TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

I am not sure what people expect but how is a card reader expected to "know" which card to debit if you have a couple of contactless payment cards in your wallet? (More of an issue on buses at the moment)

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:16:23 +0200, "tim....."
wrote:
Unless you have flat fares, you either have to have a card on/card
off
system (which I suspect will drive punters away from using it) or
you still
have the "negotiate the correct fare with the driver" part of the
transaction. If you still have that wasted 45 seconds in the
transaction
the 2 second saving made from paying by contactless card is not
worth having

It is, because the thing that takes lots of time is giving change.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".

Except for ITSO concession cards. Stagecoach have implemented limited
smartcard facilities and handle bus passes automatically, as do Whippet
round here.

I though all local buses were supposed to handle oldies bus passes
electronically - it's TfL who are behind the curve on this one.

Certainly all in Kent and Hants do

tim

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:17:55 on Thu, 26 Jun
2014, tim..... remarked:
I thought Oyster card holders were issued free of charge.

you can't put you non-Oyster card in an Oyster wallet. You'd never know
which was which

Never heard of marker pens?

rubs off

tim

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

"Piatkow" wrote in message
...
I am not sure what people expect but how is a card reader expected to
"know" which card to debit if you have a couple of contactless payment
cards in your wallet? (More of an issue on buses at the moment)

It certainly seems reasonable that the reader should be "intelligent" and
look for:

Freedom pass
Oyster with relevant season
Oyster with PAYG balance

before randomly selecting debiting your CC

Even if it can't (for whatever technical reason TfL can think of) actually
intelligently charge the correct card from the above list , it should
certainly decide not to charge the CC if one of the others is found.

tim

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:16:23 +0200, "tim....."
wrote:
Unless you have flat fares, you either have to have a card on/card
off
system (which I suspect will drive punters away from using it) or
you still
have the "negotiate the correct fare with the driver" part of the
transaction. If you still have that wasted 45 seconds in the
transaction
the 2 second saving made from paying by contactless card is not
worth having

It is, because the thing that takes lots of time is giving change.

what with one of those "press the lever n time to release the correct number
of coins", coin holders?

Don't believe you

tim

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

In message , at 14:50:20 on Thu, 26
Jun 2014, tim..... remarked:
you can't put you non-Oyster card in an Oyster wallet. You'd never
know which was which

Never heard of marker pens?

rubs off

Use an indelible one.
--
Roland Perry

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

In message , at 14:54:26 on Thu, 26
Jun 2014, tim..... remarked:
I am not sure what people expect but how is a card reader expected to
"know" which card to debit if you have a couple of contactless payment
cards in your wallet? (More of an issue on buses at the moment)

It certainly seems reasonable that the reader should be "intelligent"
and look for:

Freedom pass
Oyster with relevant season
Oyster with PAYG balance

before randomly selecting debiting your CC

Even if it can't (for whatever technical reason TfL can think of)
actually intelligently charge the correct card from the above list , it
should certainly decide not to charge the CC if one of the others is
found.

It can't, and doesn't, do all that in the short interval it has
available. Even if the RFID interference between the different cards
means you could even read them individually.
--
Roland Perry

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:50:20 on Thu, 26 Jun
2014, tim..... remarked:
you can't put you non-Oyster card in an Oyster wallet. You'd never know
which was which

Never heard of marker pens?

rubs off

Use an indelible one.

still comes off (eventually)

tim

TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:54:26 on Thu, 26 Jun
2014, tim..... remarked:
I am not sure what people expect but how is a card reader expected to
"know" which card to debit if you have a couple of contactless payment
cards in your wallet? (More of an issue on buses at the moment)

It certainly seems reasonable that the reader should be "intelligent" and
look for:

Freedom pass
Oyster with relevant season
Oyster with PAYG balance

before randomly selecting debiting your CC

Even if it can't (for whatever technical reason TfL can think of) actually
intelligently charge the correct card from the above list , it should
certainly decide not to charge the CC if one of the others is found.

It can't, and doesn't,

I know that it doesn't (that's almost a given)

but I don't see that it can't.

do all that in the short interval it has available.

So extending that window is a worse use of time that having pax stand at the
barrier for 30 seconds whilst he fusses about which card to use?

(OK I know, having stood behind that person [1], it only seems like 30
seconds but is probably nearer 10)

Even if the RFID interference between the different cards means you could
even read them individually.

there must be a possible process of conversing with only one card as
otherwise we would never get the scenario of writing to the wrong card. I
can't believe this always happens because only one card "wakes up"

tim

[1] he was trying to make his "paper" ticket work the contactless pad, after
3 tries I stepped in and told him he had to put that type of ticket in the
slot, at which point he announced that he actually though he was using his
freedom pass.