On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 01:55:00AM -0500, wrote:

Why on earth would anyone who visits London 2 or 3 times a year have any use
for auto-top up?

Just consider the costs of auto-topup vs topping up manually. Auto-topup
means that you have, on average, a tenner or so of your money not
immediately available to you. You also miss out on 0.00000001% interest
on that money in your bank account. Topping up manually means that for
each of those 2 or 3 times a year you need to waste a few minutes in a
queue.

For most people the cost of auto-topup is pennies, so is far less than
the cost of queueing. Therefore auto-topup is better.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

One person can change the world, but most of the time they shouldn't
-- Marge Simpson

On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 06:26:53PM -0500, wrote:

I never queue for top-ups because I mainly use Oyster Ticket Stops.

People visiting 2 or 3 times a year will typically arrive in London at a
main line station. AFAIK there aren't any ticket stops in stations, so
they're obviously going to have to queue at a ticket machine or office
unless they use auto-topup.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Nuke a disabled unborn gay baby whale for JESUS!

On 07/10/2014 12:42, David Cantrell wrote:

On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 06:26:53PM -0500, wrote:

I never queue for top-ups because I mainly use Oyster Ticket Stops.

People visiting 2 or 3 times a year will typically arrive in London at a
main line station. AFAIK there aren't any ticket stops in stations, so
they're obviously going to have to queue at a ticket machine or office
unless they use auto-topup.


One thing I think that many visitors might not realise is that many
National Rail/TOC TVMs can also do Oyster top-ups - not all of them,
e.g. East Coast at King's Cross or Virgin Trains at Euston (though there
are other TVMs at King's Cross and Euston - those of Great Northern and
London Midland - that can handle Oyster, though these TVMs might be
somewhat off the beaten track).

wrote:
I never queue for top-ups because I mainly use Oyster Ticket Stops. But then
I spend well under £20 a year on Oyster. Would anyone visiting 2 or 3 times
a year spend even that?

It's not hard to burn through a tenner (my standard topup) in a couple of
visits, particularly if they're multi-day (eg passing through, out Friday
back Sunday). It's not just the topup, but leaving enough remaining to make
another journey without topping up.

It's particularly the issue for buses, where there are no topup facilities.
I'm often getting off a train, walking to X, doing thing, then wanting to
get a bus to Y, at which point you don't want to find the nearest tube to
topup (I suspect few non-Londoners use Ticket Stops or would know where to
find the nearest). Or getting National Express in, where I don't pass
through a mainline station. And it's handy to have credit when you land at
Heathrow and want to take a bus - is there still no Oyster facility at the
bus station?

I've not used contactless, so this could be less of an issue due to that.

Theo

through a mainline station. And it's handy to have credit when you land at
Heathrow and want to take a bus - is there still no Oyster facility at the
bus station?

No, but it is after all directly above the T123 Underground station.

I suppose it might be slightly more if an issue if you're going
directly from T4 or T5 on a bus.

In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote:

wrote:
I never queue for top-ups because I mainly use Oyster Ticket Stops.
But then I spend well under £20 a year on Oyster. Would anyone
visiting 2 or 3 times a year spend even that?

It's not hard to burn through a tenner (my standard topup) in a couple of
visits, particularly if they're multi-day (eg passing through, out Friday
back Sunday). It's not just the topup, but leaving enough remaining to
make another journey without topping up.

I don't think I've ever got close but then almost all my tube journeys are
within Zones 1 & 2 (the Putney stations are in Zones 2 and 3) and I tend
just to make an out and back pair of journeys.

It's particularly the issue for buses, where there are no topup
facilities. I'm often getting off a train, walking to X, doing thing,
then wanting to get a bus to Y, at which point you don't want to find the
nearest tube to topup (I suspect few non-Londoners use Ticket Stops or
would know where to find the nearest). Or getting National Express in,
where I don't pass through a mainline station. And it's handy to have
credit when you land at Heathrow and want to take a bus - is there still
no Oyster facility at the bus station?

Sir wants to find more ticket stops.

I've not used contactless, so this could be less of an issue due to that.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 01:55:00AM -0500,
wrote:

Why on earth would anyone who visits London 2 or 3 times a year
have any use for auto-top up?

Just consider the costs of auto-topup vs topping up manually. Auto-topup
means that you have, on average, a tenner or so of your money not
immediately available to you. You also miss out on 0.00000001% interest
on that money in your bank account. Topping up manually means that for
each of those 2 or 3 times a year you need to waste a few minutes in a
queue.

For most people the cost of auto-topup is pennies, so is far less than
the cost of queueing. Therefore auto-topup is better.

You are forgetting the non-trivial chance of losing or mislaying the card so
the whole value is lost to you, at least temporarily. TfL make a lot of
money from that. I have no intention of contributing.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 08/10/2014 01:17, wrote:
In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 01:55:00AM -0500,
wrote:

Why on earth would anyone who visits London 2 or 3 times a year
have any use for auto-top up?


For most people the cost of auto-topup is pennies, so is far less than
the cost of queueing. Therefore auto-topup is better.

You are forgetting the non-trivial chance of losing or mislaying the card so
the whole value is lost to you, at least temporarily. TfL make a lot of
money from that. I have no intention of contributing.

But you're happy to cost TfL more money by doing small top ups in person
at ticket stops? (I presume ticket stops get paid for providing the service)

On 2014-10-08 07:57:10 +0000, Someone Somewhere said:

But you're happy to cost TfL more money by doing small top ups in
person at ticket stops? (I presume ticket stops get paid for providing
the service)

If a provider offers a service, why should a consumer moralise as to
whether to accept that service or not? If they did not want to offer
it, they wouldn't offer it.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 08/10/2014 09:30, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-08 07:57:10 +0000, Someone Somewhere said:

But you're happy to cost TfL more money by doing small top ups in
person at ticket stops? (I presume ticket stops get paid for providing
the service)

If a provider offers a service, why should a consumer moralise as to
whether to accept that service or not? If they did not want to offer
it, they wouldn't offer it.

Neil
Because they are a public entity and are therefore duty bound to offer
the service, to some extent without regard of cost?

And what's the problem with moralising about things? If we all did this
a little more with respect of things paid for or subsidised by the state
and were a little less selfish about things then maybe the economy would
be in a marginally better state.