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TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash = = = = Card clash Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. If you keep your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with your bank cards, you might occasionally see a red light when you touch it on a card reader at stations and on buses. The red light means you haven't paid for your journey and if you are at a ticket gate, it may not open. This can happen even if you've got enough pay as you go credit or a valid Travelcard on your Oyster card because you could be experiencing 'card clash'. Many cards are now issued with contactless technology - the same as Oyster cards: * Most bank, credit and charge card companies are issuing new cards ready for contactless payments * Many companies, educational establishments now issue contactless cards for cashless catering or as building entry passes If you touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader when it's in the same wallet or purse as another contactless card, the reader may detect more than one card. When this happens, the card reader doesn't know which one to read so rejects them and you could experience any of the following: * The ticket gate does not open. * You get a red light when you touch in on a yellow card reader on a bus, ticket gate or free-standing yellow card reader. * On buses, where contactless payment cards are accepted, your fare could be charged to a card that you did not intend to pay with. To avoid card clash: * Don't touch a wallet or purse with multiple cards on the yellow card reader. * Keep your Oyster card separate from your contactless payment cards only touch the card you want to use on the reader when touching in and out. Later in 2014, when contactless payment cards are accepted for travel on Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London, one of the following could also happen: * Your fare could be charged to a card you didn't intend to pay with. * You could be charged two maximum fares if the card reader reads one card when you touch in at the start of your journey and a different card at the end when you touch out. * Remember to separate your Oyster card from other contactless cards when touching in and out. [1] Oyster is a plastic smartcard which can hold pay as you go credit, Travelcards and Bus & Tram season tickets. You can use an Oyster card to travel on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash = = = = Card clash Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. If you keep your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with your bank cards, you might occasionally see a red light when you touch it on a card reader at stations and on buses. The red light means you haven't paid for your journey and if you are at a ticket gate, it may not open. This can happen even if you've got enough pay as you go credit or a valid Travelcard on your Oyster card because you could be experiencing 'card clash'. Many cards are now issued with contactless technology - the same as Oyster cards: * Most bank, credit and charge card companies are issuing new cards ready for contactless payments * Many companies, educational establishments now issue contactless cards for cashless catering or as building entry passes If you touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader when it's in the same wallet or purse as another contactless card, the reader may detect more than one card. When this happens, the card reader doesn't know which one to read so rejects them and you could experience any of the following: * The ticket gate does not open. * You get a red light when you touch in on a yellow card reader on a bus, ticket gate or free-standing yellow card reader. * On buses, where contactless payment cards are accepted, your fare could be charged to a card that you did not intend to pay with. To avoid card clash: * Don't touch a wallet or purse with multiple cards on the yellow card reader. * Keep your Oyster card separate from your contactless payment cards only touch the card you want to use on the reader when touching in and out. Later in 2014, when contactless payment cards are accepted for travel on Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London, one of the following could also happen: * Your fare could be charged to a card you didn't intend to pay with. * You could be charged two maximum fares if the card reader reads one card when you touch in at the start of your journey and a different card at the end when you touch out. * Remember to separate your Oyster card from other contactless cards when touching in and out. [1] Oyster is a plastic smartcard which can hold pay as you go credit, Travelcards and Bus & Tram season tickets. You can use an Oyster card to travel on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr Perry). TfL has been publicising the risk in anticipation of contactless payment card acceptance going live across all modes (currently only available on buses - though there's a system wide trial), however card clash has been a possibility from the start what with people having other RFID type cards (commonly building access cards) in their wallet / purse / pocket. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
Scott wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash = = = = Card clash Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. The current system works. How can I keep it? -- Mark |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr Perry). TfL has been publicising the risk in anticipation of contactless payment card acceptance going live across all modes though it has to be said not without being strong-armed to the stockade door before doing so tim |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 2014-06-24, CJB wrote:
From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk Not news to anyone here, nor is it in any way a major problem. Indeed it seems to be a bit too minor for RISKS-LIST really. Whoever sent it there, and you posting it here, look like you are trying to build a scare story on nothing much. But then you wouldn't ever over-react to something would you? Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? You have a problem with using a free Oyster wallet? |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
Speaking of contactless technology, is anybody else here on the pilot
programme? If so, then what has your experience been of dealing with TfL staff? Mine has been that they don't have a clue about the pilot programme. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 24/06/2014 20:38, Mizter T wrote:
On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr Perry). TfL has been publicising the risk in anticipation of contactless payment card acceptance going live across all modes (currently only available on buses - though there's a system wide trial), however card clash has been a possibility from the start what with people having other RFID type cards (commonly building access cards) in their wallet / purse / pocket. The pilot programme only covers Underground, Overground, DLR and NR within the Oyster catchment area. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 24/06/2014 20:48, Mark Bestley wrote: [...] Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? Plastic ticket wallets can be obtained for free from ticket offices (whilst they're still open) and I think 'Oyster Stop' newsagents Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. No. The current system works. How can I keep it? The system is changing, so you can't (the world changes). Many people will find the new system - of being able to pay by contactless payment cards (rather than Oyster) - very convenient. If you have a contactless payment card, when CPC payments go live across all modes (shortly), take your Oyster card out of your card holder and use your CPC instead. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
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TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
Mizter T wrote:
On 24/06/2014 20:48, Mark Bestley wrote: [...] Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? Plastic ticket wallets can be obtained for free from ticket offices (whilst they're still open) and I think 'Oyster Stop' newsagents Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. No. That is the important point - I can live with the otherr errors and carry on complaing but getting it wring is a problem. Oh well it means slowing the process down so I can confirm that the correct card has ben registered - I assume that any process is incorrect until shown exactly what happened from long experience with computers The current system works. How can I keep it? The system is changing, so you can't (the world changes). Many people will find the new system - of being able to pay by contactless payment cards (rather than Oyster) - very convenient. If you have a contactless payment card, when CPC payments go live across all modes (shortly), take your Oyster card out of your card holder and use your CPC instead. -- Mark |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote:
From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash = = = = Card clash Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. If you keep your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with your bank cards, you might occasionally see a red light when you touch it on a card reader at stations and on buses. The red light means you haven't paid for your journey and if you are at a ticket gate, it may not open. This can happen even if you've got enough pay as you go credit or a valid Travelcard on your Oyster card because you could be experiencing 'card clash'. Many cards are now issued with contactless technology - the same as Oyster cards: * Most bank, credit and charge card companies are issuing new cards ready for contactless payments * Many companies, educational establishments now issue contactless cards for cashless catering or as building entry passes If you touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader when it's in the same wallet or purse as another contactless card, the reader may detect more than one card. When this happens, the card reader doesn't know which one to read so rejects them and you could experience any of the following: * The ticket gate does not open. * You get a red light when you touch in on a yellow card reader on a bus, ticket gate or free-standing yellow card reader. * On buses, where contactless payment cards are accepted, your fare could be charged to a card that you did not intend to pay with. To avoid card clash: * Don't touch a wallet or purse with multiple cards on the yellow card reader. * Keep your Oyster card separate from your contactless payment cards only touch the card you want to use on the reader when touching in and out. Later in 2014, when contactless payment cards are accepted for travel on Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London, one of the following could also happen: * Your fare could be charged to a card you didn't intend to pay with. * You could be charged two maximum fares if the card reader reads one card when you touch in at the start of your journey and a different card at the end when you touch out. * Remember to separate your Oyster card from other contactless cards when touching in and out. [1] Oyster is a plastic smartcard which can hold pay as you go credit, Travelcards and Bus & Tram season tickets. You can use an Oyster card to travel on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London. The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 24/06/2014 20:38, Mizter T wrote:
On 24/06/2014 20:18, CJB wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr Perry). TfL has been publicising the risk in anticipation of contactless payment card acceptance going live across all modes (currently only available on buses - though there's a system wide trial), however card clash has been a possibility from the start what with people having other RFID type cards (commonly building access cards) in their wallet / purse / pocket. I hear a TFL announcement all the time on SWT stations. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
In article ,
(Mark Bestley) wrote: Scott wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB wrote: Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? TfL used to give out wallets for Oyster cards. I have several. Don't they do so any more? Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. That's why they are warning you! The current system works. How can I keep it? The world moves on. You can always pay cash, the premium rate. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
|
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
wrote:
In article , (Mark Bestley) wrote: Scott wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB wrote: Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? TfL used to give out wallets for Oyster cards. I have several. Don't they do so any more? Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. That's why they are warning you! The current system works. How can I keep it? The world moves on. You can always pay cash, the premium rate. But not on buses for much longer. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
In message , at 20:38:56 on Tue, 24 Jun
2014, Mizter T remarked: Card clash is not news. Has been discussed in the past on utl (in particular I recall a particularly tabloid-esque subject line from Mr Perry). "TfL admits to card-clash" 4th Feb. Sounds pretty matter of fact to me. I've been reporting Oyster card-clash here for years (originally as a result of having a credit-card sized door-entry rfid in my wallet). We also speculated on how they were going to prevent card-clash with the Barclays Onepulse combined Oyster and credit card; it didn't occur that the was "they won't", and that it need to be withdrawn. Of all the risks listed by the OP, by far the most serious is the "pair of unresolved journeys" one. -- Roland Perry |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
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TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
"David Walters" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:48:42 +0100, wrote: Speaking of contactless technology, is anybody else here on the pilot programme? Yes. If so, then what has your experience been of dealing with TfL staff? Mine has been that they don't have a clue about the pilot programme. I've only been inspected once which was on the DLR. The member of staff didn't appear to know what to do but moved on to the next passenger after seeing my pilot membership card. Great isn't it. I would have thought that having the trial was as much about making sure that the correct process are in place for inspecting pax who claim to have paid, as making sure that the back office adds up the fares correctly. Otherwise when it goes live, people are just going to be able to flash their contactless CC at the inspector and he is going to be stuffed. I appreciate that you have the membership card, but that ought be a back up if he tries to check and it doesn't work (and the fact that it didn't work is flagged - for fixing). But not as the only check. tim |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On Tuesday, 24 June 2014 23:47:02 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:35:38 +0100, Tony Dragon wrote: The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) As it is an Oyster card, but just formatted differently, then that's not a surprise. In due course I would expect other smartcards in ITSO format will also clash - that depends on the ITSO functionality being switched on on the TfL network of card reading devices. The TfL card readers will in due course read Oyster, contactless bank cards and ITSO spec cards. -- Paul C I think 13th October is when ITSO cards should be usable on any Oyster reader. http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/tickets-...art-card/index The fares are already loaded on the database e.g. http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=SRY&dest=ZMP For anyone keeping track, the c2c Smart OID is 0247 |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
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TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 13:26:18 +0200, tim..... wrote:
"David Walters" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:48:42 +0100, wrote: Speaking of contactless technology, is anybody else here on the pilot programme? Yes. If so, then what has your experience been of dealing with TfL staff? Mine has been that they don't have a clue about the pilot programme. I've only been inspected once which was on the DLR. The member of staff didn't appear to know what to do but moved on to the next passenger after seeing my pilot membership card. Great isn't it. I would have thought that having the trial was as much about making sure that the correct process are in place for inspecting pax who claim to have paid, as making sure that the back office adds up the fares correctly. It feels like everything is ready apart from revenue protection so the pilot gives all the fare calculation and billing bits a proper soak test while they issue new card readers and train staff with the membership card in the interim. I assume it isn't going to go live until ticket inspectors are ready with a new gadget. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
In message , at 16:39:51 on
Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Paul Corfield remarked: I wonder if we will see Southern also extending the Key at the same time? They keep saying they will, but without having followed it chapter and verse, I'm pretty sure it's "delayed". eg: "To complement the ITSO deployment, Cubic has also implemented new gate lines at Gatwick Airport and Brighton, the biggest stations served by Southern outside of London. The next stage of the project will see Cubic deploy the technology to provide ITSO capability on the remaining Oyster overground gate estate, with the final stage enabling London Underground and buses to accept ITSO cards in early 2014." Is it still "early 2014" ?? People have been anticipating "ITSO on Prestige" since at least 2009. Including a GoVia press release: "Introduction of an ITSO-certified Smartcard ticketing system across the network by January 2012" -- Roland Perry |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 20:48:45 +0100, (Mark Bestley)
wrote: Scott wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT), CJB wrote: From RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Tuesday 24 June 2014 Volume 28 : Issue 04 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:41:13 +0100 From: Wm redacted Subject: London transport authority acknowledges contactless technology risk How many organisations have warned users of their cards about the risks vs how many have been discovered and reported ? I was checking the balance on my Oyster card [1] on-line and noticed this: http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments...ter/card-clash = = = = Card clash Keeping your Oyster card in your wallet or purse with other cards could cause card clash. This all looks like commonsense to me - and I only visit the capital occasionally. Yes but I currently have one holder for all cards - who will pay for the extra holders I need now? I thought Oyster card holders were issued free of charge. Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the world? The current system works. How can I keep it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...l_64zigqui40_b |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 25/06/2014 15:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Tony Dragon writes The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) That's (very) rarely a clash but a mis-read when someone waves their card about and expected the reader to magically read it. Freedom pass users are one of the worst offenders at this but not unique. A proper CPC clash is 70 or 71 which is reporting it's detected 2 cards or a read error. Those more observant of you may have noticed that recently the UTS gates have had a software upgrade and many of these codes now report a 'plain text' translation of the error code on the second text line. Lets see, Freedom Pass in wallet, Debit Card in wallet, gates don't open. Remove either, gates open. So a card clash. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 25/06/2014 11:00, David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:48:42 +0100, wrote: Speaking of contactless technology, is anybody else here on the pilot programme? Yes. If so, then what has your experience been of dealing with TfL staff? Mine has been that they don't have a clue about the pilot programme. I've only been inspected once which was on the DLR. The member of staff didn't appear to know what to do but moved on to the next passenger after seeing my pilot membership card. I had a problem with use of it once, and I went to the wick to ask the staff about it. The person there simply told me that payment with contactless cards wasn't yet possible. When I told them that it was and showed them my pilot card, that individual simply had no idea what this was. Same thing happened when I tried to exit at another station; When I told the gate attendant that it wasn't working, that individual told me that such a system wasn't yet in place. I also used it at London Bridge station for NR, and one of the attendants who saw it told me that it wasn't possible yet to use contactless. I just told that individual that it was possible and continued to walk on. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 25/06/2014 11:11, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 18:48:23 -0500, wrote: In article , (Paul Corfield) wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:35:38 +0100, Tony Dragon wrote: The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) As it is an Oyster card, but just formatted differently, then that's not a surprise. In due course I would expect other smartcards in ITSO format will also clash - that depends on the ITSO functionality being switched on on the TfL network of card reading devices. The TfL card readers will in due course read Oyster, contactless bank cards and ITSO spec cards. Don't they already on buses? Or do national bus concession cards still have to be handled manually? I may not be up to date. There was certainly a limited trial of accepting ITSO spec cards on some bus routes. I have yet to see anything that confirms that fleet wide reading of ITSO spec Concessionary Passes from outside London has started. TfL reports haven't confirmed it nor has the Freedom Pass website - checking the latter says that non London ENCTS passes must be shown to drivers in London. What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or further afield on NR? |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 25/06/2014 15:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Tony Dragon writes The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) That's (very) rarely a clash but a mis-read when someone waves their card about and expected the reader to magically read it. Freedom pass users are one of the worst offenders at this but not unique. A proper CPC clash is 70 or 71 which is reporting it's detected 2 cards or a read error. Those more observant of you may have noticed that recently the UTS gates have had a software upgrade and many of these codes now report a 'plain text' translation of the error code on the second text line. What does Error 80 mean, BTW? That is the code that I have experienced once or twice on the Contactless pilot programme. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 25/06/2014 21:33, Tony Dragon wrote:
On 25/06/2014 15:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote: In message , Tony Dragon writes The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) That's (very) rarely a clash but a mis-read when someone waves their card about and expected the reader to magically read it. Freedom pass users are one of the worst offenders at this but not unique. A proper CPC clash is 70 or 71 which is reporting it's detected 2 cards or a read error. Those more observant of you may have noticed that recently the UTS gates have had a software upgrade and many of these codes now report a 'plain text' translation of the error code on the second text line. Lets see, Freedom Pass in wallet, Debit Card in wallet, gates don't open. Remove either, gates open. So a card clash. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com I wonder if TfL uses different types of readers? I ask, because, before I joined the Contactless pilot programme, I would carry my Oyster card along with a Smart Card from another city on the Continent. Some readers would have a problem with two cards together, while others would not give a toss. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
In message of Wed, 25 Jun 2014
21:33:35 in uk.transport.london, Tony Dragon writes On 25/06/2014 15:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote: In message , Tony Dragon writes The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader) That's (very) rarely a clash but a mis-read when someone waves their card about and expected the reader to magically read it. Freedom pass users are one of the worst offenders at this but not unique. A proper CPC clash is 70 or 71 which is reporting it's detected 2 cards or a read error. Those more observant of you may have noticed that recently the UTS gates have had a software upgrade and many of these codes now report a 'plain text' translation of the error code on the second text line. Lets see, Freedom Pass in wallet, Debit Card in wallet, gates don't open. Remove either, gates open. So a card clash. Possibly! My experience of error 94 is that it is the result of sliding the card over the detector, rather than placing it thereon. http://www.geofftech.co.uk/tube/codes.html shows 94 - Card communications failed - Bad swipe of card/Card not read I have never seen 70 - Near Field Radio error (Usually, two Oyster Cards presented at the same time, or other Oyster processing error), or other unspecified Oyster Card error 71 - Multiple cards (More than one Oyster card detected) When my Freedom Pass wallet swallowed an Oyster card (both were in the same pocket), the Oyster card was read on exit at Tufnell Park - resulting in an unstarted journey. ;) Have you (Tony Dragon) tried a wallet containing a Freedom Pass and a debit card and no other card to confirm the behaviour you report. I suggest you place the wallet and leave it in position for about a second to eliminate any sliding behaviour. I think gate detectors have a plate which is sufficiently near horizontal to serve. Alternatively - double sided tape is wonderful.;) My Freedom Pass wallet contains a debit card and about 10 miscellaneous cards and rarely gives grief - I sometimes grip the top and bottom of the wallet and proximity detection continues to work through my fingers. OTOH, sliding cards on readers often causes the following: [Person ahead slides Oyster and gets 94.] Your card may work if you place it rather than slide it. [Does so and passes without acknowledgement.] You're welcome! YMMV. -- Walter Briscoe |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
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TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
In message , at 20:30:47 on
Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Scott remarked: Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the world? If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which I don't think is what they do). -- Roland Perry |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote: On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, " wrote: What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or further afield on NR? I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get ITSO based schemes into service. FWIW, Merseyrail now accepts payments for paper tickets by contactless card: http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/ticket-information/contactless-payment.aspx http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-24794486 http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/it-business/3512283/merseyrail-completes-deployment-of-contactless-ticket-payment-systems/ http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/merseyrail-introduces-contactless-payment The latter two articles make it clear that this is contactless payment being added as an option to ticket offices and to TVMs (initially at the former, with the latter following later) - so a much more conventional deployment of the technology compared to London. (I can see a quite delightful scope for confusion should TVMs and ticket offices in London start accepting contactless cards as a means of paying for conventional paper tickets!) |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On 26/06/2014 08:00, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 20:30:47 on Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Scott remarked: Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the world? If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which I don't think is what they do). That's definitely not on the agenda - apart from the massively unnecessary systems complication and equally spectacular user confusion it'd cause, it would also enable two or more people to travel around concurrently and have their journeys capped that day as if they were one person. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
Mizter T wrote:
On 26/06/2014 08:00, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 20:30:47 on Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Scott remarked: Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the world? If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which I don't think is what they do). That's definitely not on the agenda - apart from the massively unnecessary systems complication and equally spectacular user confusion it'd cause, it would also enable two or more people to travel around concurrently and have their journeys capped that day as if they were one person. Yes, that's a very good point. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
In message , at 08:17:03 on Thu, 26 Jun
2014, Mizter T remarked: Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card. If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the world? If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which I don't think is what they do). That's definitely not on the agenda - apart from the massively unnecessary systems complication It's be very simple, just one additional look-up to be done when the back-office system post-processes the day's transactions. and equally spectacular user confusion it'd cause, I don't think we've the heard the end of this double-unresolved-journey thing. It's a PR accident just waiting to happen. it would also enable two or more people to travel around concurrently and have their journeys capped that day as if they were one person. That is a more significant issue, but it does illustrate that if you are prepared to loan your card to someone, then the day's cap is already transferable between two or more people. I wonder if we will see people getting pre-paid credit cards with small balances on them, and sharing them as travel tickets between a group of friends (eg flatmates). Hmm, now that's got me thinking. How do you "load" a young person's railcard onto a contactless credit card, or will this be done by having your online account marked as being associated with a railcard that's been presented to the system somehow, somewhere. -- Roland Perry |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 00:51:13 +0100, Mizter T
wrote: What plans? (That's the answer, BTW.) Stagecoach Lancaster have been trialling it, though I don't know to what extent. Neil -- Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply. |
TfL acknowledges contactless technology risk
On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 00:55:51 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?". Even a single operator scheme is a good start - simply accepting payment for paper tickets by card. Far more convenient than cash. I think this is what Stagecoach were doing. Neil -- Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply. |
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