On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, John Rowland wrote:

"Aidan Stanger" wrote in message
...
John Rowland wrote:

Incidentally, the S in S-Bahn does not stand for
surface, suburban or any equivalent German term.
It stands for "Stadt" (city) and relates to
the way an S-Bahn is funded and owned.
[..]
As Germany has (over the last few years)
gained several Stadtbahnen (light rail lines)
which are quite different from S-bahnen, I don't
believe you!

Crossposted to MTRE for extra input. Please would someone support or refute
my comments above!

When the Munich S-Bahn opened (I was working there at the time), we
were given to understand that the S in that case was for "Schnell".
It's a heavy-rail system operating on the regular DB overhead power
system (although with high-level platforms). Quite different from the
situation in Berlin, or Hamburg, or Koeln... - which also differ from
each other in various ways.

So I'd say "it depends".

In article , (Aidan Stanger) wrote:

As Germany has (over the last few years) gained several Stadtbahnen
(light rail lines) which are quite different from S-bahnen, I don't
believe you!

Collins gives S-Bahn as abbreviation of either Stadtbahn or Schnellbahn,
and the definitions as respectively "high-speed railway" (which IMO is never
what an S-Bahn is!) and "suburban railway (Brit), city railroad (US)."

The online dictionary http://dict.leo.org gives quite a selection for Stadtbahn:

city railway, light rail link, light rail rapid transit, light rail transit, light railway,
metropolitan railway

....and interestingly, for commuter railway system, urban-suburban commuter
railway system, "S- und Stadtbahn", which indicates that whatever "S-" means
there, it's not "Stadt-"! Perhaps it's just a word now with its original significance
no longer there, like BAA or BT? On the other hand, for "light rail transit" among
other things it gives "Stadtbahnen und Straßenbahnen", and for "underground
light railway" "Unterpflasterstraßenbahn".

There is often an overlap between street-running trams and underground rapid
transit, e.g. in Cologne or Boston (Mass.).

--
Peter Beale

"Alan J. Flavell" schrieb:

Incidentally, the S in S-Bahn does not stand for
surface, suburban or any equivalent German term.
It stands for "Stadt" (city) and relates to
the way an S-Bahn is funded and owned.
[..]
As Germany has (over the last few years)
gained several Stadtbahnen (light rail lines)
which are quite different from S-bahnen, I don't
believe you!

Crossposted to MTRE for extra input. Please would someone support or refute
my comments above!

When the Munich S-Bahn opened (I was working there at the time), we
were given to understand that the S in that case was for "Schnell".
It's a heavy-rail system operating on the regular DB overhead power
system (although with high-level platforms). Quite different from the
situation in Berlin, or Hamburg, or Koeln...

The Köln S-Bahn is a heavy-rail system operating on the regular DB
overhead power system (although with high-level platforms).

They also have a (U-)Stadtbahn.

Regards, ULF

Nations have anthems, groupings of countries (the U.N., Commonwealth
etc.) do not.


Why not? I think it's disgusting.


Because of divided loyalties, that's why the E.U., like all other forced
associations will ultimately fail.

Marc.

"Mait001" wrote in message
...

Because of divided loyalties, that's why the E.U., like all other forced
associations will ultimately fail.



Oh, I don't know - the UK seems to have coped fine with its own divisions,
and shows no signs of disintigrating as yet...

Jonn

Mait001 wrote:

Or, even worse, replaced with an ugly new facile logo I have seen defacing
stations around London: "Overground Network". I have to confess, the first few
times I saw this ugly"ON" logo I thought it was an advert for a new mobile
'phone company (e.g. "Orange Network")!


When I first saw it, I thought it looked remarkably similar to the logo for
the defunct OnDigital pay-TV network!

i.e. http://www.ondigital-in-liquidation.co.uk/

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

"Alan J. Flavell" schrieb:

When the Munich S-Bahn opened (I was working there at the time), we
were given to understand that the S in that case was for "Schnell".
It's a heavy-rail system operating on the regular DB overhead power
system (although with high-level platforms). Quite different from the
situation in Berlin, or Hamburg, or Koeln...

The Köln S-Bahn is a heavy-rail system operating on the regular DB
overhead power system (although with high-level platforms).

Then I was confusing Koeln with somewhere else that was different
from Munich, Berlin and Hamburg. Sorry.

"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...
"Mait001" wrote in message
...

Because of divided loyalties, that's why the E.U., like all other forced
associations will ultimately fail.



Oh, I don't know - the UK seems to have coped fine with its own divisions,
and shows no signs of disintigrating as yet...


Having got onto this topic perhaps someone can help me out. The Tories are
against closer integration into Europe claiming loss of sovereignty etc. If
that is really the case why are they also against returning sovereignty to
Scotland and Wales?

On 10 Feb 2004 14:07:48 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:


I have often arrived around 6.30 or 7p.m to find not a SINGLE train listed
to
stop at W.T.

You have been unlucky then! My train always stops at Wandsworth Town
(2ph) and the equivalent goiung via Richmond does so also. Therefore
at least 4tph - peak and offpeak.


What is your normal period from Waterloo then?


Normally between 6:15 and 7:15

On 10 Feb 2004 21:59:22 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

"Overground Network" - just how stupid do the operators (whoever
they happen to be this week, as opposed to last week and next
week) think we are. And, are spening MONEY on this idiocy!

Except that ON is actually a TfL initiative that has been foisted upon
the train operators in some parts of the capital.

In which case, even more idiotic, and another legacy of the fools that
vote for having a Mayor of London and all the munificence that this
has brought.

Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to
distinguish between the Underground and overground?!

As you almost certainly know, the point of ON is not to distinguish it
from the London Underground, but to show that the station has at
least 4 trains per hour to / from central London (i.e. that it has a
'metro' service, much like the Underground - hence the name). This
is very useful to me because when I'm at a station and I can see the
ON logo I know that I won't be standing at the station for 30 minutes
waiting for a train. If I don't see the logo I will check the timetables
and if necessary take a bus to a different station.

I for one think it's a very good idea from the Greater London Authority,
and it is one of the many reasons that I will be voting for Ken in the
upcoming elections.


Matt Ashby

Well, Matt, unlike Ken's normal quest for personal publicity (I expect to see
his mugshot on the new hackney carriage plates ....), this "ON" thing must have
been the best-kept secret of the decade: until this thread started, and I
mentioned my dislike of the logo, whose purpose I had no idea whatsoever, I had
not heard of this "metro" idea. I travel fairly often from Waterloo to Clapham
Junction, and as a railway enthusiast I am always on the look-out for new
leaflets etc., and NOWHERE have I seen a single mention of this new idea!


I'm not a railway enthusiast but I heard of the ON "metro" idea months
ago. I only which it would include my station (my station is on some
of the ON routemaps at other stations but doesn't have 4tph so isn't
an ON station)

Despite everything that has been said, I still strongly dispute that there are
4 trains per hour from Waterloo to Wandsworth Town in the evening peak period.


I strongly dispute that there aren't :-) I've seen them leave
Waterloo signed as stopping at WT so I'd be surprised if they didn't
actually stop.