Oyster Cap confusion
 

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when Off-Peak
applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 18/07/2014 22:02, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 20:08:20 +0100, Peter Able stuck@home wrote:

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when Off-Peak
applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

I don't think so.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2014/0...eak-changes-2/


Many thanks, Paul. Just another example of Scrambled Oyster, then.

--
PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at
20:08:20 on Fri, 18 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future
and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
20:08:20 on Fri, 18 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future and
a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in line with
other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the relevant period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not advised
to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/peak-off-peak-and-caps/

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message

, at 03:34:19 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Recliner
remarked:
If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in line with
other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the relevant period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not advised
to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

So it's just bad luck, and today's timetable, which has this 24 minute
wormhole. Apart from that, it's surprisingly consistent.

--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

Recliner wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
20:08:20 on Fri, 18 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing
something about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on
a weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as
you go fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap
instead of Peak cap."
That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the
future and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in line
with other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the relevant
period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not
advised to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/peak-off-peak-and-caps/

The Chalfont time looks odd. If there was a 0912 from Amersham, then
Amersham/Chorleywood/Rickmansworth passengers would be off-peak, but
Chalfont passengers peak?

Peter Smyth

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 09:06, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
20:08:20 on Fri, 18 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future
and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL to
move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 09:34, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
20:08:20 on Fri, 18 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future and
a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in line with
other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the relevant period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not advised
to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/peak-off-peak-and-caps/


It's a shame that TfL don't copy the above linked page's added content
(principally, the asterisked note) to their own page.

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at
11:58:45 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future and
a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in line with
other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the relevant period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not advised
to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/peak-off-peak-and-caps/

It's a shame that TfL don't copy the above linked page's added content
(principally, the asterisked note) to their own page.

What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at
11:55:58 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future
and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL to
move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the rule
is still 0930?)

What possible objection would there be to an additional train at 0914,
for Oyster users?
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

It allows people through the barriers rather than blocking the rather restricted booking hall. Although that does assume that people will be more concerned about the cap rather than the headline fare which I doubt.

What possible objection would there be to an additional train at 0914,
for Oyster users?

Remember that the Chesham branch is single track and can only accomodate 2tph in each direction.

IIRC the times are determined by Chiltern wishing to avoid overcrowding on one of their "peak shoulder" services.

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 08:57, Peter Able wrote:

[...]
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when Off-Peak
applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

I don't think so.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2014/0...eak-changes-2/

Many thanks, Paul. Just another example of Scrambled Oyster, then.

It's a legacy thing, harking back to when there was a train leaving
Chesham at some point between 09:10 and 09:30.

The timetable may change in the future.

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 12:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
11:58:45 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead
of Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the
future and
a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in line
with
other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the relevant period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not
advised
to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/peak-off-peak-and-caps/

It's a shame that TfL don't copy the above linked page's added content
(principally, the asterisked note) to their own page.

What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 12:53, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
11:55:58 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future
and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL to
move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the rule
is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

What possible objection would there be to an additional train at 0914,
for Oyster users?

This would have to be the retimed 0910. There just isn't the track
capacity to insert another train. Perhaps another write-in campaign
could achieve this. The more significant event though was the retiming
of the 0929. I'm happy enough to be part of achieving that small
victory. (£5.60) saved on each London hospital visit!

At one time Chesham received a blanket concession whereby cheap fares
applied to the 0908. Those were the days ;-}}

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 12:52, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
If you look at the relevant page, you can see that Chesham is in
line with other outlying Met stations, that do have trains in the
relevant period:

Station Time of Touch In
Chesham 09:10*
Amersham 09:10
Chalfont & Latimer 09:20
Chorleywood 09:15
Rickmansworth 09:20

* Warning: first train from Chesham is not until 0934. You are not
advised
to touch in before 0930 or you may be overcharged.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/peak-off-peak-and-caps/

It's a shame that TfL don't copy the above linked page's added content
(principally, the asterisked note) to their own page.

What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

I'm guessing the author of said site might be wary of the whole journey
'timing out' if a passenger touches in at 09:10 for an 09:34 train,
which might just possibly be a factor in a long journey?

That said, if that's the concern, the maximum journey times are fairly
generous:

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/maximum-journey-times

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:14, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 12:53, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future
and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL to
move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the rule
is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 17:11, Piatkow wrote:
But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

It allows people through the barriers rather than blocking the rather restricted booking hall. Although that does assume that people will be more concerned about the cap rather than the headline fare which I doubt.


Could be - although it isn't the busiest of stations. What you see
after 0910 at Chesham on a weekday morning is the majority going through
the barriers - and hence committing to pay the higher fare - and a
smaller number waiting for 0931 before passing through the barrier -
followed by the fag-puffers who've been out in the road! They then all
travel on the same train.

In the bad old days, everyone was permitted to use the 0908 at cheap
rate. Huh!


What possible objection would there be to an additional train at 0914,
for Oyster users?

Remember that the Chesham branch is single track and can only accomodate 2tph in each direction.

IIRC the times are determined by Chiltern wishing to avoid overcrowding on one of their "peak shoulder" services.

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:26, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:14, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 12:53, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
Maybe it's in case there's a timetable change some time in the future
and a train timed at say 09.14 is introduced.

Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL to
move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the rule
is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at
18:02:26 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

The off-peak capping.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:01, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 08:57, Peter Able wrote:

[...]
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but am I missing something
about Oyster capping?

"If you travel from a station north of Chorleywood or Hatch End on a
weekday after the times below, you'll be charged a peak pay as you go
fare, but your journey will count towards an Off-Peak cap instead of
Peak cap."

That touch in time for Chesham is given as "After 09:10"

But the next Chesham departure "After 09:10" is at 09:34 - when
Off-Peak
applies to fares, anyway.

Am I missing something?

I don't think so.

http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2014/0...eak-changes-2/

Many thanks, Paul. Just another example of Scrambled Oyster, then.

It's a legacy thing, harking back to when there was a train leaving
Chesham at some point between 09:10 and 09:30.

The timetable may change in the future.

I hope not. The immediately previous departure pattern - 0929 and 0959
was REALLY annoying.

Mind you, with the crazy regulation of late one regularly gets the fare
back. ;-}}

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at
18:14:01 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
Until the January 2014 change, the first departure on which a cheap
fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929 departure leaving
ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Such things happen all over the network.

I'm pretty sure I used to have to miss a 09.29 from Surbiton to Waterloo
in order to get an off-peak fare.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:33, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:26, Mizter T wrote:

[...]
Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL
to move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the
rule is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:40, Peter Able wrote:
[...]
Many thanks, Paul. Just another example of Scrambled Oyster, then.

It's a legacy thing, harking back to when there was a train leaving
Chesham at some point between 09:10 and 09:30.

The timetable may change in the future.

I hope not. The immediately previous departure pattern - 0929 and 0959
was REALLY annoying.

Understood!


Mind you, with the crazy regulation of late one regularly gets the fare
back. ;-}}

It's that bad, eh?

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:50, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:33, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:26, Mizter T wrote:

[...]
Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL
to move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the
rule is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

Which describes us to a tee.

I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

I imagine that the Chesham branch is something TfL would love to get rid
of. So we natives had better keep our heads down

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
18:02:26 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

The off-peak capping.

But without any trains between 0910 and 0934, the commitment is
worthless, Roland.

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:56, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:50, Mizter T wrote:
[...]
Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

Which describes us to a tee.

Indeed.


I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

I imagine that the Chesham branch is something TfL would love to get rid
of. So we natives had better keep our heads down.

I'd think that its continuing existence is implicit in the grant to TfL
from central government! (So long as it gets patronised sufficiently,
which AIUI it does.)

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:46, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
18:14:01 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
Until the January 2014 change, the first departure on which a cheap
fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929 departure leaving
ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Such things happen all over the network.

I'm pretty sure I used to have to miss a 09.29 from Surbiton to Waterloo
in order to get an off-peak fare.

Nowadays there is an unadvertised but understandable leeway built into
the Oyster system of *I think* 2 minutes, so a touch-in at 09:28 counts
as off-peak not peak - meaning the 09:29 could be caught for an off-peak
fare!

(I've tested this a little, but not very scientifically.)

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at
18:57:13 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

The off-peak capping.

But without any trains between 0910 and 0934, the commitment is
worthless, Roland.

It's not worthless, it allows you to benefit from the lower cap despite
entering the platform before 0930.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

In message , at 19:12:00 on Sat, 19 Jul
2014, Mizter T remarked:
I'm pretty sure I used to have to miss a 09.29 from Surbiton to Waterloo
in order to get an off-peak fare.

Nowadays there is an unadvertised but understandable leeway built into
the Oyster system of *I think* 2 minutes, so a touch-in at 09:28 counts
as off-peak not peak - meaning the 09:29 could be caught for an
off-peak fare!

(I've tested this a little, but not very scientifically.)

When I was travelling from Surbiton, not only did the ticket office
originally refuse to sell until 0930, but when they relented after the
introduction of barriers, the gates wouldn't let you through.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 19:08, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:56, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:50, Mizter T wrote:
[...]
Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from
being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

Which describes us to a tee.

Indeed.


I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

I imagine that the Chesham branch is something TfL would love to get rid
of. So we natives had better keep our heads down.

I'd think that its continuing existence is implicit in the grant to TfL
from central government! (So long as it gets patronised sufficiently,
which AIUI it does.)

Chesham has been our home station for 22 years. In that time I'd say
that the traffic has decreased quite a bit. When one of the many
bridges on what is a long stretch of track (from Chalfont & Latimer)
needs replacing - well - it was that that almost saw it off before,
until that knight in shining armour, Ken Livingstone, leapt to its
defence. Of late a mass of money has been spent, apparently easing the
profile of some of the cutting walls along the branch. Surely, sooner
or later though, someone will say enough is enough.

I notice that TfL's journey planner often advises a bus from Chesham to
Amersham, then a train - maybe a straw in the wind?

How incredible that it was once seen as part of Crossrail.

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 18:53, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:40, Peter Able wrote:
[...]
Many thanks, Paul. Just another example of Scrambled Oyster, then.

It's a legacy thing, harking back to when there was a train leaving
Chesham at some point between 09:10 and 09:30.

The timetable may change in the future.

I hope not. The immediately previous departure pattern - 0929 and 0959
was REALLY annoying.

Understood!


Mind you, with the crazy regulation of late one regularly gets the fare
back. ;-}}

It's that bad, eh?

Our last trip in - on the 0910, so we paid full fare, but in return at
least got a "fast" schedule - was a farce. Much earlier there had been
a train taken out of service at Baker Street. This was blamed for the
way we crawled down to Harrow. At Harrow we were parallel with a slow
Met southbound service - as usual. The slow set off first but ran fast
enough that even with the two stops it had to make before Wembley Park
it still got to WP ahead of our "fast". At last, I thought, we'll
overtake 'em now - but no. The operator announced that "as we're
running so slow Control has instructed me to call at Wembley Park so you
can get onto the Jubilee service". So we stopped and most of the
passengers hike off and up over the bridge. Then we set off - and, of
course, as the bottleneck on that line is where the two southbound Met
lines converge just south of the Wembley Park platforms, we went like
the wind - overtaking all the poor sods who'd been driven off our train
(and off the slow - imaging the crush loading!) - plus two more
southbound Jubilees.

Even then we were 20m down on the TfL estimate of our South Ken arrival
estimate - so we at least got our fares back.

And don't get me going about the T-Cup !!

PA

Oyster Cap confusion
 

On 19/07/2014 19:35, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
18:57:13 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

The off-peak capping.

But without any trains between 0910 and 0934, the commitment is
worthless, Roland.

It's not worthless, it allows you to benefit from the lower cap despite
entering the platform before 0930.

The simple answer is that you learn not to turn up that early, have a
seat in the old booking office, go for a walk - or whatever. Very few
will knowingly or unknowingly benefit - and many more will be penalised
£2.80 because they know no better.