In message , at 08:29:00
on Mon, 10 Mar 2014, remarked:
Roland hasn't mentioned the bi-directional peak flows which mean none of the
present gates are bi-directional.

That seems lie a non-sequitur. Wouldn't the existence of bi-directional
peak flows (which I did mention, actually) mean they'd by default
implement bi-directional gates?

--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 11:23:37
on Mon, 10 Mar 2014, Paul Corfield remarked:
Cambridge is slightly different from many places in that it has a steady
flow of passengers all day, and a very spread out peak (so I'm not sure
quite what hours Colin is talking about, although traditionally he's
rather Kings-Cross centric in his view).

The station is very busy at some 'traditional' off-peak times like 10am
on a Saturday, and in the evening the local (mainly outflow) peak is
from perhaps 4pm-6pm, but most London commuters won't be arriving back
until well after 6pm.

Sure but that simply means that the analysis required to get a
workable gateline has to be done in more depth and with excellent
input from the operating staff who know all these nuances about demand
over a day, over a week and over the year.

You could get 98% of it from a bloke with a clipboard stood there for
a week.

You still need enough space t handle all the people, What hasn't been said
here is that the gates at the ends of platforms 3 and 6 are again being used
for exit at peak periods.

A judgement has to made about how you handle regular, predictable
demand and then what you do for events which might draw exceptional
crowds a couple of times a year.

Those sorts of events seem to get special measures anyway (eg lots of
bluebottles to handle the football hooligans) so the gateline is the
least of your worries.

Indeed.

London Underground has to deal with those variations all the
time and so do the TOCs.

I am not for a second saying it is easy just that it requires thought
and potentially a lot of money to get it right. I recall a post from
Colin (I think) that said the queues to buy tickets at Cambridge had
stretched out of the station and round to where I believe the Busway
bus stops are.

There are frequently huge queues to buy tickets at Cambridge (my
daughter has reported waiting half an hour to buy a £2 ticket from a
machine). That's partly because there are relatively few windows (and
machines) for a station with that much traffic, but also due to the
physical constraints of a listed building that's now had its
circulating area even more reduced by the barrier installation.

See the plans for the next ticket office. It will incorporate all the space
within the building between M&S and the southern end of the advance purchase
ticket office.

Back in the day there would be chaps with portable machines issuing
tickets as well as the windows/machines, and not providing that is
simply yet another way that the ToCs show lack of empathy with the
public.

There still are floorwalkers.

Meanwhile, if they had a counter with Edmondson day-returns to London
sold for cash only, the number of people they could serve would more
than double instantly!

I doubt that.

I found that staggering but I guess it illustrates the scale of demand.
It's been a long while since I visited Cambridge so I'm possibly out of
date about the stop locations.

The MGB stops have currently been moved "temporarily" about two
hundred yards further from the station, but I'm not betting they will
move back ever. I think they used to be where the rising bollards are
in this Streetview, but are now where the bus-in-the-distance with
the red rear lights is:

http://goo.gl/maps/ubaH2

You're out of date, again, Roland. The southbound stops are concentrated at
the station end of their layout at present, while the H block behind
platform 3 is completed. The stops are in all their usual positions on the
northbound side though Whippet can't seem to run the C as intended (turn
left in from Hills Road opposite Brooklands Avenue).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 10:16:49
on Mon, 10 Mar 2014, remarked:
Back in the day there would be chaps with portable machines issuing
tickets as well as the windows/machines, and not providing that is
simply yet another way that the ToCs show lack of empathy with the
public.

There still are floorwalkers.

Whenever needed, or just from time to time?

Meanwhile, if they had a counter with Edmondson day-returns to London
sold for cash only, the number of people they could serve would more
than double instantly!

I doubt that.

You are the one saying that most passengers are heading for Kings Cross.
Being able to sell them a ticket for cash in 10 seconds will vastly beat
the current rigmarole.

I found that staggering but I guess it illustrates the scale of demand.
It's been a long while since I visited Cambridge so I'm possibly out of
date about the stop locations.

The MGB stops have currently been moved "temporarily" about two
hundred yards further from the station, but I'm not betting they will
move back ever. I think they used to be where the rising bollards are
in this Streetview, but are now where the bus-in-the-distance with
the red rear lights is:

http://goo.gl/maps/ubaH2

You're out of date, again, Roland. The southbound stops are concentrated at
the station end of their layout at present,

So within a bus length of the bollards?

while the H block behind platform 3 is completed. The stops are in all
their usual positions on the northbound side

Back to within a bus length of the bollards?

--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
08:29:00 on Mon, 10 Mar 2014, remarked:
Roland hasn't mentioned the bi-directional peak flows which mean none of
the present gates are bi-directional.

That seems lie a non-sequitur. Wouldn't the existence of
bi-directional peak flows (which I did mention, actually) mean they'd
by default implement bi-directional gates?

No. Too many are needed in each direction all the time there is no point in
making some more complicated. In fact I think some or all can be but the
flows aren't strong enough in one direction to be worth making changes.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
10:16:49 on Mon, 10 Mar 2014, remarked:
Back in the day there would be chaps with portable machines issuing
tickets as well as the windows/machines, and not providing that is
simply yet another way that the ToCs show lack of empathy with the
public.

There still are floorwalkers.

Whenever needed, or just from time to time?

I think in principle whenever needed but they don't seem to manage that. FCC
staff seem to be included as well as GA's.

Meanwhile, if they had a counter with Edmondson day-returns to London
sold for cash only, the number of people they could serve would more
than double instantly!

I doubt that.

You are the one saying that most passengers are heading for Kings Cross.
Being able to sell them a ticket for cash in 10 seconds will vastly
beat the current rigmarole.

There are too many varieties even for King's Cross these days.

I found that staggering but I guess it illustrates the scale of
demand. It's been a long while since I visited Cambridge so I'm
possibly out of date about the stop locations.

The MGB stops have currently been moved "temporarily" about two
hundred yards further from the station, but I'm not betting they will
move back ever. I think they used to be where the rising bollards are
in this Streetview, but are now where the bus-in-the-distance with
the red rear lights is:

http://goo.gl/maps/ubaH2

You're out of date, again, Roland. The southbound stops are concentrated
at the station end of their layout at present,

So within a bus length of the bollards?

Not exactly. Look at the layout.

while the H block behind platform 3 is completed. The stops are in all
their usual positions on the northbound side

Back to within a bus length of the bollards?

See above.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:51:18 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
These half arsed installations don't really help the case that
installing gates is generally beneficial (carefully worded on
purpose). That ORR has insisted they're left powered down in the
peaks
shows someone got their sums and safety justification very wrong
indeed. If you can't cope with peak demand then don't bother.

To look at it differently, fare dodging in the peak is likely to be
low as most have season tickets. So this might actually make sense.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:51:18 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
These half arsed installations don't really help the case that
installing gates is generally beneficial (carefully worded on
purpose). That ORR has insisted they're left powered down in the peaks
shows someone got their sums and safety justification very wrong
indeed. If you can't cope with peak demand then don't bother.

To look at it differently, fare dodging in the peak is likely to be
low as most have season tickets. So this might actually make sense.

Not Greater Anglia's view in relation to Cambridge.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 12/03/2014 13:17, Neil Williams wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:51:18 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
These half arsed installations don't really help the case that
installing gates is generally beneficial (carefully worded on
purpose). That ORR has insisted they're left powered down in the
peaks shows someone got their sums and safety justification very
wrong indeed. If you can't cope with peak demand then don't bother.

To look at it differently, fare dodging in the peak is likely to be low
as most have season tickets. So this might actually make sense.

I appreciate we're talking about Cambridge here, but in London in the
era of Oyster that logic would not apply (many commuters use PAYG).