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Asian chappie in the queue in front of me took three Oyster cards up to the
counter and after inserting his credit card in the reader and signing lots of bits of paper, walked away without them, before waiting to one of the terminals with his family (I assume to fly home). I guess that he was getting a refund. I didn't know you could do that at a station. OTOH there's sign saying "drop them in this box and the remaining credit will go to charity" - the railway children fund (or similar) Oh and this week's entry in the most pointless holiday snap competition is "Here's a picture of the (large) group of us standing in the queue at the underground station" WTF! (not the Asian chappie, a bunch of Europeans) Tim |
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In message , at 22:02:14 on
Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Oh and this week's entry in the most pointless holiday snap competition is "Here's a picture of the (large) group of us standing in the queue at the underground station" WTF! (not the Asian chappie, a bunch of Europeans) All part of that iconic LUL experience. You may mock but queues at a LU ticket office will be a historic sight within 18 months or so. Anyone who wants to capture a bit of Underground life should try and get a few snaps of people using ticket offices before they disappear and get replaced by coffee bars and Amazon lockers. It's a genuine bit of Underground and London history and blink and it'll be gone. The other aspect is the variation in the design of ticket offices (less than there used to be but still there in places). I recognise that the queues might be at ticket machines instead but it's not the same thing. If you go to Kings Cross or Euston you'll see there's no "might" about it, even now. (And that's just two I use myself). -- Roland Perry |
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In message , at 09:06:52 on
Thu, 2 Jan 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: I recognise that the queues might be at ticket machines instead but it's not the same thing. If you go to Kings Cross or Euston you'll see there's no "might" about it, even now. (And that's just two I use myself). Yes I know that Roland. However I was talking about the future and at this point in time we cannot be certain what queue lengths will be like at some point in 2015. Several things may change by then which might reduce queue lengths - that's what TfL must be hoping for. I hope TfL has done some modelling of the situation, rather than just hoping for the best! -- Roland Perry |
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"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:58:20 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:02:14 on Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: Oh and this week's entry in the most pointless holiday snap competition is "Here's a picture of the (large) group of us standing in the queue at the underground station" WTF! (not the Asian chappie, a bunch of Europeans) All part of that iconic LUL experience. You may mock but queues at a LU ticket office will be a historic sight within 18 months or so. Anyone who wants to capture a bit of Underground life should try and get a few snaps of people using ticket offices before they disappear and get replaced by coffee bars and Amazon lockers. It's a genuine bit of Underground and London history and blink and it'll be gone. The other aspect is the variation in the design of ticket offices (less than there used to be but still there in places). I recognise that the queues might be at ticket machines instead but it's not the same thing. If you go to Kings Cross or Euston you'll see there's no "might" about it, even now. (And that's just two I use myself). Yes I know that Roland. However I was talking about the future and at this point in time we cannot be certain what queue lengths will be like at some point in 2015. Several things may change by then which might reduce queue lengths - that's what TfL must be hoping for. If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology tim -- Paul C |
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On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: [snip] If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.) |
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Mizter T writes:
On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: [snip] If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.) Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now. But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance. Have yet to see anyone else use a pay wave card in my local co-op though. Phil |
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On 02/01/2014 19:02, Phil wrote: Mizter T writes: On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: [snip] If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.) Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now. British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions - I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't issued with chips until a later date). But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance. Have yet to see anyone else use a pay wave card in my local co-op though. Possible that availability of contactless card payment on public transport might drive awareness and usage elsewhere (I've certainly read the industry hopes as much). |
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On 02/01/2014 20:05, Mizter T wrote: They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.) Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now. British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions - I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't issued with chips until a later date). From a better source - the then IPS (now HM Passport Office): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118598/biometric-passports-readers.pdf ---quote--- The first e-passport was issued by our central production facility on the 6th March 2006. These e-passports introduced a new design with additional security features, including a chip with the holder’s facial biometric. The passport showed the personal details at the back page with the chip and antenna visible on observation page. They were introduced gradually throughout 2006. This mirrored the introduction of e-passports in over 40 other countries and ensured the UK remained within the US visa waiver scheme. ---/quote--- So another three years till non-chipped British passports expire. (One of them being mine!) |
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On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one. It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I recall arriving at the RER station in Charles de Gaulle a few years ago and finding that the ticket machines accepted neither UK credit cards nor Euro notes. I was able to avoid the extremely long queue only by being able to feed in at least two dozen small coins (which fortunately I had left over from a previous trip). You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Well my experience of these things at airports is that they only recognise my face or iris about one time out of three, and that if it fails I have to queue up for the manned barrier anyway after a few minutes, so that on average there is little or no time saving. It's nothing to do with "fright": if the technology gets better maybe more of us will use them. I'm told that the new-fangled facial recognition systems are slightly better than the old iris scanners, but my experience has not provided me with much evidence of that so far. -- Clive Page |
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On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote: On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one. It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I recall arriving at the RER station in Charles de Gaulle a few years ago and finding that the ticket machines accepted neither UK credit cards nor Euro notes. I was able to avoid the extremely long queue only by being able to feed in at least two dozen small coins (which fortunately I had left over from a previous trip). Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes, but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption of the EMV standard.) |
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wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. but not withing the timetable that Boris wants to close the ticket offices IMHO tim |
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"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On 02/01/2014 19:02, Phil wrote: Mizter T writes: On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: [snip] If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.) Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now. British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British passports expire actually it would be 2 years and 11 months if you renewed a pp with 9 months still to go in March 2006 But it's even worse that that because whilst they started to introduce then in March they didn't issue 100% as chipped for sever months Mine issued in May 2006 (expires in Nov) doesn't have a chip tim |
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"Clive Page" wrote in message ... On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one. It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I recall arriving at the RER station in Charles de Gaulle a few years ago and finding that the ticket machines accepted neither UK credit cards nor Euro notes. I was able to avoid the extremely long queue only by being able to feed in at least two dozen small coins (which fortunately I had left over from a previous trip). You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Well my experience of these things at airports is that they only recognise my face or iris about one time out of three, and that if it fails I have to queue up for the manned barrier anyway after a few minutes, so that on average there is little or no time saving. Really? Whenever I watch the "helpers" on the self service q they seem to go out of their way not to reject people (with a valid chip pp) back into the "normal q, It's nothing to do with "fright": if the technology gets better maybe more of us will use them. I'm told that the new-fangled facial recognition systems are slightly better than the old iris scanners, but my experience has not provided me with much evidence of that so far. -- Clive Page |
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Oyster refund at LRH
In message , at 20:05:59 on Thu, 2 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked: Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now. British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions - I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't issued with chips until a later date). So less than a quarter of the old one left. -- Roland Perry |
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On 03/01/2014 10:25, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:13:42 on Thu, 2 Jan 2014, remarked: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Also built-in problems for families travelling: "Like Oyster, you can only pay for one person per journey with a contactless payment card; if you are travelling in a group, each person will have to use a separate contactless payment card or other method of payment." However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or they've just stopped mentioning it. How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation. Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation), for example. Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]: "From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams." I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my "Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the stored amount? "the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" - really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when presented to an Oyster validator (though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon - when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?). |
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On 03/01/2014 10:27, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 20:05:59 on Thu, 2 Jan 2014, Mizter T remarked: Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now. British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions - I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't issued with chips until a later date). So less than a quarter of the old one left. See my follow-up post - non-chipped continued to be issued until end of 2006 - but my point was in response to "Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now" - I'd say there'd be quite a few. |
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In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked: However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or they've just stopped mentioning it. How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation. Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation), for example. Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube tickets] are very likely to have. Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]: "From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams." I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my "Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the stored amount? "the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" - really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when presented to an Oyster validator The December 2012 press release says: "If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used." (though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet. Also a slap in the face for early adopters. - when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?). Later this year. [1] There's clearly a demand for "Europe compatible" prepay cards in the USA, as they are on sale at airports there. -- Roland Perry |
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On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014, Mizter T remarked: However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or they've just stopped mentioning it. How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation. Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation), for example. Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube tickets] are very likely to have. You ignored my point, which is that prepaid cards probably won't have the contactless facility anyway. Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]: "From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams." I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my "Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the stored amount? "the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" - really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when presented to an Oyster validator The December 2012 press release says: "If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used." That's talking about (say) a wallet with both an Oyster card and a contactless bank card in it - not the OnePulse card, which was specifically designed so that the EMV contactless and Oyster MiFare elements didn't interfere with each other. I've read nothing whatsoever about anyone having problems with a OnePulse card in the past year that contactless bank card payments have been available on the buses. (though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet. Not if your contactless credit/debit card can be used in place of an Oyster card it won't. Also a slap in the face for early adopters. Early adopters should be used to slaps in the face! - when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?). Later this year. I'd assume it won't be reissued as a OnePulse card. (I'd also guess that getting the remaining credit off it won't be as easy as you'd like... unless the Oyster part of the card just carries on working after the credit card part expires?) |
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In message , at 12:31:25 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked: However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or they've just stopped mentioning it. How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation. Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation), for example. Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube tickets] are very likely to have. You ignored my point, which is that prepaid cards probably won't have the contactless facility anyway. Until we do a market survey, we won't know. If the answer is "no they don't" then a big bit of TfL's contactless strategy goes up in smoke. "If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used." That's talking about (say) a wallet with both an Oyster card and a contactless bank card in it - not the OnePulse card, which was specifically designed so that the EMV contactless and Oyster MiFare elements didn't interfere with each other. How do they manage to make the two functions *in the same card* not interfere, when the two functions *in adjacent cards" do? Is there some sort of communication between the two halves, inside the card, to decide "who is the boss" in various situations? I've read nothing whatsoever about anyone having problems with a OnePulse card in the past year that contactless bank card payments have been available on the buses. Nor have I, but I don't expect that OnePulse and bus users overlap very much. (though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet. Not if your contactless credit/debit card can be used in place of an Oyster card it won't. The OnePulse may well *be* my contactless credit card. Also a slap in the face for early adopters. Early adopters should be used to slaps in the face! Just saying... - when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?). Later this year. I'd assume it won't be reissued as a OnePulse card. (I'd also guess that getting the remaining credit off it won't be as easy as you'd like... unless the Oyster part of the card just carries on working after the credit card part expires?) Dunno. Last time it was renewed it took a typical half-hour phone call to the 'help' line to resolve transferring the credit. I didn't think to try using the card as an "only an Oyster". But this time perhaps I will. Doesn't solve the card-bloat issue though. -- Roland Perry |
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wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. but not withing the timetable that Boris wants to close the ticket offices IMHO It's still some time till his 2015 deadline in terms of electronic payment development timescales. but nowhere near enought time for everybody to get used to using them especially foreigners tim -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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In article ,
(tim......) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. but not withing the timetable that Boris wants to close the ticket offices IMHO It's still some time till his 2015 deadline in terms of electronic payment development timescales. but nowhere near enought time for everybody to get used to using them especially foreigners I wouldn't be so sure. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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"Phil" wrote
But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance. Today's news gave a new reason for this http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-petrol-glitch NatWest and Royal Bank of Scotland customers have become the victims of another technical glitch that has resulted in many being unable to pay for fuel at Tesco's petrol stations. Reports of the problems spread on social media after customers' credit cards were declined when they tried to pay for fuel. The problem appeared to be limited to Tesco's pay-at-pump transactions, which allow customers to pay for petrol without having to go into the shop. Users inputting the correct pin three times found the payment denied and their cards locked. The terminals require users to put their cards into the machine before they fill up their vehicle. An RBS spokesman blamed Tesco for yesterday's problems, and confirmed that all the bank's systems were operating normally. Tesco said: "We are investigating reports of problems affecting some of our pay-at-pump services. We apologise to our customers for any inconvenience caused." -- Mike D |
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On 04/01/2014 01:01, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
"Phil" wrote But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance. Today's news gave a new reason for this http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-petrol-glitch But that's probably not the only reason. I like to get a paper record for every credit card transaction, so I can check my bill every month. I used to use the "pay at pump" machines routinely but stopped after twice finding at the end that the machine could not produce a receipt. If the machine had been programmed properly to tell me this at the outset that it was out of paper I could have avoided the pump payment option. It often doesn't take much longer to pay at the kiosk, and for me it's worth the extra few seconds to be sure that I get a paper record of every transaction. I don't understand how companies can introduce new technology with so little appreciation of the need for a resilient user-interface and proper fall-back systems. At one petrol station in France the machine told me at the end that it had run out of paper, but that I could insert my card into any other free machine on the forecourt to get my receipt. I did that, and it worked fine. I've never seen that at the pay-at-pump machines in the UK. A year or so back my nearest petrol station introduced fancy new pay-at-pump machines which hardly anybody used, as far as I could see, and now I see that they have all been taken away. It's easy to see why. -- Clive Page |
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On 03/01/2014 10:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:13:42 on Thu, 2 Jan 2014, remarked: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Also built-in problems for families travelling: "Like Oyster, you can only pay for one person per journey with a contactless payment card; if you are travelling in a group, each person will have to use a separate contactless payment card or other method of payment." However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or they've just stopped mentioning it. Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]: her "From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams." I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my "Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the stored amount? I thought that they were doing a pilot scheme first, before it came into service on other forms of transport, besides the bus. Will they allow capping now? |
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In message , at 13:38:52 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
" remarked: Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]: "From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams." I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my "Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the stored amount? I thought that they were doing a pilot scheme first, before it came into service on other forms of transport, besides the bus. Indeed, and when the bus-only pilot was announced in Dec 2012 (as quoted from above) the wider roll-out was said to be 'from the end of 2013'. Will they allow capping now? I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec 2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster refund at LRH
On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014, Mizter T remarked: However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or they've just stopped mentioning it. How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation. Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation), for example. Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube tickets] are very likely to have. Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]: "From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams." I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my "Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the stored amount? "the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" - really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when presented to an Oyster validator The December 2012 press release says: "If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used." That doesn't happen everywhere. I have a contactless card for transport from another city, which I keep with my Oyster. Some readers on the tube and bus accept the Oyster with no problem/question, while others will indicate that there are two cards. I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or irises. Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts. The latter would eliminate the need for gates and their moving parts. |
Oyster refund at LRH
On 04/01/2014 13:46, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:38:52 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014, " remarked: I thought that they were doing a pilot scheme first, before it came into service on other forms of transport, besides the bus. Indeed, and when the bus-only pilot was announced in Dec 2012 (as quoted from above) the wider roll-out was said to be 'from the end of 2013'. It's got delayed. Better that than rolling it out broken. Will they allow capping now? I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec 2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/19976.aspx "early 2014" |
Oyster refund at LRH
In message , at 14:02:16 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked: I thought that they were doing a pilot scheme first, before it came into service on other forms of transport, besides the bus. Indeed, and when the bus-only pilot was announced in Dec 2012 (as quoted from above) the wider roll-out was said to be 'from the end of 2013'. It's got delayed. Better that than rolling it out broken. Will they allow capping now? I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec 2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/19976.aspx "early 2014" Thanks for the link. So it's slipped from "everyone late 2013" to "a small pilot early 2014". Just checking! -- Roland Perry |
Oyster refund at LRH
On 04/01/2014 14:17, Roland Perry wrote: I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec 2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/19976.aspx "early 2014" Thanks for the link. So it's slipped from "everyone late 2013" to "a small pilot early 2014". Just checking! No. "Early 2014" is the full rollout. The pilot started in December, and it doesn't seem like a "small pilot" to me: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28751.aspx Feel free to misrepresent things though. |
Oyster refund at LRH
In message , at 14:39:40 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked: The pilot started in December, and it doesn't seem like a "small pilot" to me: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28751.aspx Unhelpfully, there's no date on that announcement (and yes, it does seem to be a small pilot as someone is hand-checking whether the applicants use their Oyster enough already). But if we can *all* use contactless from "early 2014", then I look forward to an announcement (undated or otherwise) letting us know from when! At least it's "early 2014", rather than "early Spring" which is undoubtedly later. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster refund at LRH
On 04/01/2014 14:48, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 14:39:40 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014, Mizter T remarked: The pilot started in December, and it doesn't seem like a "small pilot" to me: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28751.aspx Unhelpfully, there's no date on that announcement (and yes, it does seem to be a small pilot as someone is hand-checking whether the applicants use their Oyster enough already). Paul C posted about it here on utl on 22 November - thread subject is "Take part in TfL's trial of contactless bank cards on rail modes": https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/uk.transport.london/TPI6o0Pq2sY/OBztk4vCg5kJ The pilot is being prominently promoted on the front page of TfL's website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/ But I'll take your word on it that it's a small pilot. But if we can *all* use contactless from "early 2014", then I look forward to an announcement (undated or otherwise) letting us know from when! At least it's "early 2014", rather than "early Spring" which is undoubtedly later. Well, if one splits a year up into three equal chunks of early, middle and late, then I guess it could be any time in the first four months. |
Oyster refund at LRH
In message , at 15:16:46 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked: The pilot is being prominently promoted on the front page of TfL's website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/ But I'll take your word on it that it's a small pilot. "Apply now to participate in our contactless payment pilot - the number of places available is limited." And as they only want people who travel frequently, but use PAYG, and no Travelcards or discounts available, that's already whittled it down quite a bit. But if we can *all* use contactless from "early 2014", then I look forward to an announcement (undated or otherwise) letting us know from when! At least it's "early 2014", rather than "early Spring" which is undoubtedly later. Well, if one splits a year up into three equal chunks of early, middle and late, then I guess it could be any time in the first four months. One things certain, however you split it up they missed "late 2013". And if it's as neatly divided as you say, I'm sure you can recall many instances of when (eg) "Late 2013" meant September. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster refund at LRH
On 02/01/2014 21:11, Mizter T wrote:
On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote: On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one. It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries would be multi-lingual. Indeed, I always prefer using TVMs, as compared to standing in queue -- it's quicker, you don't have to deal with surly staff and you don't have to put up with the next person in front of you in queue with a large or confusing transaction or some other issue. Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes, but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption of the EMV standard.) Problem with using a UK debit card abroad is that the bank takes a percentage on each transaction. At least that is the way it is with my bank. |
Oyster refund at LRH
In message , at 18:15:52 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
" remarked: It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries would be multi-lingual. It's not so much a language problem as needing local coinage or a local cash-card (and I don't mean a local VISA/Barclaycard). Eventually things tend to get better (but sometimes revert like accepting notes and then stopping it again) although local equivalents of Oyster will often have a steep learning curve. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster refund at LRH
wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim......) wrote: If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at windmills You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average person is of such technology Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time. but not withing the timetable that Boris wants to close the ticket offices IMHO It's still some time till his 2015 deadline in terms of electronic payment development timescales. but nowhere near enought time for everybody to get used to using them especially foreigners I wouldn't be so sure. Well I'll ask a bunch of then when I go back to the office tomorrow :-) I can't be sure that it isn't my lack of observation, but I haven't seen any opportunities to pay with a contactless card here, so I'm not expecting a large positive response And it isn't just foreigners. Not all UK banks have started issuing the cards. Mine isn't and even if they start next week the one in my wallet doesn't expire until 07/15! (Not a problem for me as I have an "occasional use" Oyster) tim |
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