Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

Like last weekend, there's no service on the Piccadilly line from
Hammersmith to either Osterley or Uxbridge.

Whilst Picc trains are running between Osterley to Heathrow, LU is
thankfully not expecting passengers to or from Heathrow to change from
tube train to replacement bus then back onto tube train, and so are
running fast replacement bus services to Heathrow.

(The days of being able to jump on HEx with an LU ticket or Oyster in
these situations are sadly no more - one assumes TfL turned down HEx's
kind request to cross their palm with silver, or platinum more like.)

It's how they're doing this bustitution that's interesting, as it
depends on which direction you're travelling in:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/track.aspx?offset=weekend

Heading *to Heathrow*, the express buses to the airport (service B to
T1&3, service C to T4 and T5) leave from Gunnersbury station. Those
turfed off the Piccadilly at Hammersmith should find an easy
cross-platform interchange to the District to get to Gunnersbury.

Meanwhile *from Heathrow* the express buses (both service B and C)
terminate at Hammersmith, not Gunnersbury.

Presumably this separation of departure and arrival points works better
from the perspective of dealing with expected passenger volumes, and the
road congestion implications of having lots of buses trying to set down
and then pick up passengers. I'm guessing there might be a queue of
buses somewhere near Gunnersbury that have just come from dropping pax
off at Hammersmith, and can be made to wait so as to regulate the
services heading back to Heathrow.

That said, I imagine that however good the information given at the
Heathrow tube stations, there'll still be a fair number of air arrivees
getting as far as Osterley on the tube before then finding themselves
and their baggage on the all-stations bustitution service A from
Osterley, which runs to Turnham Green (thence District line to get
further east into town).

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

"Mizter T" wrote

That said, I imagine that however good the information given at the
Heathrow tube stations, there'll still be a fair number of air arrivees
getting as far as Osterley on the tube before then finding themselves and
their baggage on the all-stations bustitution service A from Osterley,
which runs to Turnham Green (thence District line to get further east into
town).

They've thought of this. Replacement bus service B (eastbound) from
Terminals 1&3 to Hammersmith will call at Osterley, so any passengers who
join the Piccadilly Line at Heathrow won't have to endure the all-stations
bus at Osterley.

Peter

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:34:15 +0000
Mizter T wrote:
(The days of being able to jump on HEx with an LU ticket or Oyster in
these situations are sadly no more - one assumes TfL turned down HEx's
kind request to cross their palm with silver, or platinum more like.)

What goes around will come around - when Crossrail is up and running the
Heathrow Express business model will be a dead duck and I suspect they know
it so they're making hay while the sun still shines.

--
Spud

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 18:05:56 on Fri, 15 Nov
2013, d remarked:
when Crossrail is up and running the

Heathrow Express business model will be a dead duck

Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and accepts
Travelcards/Oyster.

Otherwise it's just as lame as Heathrow Connect today for international
travellers.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 15/11/2013 18:31, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:05:56 on Fri, 15 Nov
2013, d remarked:
when Crossrail is up and running the

Heathrow Express business model will be a dead duck

Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and accepts
Travelcards/Oyster.

Otherwise it's just as lame as Heathrow Connect today for international
travellers.

Regarding your non-stop point - not at all. Even if Crossrail stops at
all six stations between Paddington and Heathrow it'll still be easier
to just stay on board (coming from points east) compared to changing at
Padd for a fast HEx train.

Re fares - that's yet to be revealed (or indeed finalised), and
hopefully journeys to Heathrow will be treated the same as if it was any
other zone 6 station. But I dare say that even if a small premium was
payable, that wouldn't be a significant deterrence to a fair number of
travellers as it could be easily be collected by Oyster / smartcard /
contactless payment card. (Wouldn't be seamless for those on paper
Travelcards though.)

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 18:49:40 on Fri, 15 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
when Crossrail is up and running the
Heathrow Express business model will be a dead duck

Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and accepts
Travelcards/Oyster.

Otherwise it's just as lame as Heathrow Connect today for international
travellers.

Regarding your non-stop point - not at all. Even if Crossrail stops at
all six stations between Paddington and Heathrow it'll still be easier
to just stay on board (coming from points east) compared to changing at
Padd for a fast HEx train.

Only if your journey starts in the Crossrail corridor.

If you are a foreign businessman or tourist and have arrived at Heathrow
then the only sane choice based on experience of similar scenarios
worldwide is to get the Airport Express to wherever it goes, and take
your chances onward from there. After all, it's only supposed to be a
taxi-replacement, not an alternative for any other form of public
transport.

Re fares - that's yet to be revealed (or indeed finalised), and
hopefully journeys to Heathrow will be treated the same as if it was
any other zone 6 station. But I dare say that even if a small premium
was payable, that wouldn't be a significant deterrence to a fair number
of travellers as it could be easily be collected by Oyster / smartcard
/ contactless payment card. (Wouldn't be seamless for those on paper
Travelcards though.)

But not those "never been to London, have no idea what the fares
structure is" travellers the Express is targeted at.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:49:40 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:


Not sure what the premium will be but I'd not be surprised if it is
similar to Heathow Connect. Given the way HAL operate the Heathrow
stations I think it will be a struggle to make Travelcard and / or
Oyster PAYG work in any sort of sensible way. I expect a lot of work
will be required to get to a workable solution.

Make it work like Madrid

Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium" ticket
buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and that's
with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

tim

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 22:08:15 on Fri, 15
Nov 2013, tim...... remarked:
Make it work like Madrid

Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium"
ticket buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and
that's with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow in
the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to
another free of charge.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:08:15 on Fri, 15 Nov
2013, tim...... remarked:
Make it work like Madrid

Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium"
ticket buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and
that's with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow in
the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:31:01 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and
accepts
Travelcards/Oyster.

Paddington is in the middle of nowhere in London terms, hence why the
Picc Line is often still a viable choice. Crossrail will serve more
useful places more quickly.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:31:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and accepts
Travelcards/Oyster.

Paddington is in the middle of nowhere in London terms, hence why the
Picc Line is often still a viable choice. Crossrail will serve more
useful places more quickly.

I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax to
and from Heathrow than HEx. The trains are much more frequent and are often
standing-room only by the time they leave T123. Although they're slower,
the more frequent service and services to a dozen or more useful central
London stations, not to mention lower fares, makes them much the better
choice for most people. And even if the Picc doesn't go directly to where
people want to go, it has excellent connections to other Tube lines, unlike
HEx.

Crossrail will be a cross between the Picc and Hex -- prices, schedules,
useful direct destinations and journey times between them.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow in
the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at
23:48:22 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and
accepts Travelcards/Oyster.

Paddington is in the middle of nowhere in London terms, hence why the
Picc Line is often still a viable choice. Crossrail will serve more
useful places more quickly.

But Heathrow Express will still be attractive to visitors for all the
reasons I've mentioned earlier in the thread.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message

, at 18:05:11 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax to
and from Heathrow than HEx.

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

Not really - HEx is still half the price of a taxi unless you share a
cab. I got it last week for the first time in a while and was surprised
to find the fare as high as £20 (for some reason I had £14 one way in
my mind). But isn't a taxi to Westminster about £40 at least?

I would have got Connect or the Piccadeilly line otherwise but as
others note Paddington is not a great place anyway. To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

E.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message 2013111610301056084-nospam@nospamcom, at 10:30:10 on Sat,
16 Nov 2013, eastender remarked:
HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who
had it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition
with any other rail-based modes.

Not really - HEx is still half the price of a taxi unless you share a
cab. I got it last week for the first time in a while and was surprised
to find the fare as high as £20 (for some reason I had £14 one way in
my mind). But isn't a taxi to Westminster about £40 at least?

How they choose to set the fare has little to do with the business
objective, which was entirely about replacing taxis (in the vicinity of
Heathrow towards London; taxis onward from Paddington are not affected).
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 22:08:15 +0100, tim...... wrote:
Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium" ticket
buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and that's
with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals that
are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half an hour
or something.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 16/11/2013 11:18, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:30:10 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

Or via Whitechapel - 1 change to the H&C. Slow but a lot less palaver.

Alternatively I'd have gone to Warren St on the tube and then jumped
on a 27 or 205 bus (assuming you have a Travelcard rather than PAYG).

All depends on how laden down with bags you are I guess.

Why the 27 or 205 - neither of them goes to Dalston Junction?

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:49:52 +0000, David Walters
wrote:
Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals
that
are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half an
hour
or something.

Which would be used as free ways around paying the extra! Didn't get
on at Heathrow mate!
I don't see why Oyster should have any problems with a higher non
zonal fare, in any case. It manages Watford Junction OK, which is in
exactly that situation, and Connect doesn't seem to have a massive
issue with people not paying the extra bit when using a Travelcard as
far as Hayes.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:30:10 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

Not really - HEx is still half the price of a taxi unless you share a
cab. I got it last week for the first time in a while and was surprised
to find the fare as high as £20 (for some reason I had £14 one way in
my mind). But isn't a taxi to Westminster about £40 at least?

I would have got Connect or the Piccadeilly line otherwise but as
others note Paddington is not a great place anyway. To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

I wonder how that compared with Picc to Green Park, then Vic to H&I,
then Overground? The latter would certainly be much cheaper, but
would it be much longer? According to the TfL Journey Planner, it
would only be six minutes longer.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 18:05:11 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax to
and from Heathrow than HEx.

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:01:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow in
the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 16/11/2013 12:43, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:40:46 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 16/11/2013 11:18, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:30:10 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

Or via Whitechapel - 1 change to the H&C. Slow but a lot less palaver.

Alternatively I'd have gone to Warren St on the tube and then jumped
on a 27 or 205 bus (assuming you have a Travelcard rather than PAYG).

All depends on how laden down with bags you are I guess.

Why the 27 or 205 - neither of them goes to Dalston Junction?

I did say go to Warren St *on the tube* and change to these buses.
Getting off the Vic Line to street is via two escalators and no steps.
The bus stop is just round the corner and you're dropped right at
Paddington Praed St and avoid all the faff with stairs and narrow
corridors or long walks at Paddington Circle Line or Paddington H&C.

It all depends on how someone weighs the time and convenience factors.
The bus can be fairly quick along the Marylebone Rd IME.

Wasn't he going TO Dalston Junction and not from it?

Of course, it works just as well in reverse although personally I'd have
thought H&C to Whitechapel and then Overground is probably the best
route (as has previously been mentioned)

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 2013-11-16 11:18:43 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Or via Whitechapel - 1 change to the H&C. Slow but a lot less palaver.

I always forget about that. Anyway, Circle line came first at Edg Rd -
it was freezing and I had no coat.


Alternatively I'd have gone to Warren St on the tube and then jumped
on a 27 or 205 bus (assuming you have a Travelcard rather than PAYG).

Presume that's for going to Paddington or from Paddington to Warren
Street. If I had lots of time i suppose the 205 to Old Street and then
76 almost to my door would do.

E.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:01:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4
(etc)
The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow
in the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to
another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

What route would they take? A long way round the outside of the airport I
would have thought.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 18:05:11 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax
to and from Heathrow than HEx.

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

Precisely. They exploit ignorance for their private profit. Ugly.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:24:37 -0600,
wrote:
Precisely. They exploit ignorance for their private profit. Ugly.

And a tourist tax, as their ticket office won't issue prebooked pick
ups nor through tickets. As they operate on Network Rail metals this
should IMO have been forced on them.

And yes, the HEx touts hack me off. At least in most other
countries transport touts are not officially condoned by the airport
and are kept out of the way.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:24:37 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:01:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4
(etc)
The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow
in the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to
another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

What route would they take? A long way round the outside of the airport I
would have thought.

They could go either through the central area, or round the perimeter
road (3.9 miles). For a landside transfer, the latter is probably
better. Bing reckons it's an 11 minute drive; Google obviously drives
faster, and estimates nine minutes. Let's average it at 10 minutes.
Assuming the buses ran fairly frequently, that would beat the two
trains quite easily.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 12:25:29 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner remarked:
Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.

Are the buses actually slower to get between T4 and T5? You'd need
two Heathrow trains to do it, and they're only 4tpi. The bus route is
fairly direct using the tunnel.

Are landside buses allowed to use the airside tunnel?

And last time I took the airside bus from T4, it was about a 15 minute
walk from the gate. The official time to allow airside for T4-T5 is 105
minutes!! Even more than the 90 minutes T4-T123.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 10:49:52 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2013, David Walters remarked:
Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium" ticket
buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and that's
with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals that
are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half an hour
or something.

That's similar to what they do at Geneva. A free public transport ticket
available only airside, valid for 80 minutes [to the city, rather than
other terminals].
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at
12:02:55 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals
that are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half
an hour or something.

Which would be used as free ways around paying the extra! Didn't get
on at Heathrow mate!

Difficult if only issued airside.

I don't see why Oyster should have any problems with a higher non zonal
fare, in any case. It manages Watford Junction OK, which is in exactly
that situation,

I think they are about to (or maybe have) run out of "extra Zones" that
the Oyster system can cope with. Not 640k RAM, or 4 billion IPv4
addresses this time, but "only ?16 zones".
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 12:23:35 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner remarked:

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

A small amount of mission creep perhaps, but the people taking up that
offer are probably unaware of the existence of either HC or the tube.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at
13:56:57 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
At least in most other countries transport touts are not officially
condoned by the airport and are kept out of the way.

I'm struggling to think of many International airports I've visited that
weren't infested with taxi touts.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:01:17 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
Are landside buses allowed to use the airside tunnel?

Don't think so.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:06:12 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
Difficult if only issued airside.

Collect one airside. Buy Travelcard from Tube ticket office. Sneak
through barriers using free ticket. Use Travelcard from Hayes.

Not hard.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 16/11/2013 13:56, Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:24:37 -0600, wrote:
Precisely. They exploit ignorance for their private profit. Ugly.

And a tourist tax, as their ticket office won't issue prebooked pick ups
nor through tickets. As they operate on Network Rail metals this should
IMO have been forced on them.
And yes, the HEx touts hack me off. At least in most other countries
transport touts are not officially condoned by the airport and are kept
out of the way.
Neil

I thought a big chunk of the HEx route wasn't owned by Network Rail?

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at
14:21:02 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Difficult if only issued airside.

Collect one airside. Buy Travelcard from Tube ticket office. Sneak
through barriers using free ticket. Use Travelcard from Hayes.
Not hard.

But not likely to be used enough to be a worry. A ticket check on
leaving Heathrow would catch a lot of the offenders.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at 14:26:10 on Sat, 16 Nov
2013, Someone Somewhere remarked:
I thought a big chunk of the HEx route wasn't owned by Network Rail?

Currently the bit from Airport Junction to the airport is owned by the
airport (not surprising since they paid for it to be built, something
British Rail and successors failed to do). That'll be why the rules for
Heathrow Connect fares have a discontinuity at Hayes.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:29:25 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
But not likely to be used enough to be a worry. A ticket check on
leaving Heathrow would catch a lot of the offenders.

True. But then no need for any barriers.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:26:10 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote:
I thought a big chunk of the HEx route wasn't owned by Network Rail?

It isn't. But it should have been a case of "you aren't getting past
Hayes unless you join ATOC and play nicely", IMO.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.