On 24/06/2014 22:51, wrote:

On 24/06/2014 20:38, Mizter T wrote:
[...]
Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in
particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr
Perry).

TfL has been publicising the risk in anticipation of contactless payment
card acceptance going live across all modes (currently only available on
buses - though there's a system wide trial), however card clash has been
a possibility from the start what with people having other RFID type
cards (commonly building access cards) in their wallet / purse / pocket.

The pilot programme only covers Underground, Overground, DLR and NR
within the Oyster catchment area.


?

I didn't suggest otherwise - but the non-pilot programme will only cover
that as well.

Mizter T wrote:

On 24/06/2014 20:48, Mark Bestley wrote:
[...]
Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could
cause card clash.


This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital
occasionally.

Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the
extra holders I need now?

Plastic ticket wallets can be obtained for free from ticket offices
(whilst they're still open) and I think 'Oyster Stop' newsagents


Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

No.


That is the important point - I can live with the otherr errors and
carry on complaing but getting it wring is a problem.

Oh well it means slowing the process down so I can confirm that the
correct card has ben registered - I assume that any process is incorrect
until shown exactly what happened from long experience with computers


The current system works. How can I keep it?

The system is changing, so you can't (the world changes). Many people
will find the new system - of being able to pay by contactless payment
cards (rather than Oyster) - very convenient.

If you have a contactless payment card, when CPC payments go live across
all modes (shortly), take your Oyster card out of your card holder and
use your CPC instead.


--
Mark

On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote:
From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100
From: Wm redacted

Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk

How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs
how many have been discovered and reported ?

I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this:

http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash

= = = =

Card clash

Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could
cause card clash.

If you keep your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with your bank cards,
you might occasionally see a red light when you touch it on a card reader at
stations and on buses. The red light means you haven't paid for your journey
and if you are at a ticket gate, it may not open. This can happen even if
you've got enough pay as you go credit or a valid Travelcard on your Oyster
card because you could be experiencing 'card clash'.

Many cards are now issued with contactless technology - the same as Oyster
cards:

* Most bank, credit and charge card companies are issuing new cards
ready for contactless payments

* Many companies, educational establishments now issue contactless
cards for cashless catering or as building entry passes

If you touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader when it's in the same
wallet or purse as another contactless card, the reader may detect more than
one card. When this happens, the card reader doesn't know which one to read
so rejects them and you could experience any of the following:

* The ticket gate does not open.

* You get a red light when you touch in on a yellow card reader on a bus,
ticket gate or free-standing yellow card reader.

* On buses, where contactless payment cards are accepted, your fare could be
charged to a card that you did not intend to pay with.

To avoid card clash:

* Don't touch a wallet or purse with multiple cards on the yellow card
reader.

* Keep your Oyster card separate from your contactless payment cards only
touch the card you want to use on the reader when touching in and out.

Later in 2014, when contactless payment cards are accepted for travel on
Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in
London, one of the following could also happen:

* Your fare could be charged to a card you didn't intend to pay with.

* You could be charged two maximum fares if the card reader reads one card
when you touch in at the start of your journey and a different card at the
end when you touch out.

* Remember to separate your Oyster card from other contactless cards when
touching in and out.

[1] Oyster is a plastic smartcard which can hold pay as you go credit,
Travelcards and Bus & Tram season tickets. You can use an Oyster card to
travel on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail
services in London.


The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader)

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On 24/06/2014 20:38, Mizter T wrote:

On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote:
From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 :
Issue 04

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100
From: Wm redacted

Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless
technology risk

How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the
risks vs
how many have been discovered and reported ?

I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed
this:

http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash


Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in
particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr
Perry).

TfL has been publicising the risk in anticipation of contactless payment
card acceptance going live across all modes (currently only available on
buses - though there's a system wide trial), however card clash has been
a possibility from the start what with people having other RFID type
cards (commonly building access cards) in their wallet / purse / pocket.

I hear a TFL announcement all the time on SWT stations.

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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

In article ,
(Mark Bestley) wrote:

Scott wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could
cause card clash.

This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital
occasionally.

Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the
extra holders I need now?

TfL used to give out wallets for Oyster cards. I have several. Don't they do
so any more?

Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

That's why they are warning you!

The current system works. How can I keep it?

The world moves on. You can always pay cash, the premium rate.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:35:38 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader)

As it is an Oyster card, but just formatted differently, then that's
not a surprise. In due course I would expect other smartcards in ITSO
format will also clash - that depends on the ITSO functionality being
switched on on the TfL network of card reading devices. The TfL card
readers will in due course read Oyster, contactless bank cards and
ITSO spec cards.

Don't they already on buses? Or do national bus concession cards still have
to be handled manually?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Mark Bestley) wrote:

Scott wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could
cause card clash.

This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital
occasionally.

Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the
extra holders I need now?

TfL used to give out wallets for Oyster cards. I have several. Don't they do
so any more?

Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

That's why they are warning you!

The current system works. How can I keep it?

The world moves on. You can always pay cash, the premium rate.

But not on buses for much longer.

In message , at 20:38:56 on Tue, 24 Jun
2014, Mizter T remarked:
Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in
particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr
Perry).

"TfL admits to card-clash" 4th Feb. Sounds pretty matter of fact to me.

I've been reporting Oyster card-clash here for years (originally as a
result of having a credit-card sized door-entry rfid in my wallet).

We also speculated on how they were going to prevent card-clash with the
Barclays Onepulse combined Oyster and credit card; it didn't occur that
the was "they won't", and that it need to be withdrawn.

Of all the risks listed by the OP, by far the most serious is the "pair
of unresolved journeys" one.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:48:42 +0100, wrote:
Speaking of contactless technology, is anybody else here on the pilot
programme?

Yes.

If so, then what has your experience been of dealing with TfL staff?
Mine has been that they don't have a clue about the pilot programme.

I've only been inspected once which was on the DLR. The member of staff
didn't appear to know what to do but moved on to the next passenger
after seeing my pilot membership card.

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:48:42 +0100,
wrote:
Speaking of contactless technology, is anybody else here on the pilot
programme?

Yes.

If so, then what has your experience been of dealing with TfL staff?
Mine has been that they don't have a clue about the pilot programme.

I've only been inspected once which was on the DLR. The member of staff
didn't appear to know what to do but moved on to the next passenger
after seeing my pilot membership card.

Great isn't it.

I would have thought that having the trial was as much about making sure
that the correct process are in place for inspecting pax who claim to have
paid, as making sure that the back office adds up the fares correctly.

Otherwise when it goes live, people are just going to be able to flash their
contactless CC at the inspector and he is going to be stuffed.

I appreciate that you have the membership card, but that ought be a back up
if he tries to check and it doesn't work (and the fact that it didn't work
is flagged - for fixing). But not as the only check.

tim