Recliner wrote on 10 October 2014 21:21:27 ...
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:07:08 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:


I can't speak for anywhere else, but the open air stations in Copenhagen
don't have platform doors

and it's colder than here in the winter

I understood that Copenhagen had taken the decision to install them to
reduce delays from things ending up on the track and the auto
detection system stopping trains unncessarily. I agree that their
climate will provide a challenge to operating platform edge doors in
snowy / cold conditions but then they are more likely to be better
prepared than us to deal with such conditions.

Given that the JLE only has PEDs on the new underground stations, I assumed
the same would be true on other lines?

The JLE had PEDs installed primarily in order to reduce the number of
ventilation shafts, as the PEDs shield the waiting passengers from
excessive air flows through the station tunnels. Their use in order to
improve the safety of driverless trains is a separate issue. The DLR
manages to avoid having PEDs, so it's not necessarily essential to have
them before you introduce driverless trains.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 2014-10-10 20:21:27 +0000, Recliner said:

Given that the JLE only has PEDs on the new underground stations, I assumed
the same would be true on other lines?

The JLE isn't fully automatic, though - there's a "driver" at the
front, as there is on the DLR, with his hand hovering over the
emergency stop button. For a fully automated system, they are probably
needed. Though I question whether a fully automated system is viable
in the UK where people will hold the doors and the likes.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2014-10-10 20:39:09 +0000, Richard J. said:

The JLE had PEDs installed primarily in order to reduce the number of
ventilation shafts, as the PEDs shield the waiting passengers from
excessive air flows through the station tunnels. Their use in order to
improve the safety of driverless trains is a separate issue. The DLR
manages to avoid having PEDs, so it's not necessarily essential to have
them before you introduce driverless trains.

Though the DLR has guards, who can do things like check there isn't
someone about to be dragged under the train before giving the automated
"ding ding". (Then again, on Merseyrail that time...)

A question I suppose - does the DLR have any kind of "crap, there's a
person on the track" sensor? Has anyone been run over?

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 20:21:27 +0000, Recliner said:

Given that the JLE only has PEDs on the new underground stations, I assumed
the same would be true on other lines?

The JLE isn't fully automatic, though - there's a "driver" at the front,
as there is on the DLR, with his hand hovering over the emergency stop
button. For a fully automated system, they are probably needed. Though
I question whether a fully automated system is viable in the UK where
people will hold the doors and the likes.

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even in the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train, and
they're not walk-through, either, unlike new Tube trains. And they don't
have any PEDs.

On 10.10.14 23:27, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 20:21:27 +0000, Recliner said:

Given that the JLE only has PEDs on the new underground stations, I
assumed
the same would be true on other lines?

The JLE isn't fully automatic, though - there's a "driver" at the front,
as there is on the DLR, with his hand hovering over the emergency stop
button. For a fully automated system, they are probably needed. Though
I question whether a fully automated system is viable in the UK where
people will hold the doors and the likes.

Neil

What about DLR? The PSAs are not always at the helm and there are no
PEDs at all.

" wrote:
On 10.10.14 23:27, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 20:21:27 +0000, Recliner said:

Given that the JLE only has PEDs on the new underground stations, I
assumed
the same would be true on other lines?

The JLE isn't fully automatic, though - there's a "driver" at the front,
as there is on the DLR, with his hand hovering over the emergency stop
button. For a fully automated system, they are probably needed. Though
I question whether a fully automated system is viable in the UK where
people will hold the doors and the likes.

Neil

What about DLR? The PSAs are not always at the helm and there are no PEDs at all.

That's an understatement: they're generally not at the front and are often
not even in the front car of a three-car train. It's very much the
exception for a DLR train to be driven manually.

The DLR also has deep tunnel stations, as well as a few on the level and
many elevated.

In the hopes that I did not miss this, there is now a video of the
proposed new trains.

It really does look like a 38ts MkII

http://www.independent.co.uk/i/video...d-9785738.html

" wrote:
In the hopes that I did not miss this, there is now a video of the proposed new trains.

It really does look like a 38ts MkII

http://www.independent.co.uk/i/video...d-9785738.html

Let's just (probably forlornly) hope that the seats are deeply cushioned
and comfortable like the 38TS. More likely, they'll have 1cm of unyielding
padding under the trad velour.

On 2014-10-10 22:38:13 +0000, Recliner said:

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even in the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as
British passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on
and hold open doors with impunity.

I think that will, the unions aside, be by far the biggest issue.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 22:38:13 +0000, Recliner said:

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even in the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as British
passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on and hold
open doors with impunity.

I think that will, the unions aside, be by far the biggest issue.

The new automated trains will still have an attendant, who may be in charge
of closing the doors. Or they may be controlled remotely -- if the
driver/guard/attendant currently uses video screens to check them, why
couldn't someone in a remote control room do the same?

Incidentally, I remember the fuss the unions made when the Tube moved to
OPO, even without ATO -- they made fearsome forecasts of the inevitable
carnage that would follow. In fact, it's worked very well.