"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
...
"Phil" wrote

But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Today's news gave a new reason for this

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-petrol-glitch

I can't see that being a reason why people don't use them. No-one would
except that to be the result.

I don't use them because I can't be sure that the damned thing is going to
give me a receipt. Even if it doesn't tell you beforehand that it is out of
paper (ISTR that they do that) the process may fail at the point of receipt
production - and I have had that happen during one of the very limited
occasions where I had to use an automatic pump, so it isn't just me being
paranoid about an unlikely occurrence

tim

wrote in message ...
On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on
the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for
the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator

The December 2012 press release says:

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be
used."

That doesn't happen everywhere. I have a contactless card for transport
from another city, which I keep with my Oyster. Some readers on the tube
and bus accept the Oyster with no problem/question, while others will
indicate that there are two cards.

I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb
prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or irises.
Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts.

I can just see the DM headlines now

tim

wrote in message ...
On 02/01/2014 21:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries would
be multi-lingual.

Indeed, I always prefer using TVMs, as compared to standing in queue --
it's quicker, you don't have to deal with surly staff and you don't have
to put up with the next person in front of you in queue with a large or
confusing transaction or some other issue.

Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes,
but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems
when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption
of the EMV standard.)

Problem with using a UK debit card abroad is that the bank takes a
percentage on each transaction. At least that is the way it is with my
bank.

yes mine's started doing that 2.75% added on the top of a less than stellar
exchange rate

(Apparently) some are even worse, applying a 1 (or even 2) pound per
transaction minimum to this charge. That can make a 60 bus fare flipping
expensive!

tim

In message , at 09:09:21 on Sun, 5 Jan
2014, tim...... remarked:
But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Today's news gave a new reason for this

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-petrol-glitch

I can't see that being a reason why people don't use them. No-one
would except that to be the result.

I don't use them because I can't be sure that the damned thing is going
to give me a receipt. Even if it doesn't tell you beforehand that it
is out of paper (ISTR that they do that) the process may fail at the
point of receipt production - and I have had that happen during one of
the very limited occasions where I had to use an automatic pump, so it
isn't just me being paranoid about an unlikely occurrence

iirc Tesco pumps warn you in advance that they are out of paper, but
ASDA ones simply fail to produce a receipt.
--
Roland Perry

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...
In message , tim......
writes

I can't see that being a reason why people don't use them. No-one would
except that to be the result.

I don't use them because I can't be sure that the damned thing is going to
give me a receipt. Even if it doesn't tell you beforehand that it is out
of paper (ISTR that they do that) the process may fail at the point of
receipt production - and I have had that happen during one of the very
limited occasions where I had to use an automatic pump, so it isn't just
me being paranoid about an unlikely occurrence

I've had that happen too, and then one of the staff explained to me that
you can go to any other pump on the site and use the 're-print receipt'
facility and get your receipt, even if the pump is nominally out of
service. It's always worked for me since.

Of course not many people know this.

when I went into the "shop" to complain I got told "tough - nothing you can
do about it now!"

this wasn't in the UK

tim

"tim......" wrote

especially foreigners

I wouldn't be so sure.

Well I'll ask a bunch of then when I go back to the office tomorrow :-)

I can't be sure that it isn't my lack of observation, but I haven't seen
any
opportunities to pay with a contactless card here, so I'm not expecting a
large positive response

I noticed that Aldi, Lidl and M&S have rolled it out.

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/companies...348506.article

And on being reminded, I noticed the change in Waitrose too.

http://www.theukcardsassociation.org...ontactless.asp
http://www.contactless.info/updateonukrollout.asp

I first used a contactless card (MC credit) to buy a coffee at the RFH, but
I don't see the few seconds saved as of any significance. It might be of
some benefit when a whole host of people were buying the same thing and
nothing else.

--
Mike D

In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying
for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are
tilting at windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified"
individuals who don't go through the self service passport check
(at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how
"frightened" the average person is of such technology

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

but not withing the timetable that Boris wants to close the ticket
offices IMHO

It's still some time till his 2015 deadline in terms of electronic
payment development timescales.

but nowhere near enought time for everybody to get used to using them
especially foreigners

I wouldn't be so sure.

Well I'll ask a bunch of then when I go back to the office tomorrow :-)

I can't be sure that it isn't my lack of observation, but I haven't
seen any opportunities to pay with a contactless card here, so I'm
not expecting a large positive response

And it isn't just foreigners. Not all UK banks have started issuing
the cards. Mine isn't and even if they start next week the one in my
wallet doesn't expire until 07/15! (Not a problem for me as I have
an "occasional use" Oyster)

My point was that some new technology developments can be adapted
surprisingly fast.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:20:14 -0000, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:
I first used a contactless card (MC credit) to buy a coffee at the
RFH, but
I don't see the few seconds saved as of any significance. It might
be of
some benefit when a whole host of people were buying the same thing
and
nothing else.

It is about volume - shop in ALDI and see how fast their checkout
operators are and you will see why it is significant.

Bus travel, where the bus is delayed while a queue of people pay, is
also a significant application.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote

I don't see the few seconds saved as of any significance. It might
be of some benefit when a whole host of people were buying the same thing
and nothing else.

It is about volume - shop in ALDI and see how fast their checkout
operators are and you will see why it is significant.


They waste a few seconds by being slow to press the "customer does not
require cashback" key so I think they are much the same as other
supermarkets though fewer coupons and car park tickets, and no loyalty cards
do help.

I recall from way back a planning document that gave the average time to pay
in cash and by card - are there more recent statistics ?

Bus travel, where the bus is delayed while a queue of people pay, is
also a significant application.

Agreed, but that exactly matches my 'buying the same thing' remark.


--
Mike D

In message , at 14:19:32 on Mon, 6 Jan
2014, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:
It is about volume - shop in ALDI and see how fast their checkout
operators are and you will see why it is significant.

They waste a few seconds by being slow to press the "customer does not
require cashback" key so I think they are much the same as other
supermarkets though fewer coupons and car park tickets, and no loyalty
cards do help.

One of the main ways they are quicker is by refraining from extended
chats with customers about their mutual social lives.

Round here Waitrose is one of the worst where it seems every customer is
a long lost friend of the cashier and they absolutely *have* to catch up
with the local gossip.

I was quite taken aback a couple of weeks ago at Aldi when a checkout
operator spoke for the first time I can recall, and asked me if I was
"going to be watching the game" later that evening. I muttered something
about not being that interested in cricket (the test match series being
the only 'game' I knew taking place at the time) and left.
--
Roland Perry