https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/river-crossings

Looking at the options for East London crossings, I am surprised by the
costs. Even hundreds of millions of pounds to replace the Woolwich Ferry
in situ with new floating stock.

Suppose TfL wanted to extend the EL1 bus so that it linked Ilford and
Barking to Bexleyheath. Linton Mead in Thamesmead provides access to the
river bank, and access could easily be achieved on the other side.

Two options spring to mind.

The London Duck carries tourists on land and on the Thames. Why could an
amphibious vehicle not run a regular bus route across here? (I'm
guessing the answer might have the word "wheelchair" in it somewhere.)

Why could a private chain ferry not be installed here, to be used only
by the EL1 bus? The buses would have a control box on the dashboard...
push a button to open the electronic gate, drive onto the ferry, look up
and down the river to check it's clear and then push another button to
shoot across the river and drive out, allowing another bus to come back.
Obviously the drivers would have to be given extra safety training and
would be dedicated to this route.

Neither option is as cheap as a normal bus route, but wouldn't half a
dozen such bus crossings between Charlton and Belvedere work out cheaper
than TfL's proposals?

On 17/11/2014 16:33, Basil Jet wrote:


Why could a private chain ferry not be installed here, to be used only
by the EL1 bus? The buses would have a control box on the dashboard...
push a button to open the electronic gate, drive onto the ferry, look up
and down the river to check it's clear and then push another button to
shoot across the river and drive out, allowing another bus to come back.
Obviously the drivers would have to be given extra safety training and
would be dedicated to this route.

Neither option is as cheap as a normal bus route, but wouldn't half a
dozen such bus crossings between Charlton and Belvedere work out cheaper
than TfL's proposals?

What about the old adage of waiting ages for a bus and then two come
along together?

On 2014\11\17 18:02, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:33:54 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:


https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/river-crossings

Looking at the options for East London crossings, I am surprised by the
costs. Even hundreds of millions of pounds to replace the Woolwich Ferry
in situ with new floating stock.

Suppose TfL wanted to extend the EL1 bus so that it linked Ilford and
Barking to Bexleyheath. Linton Mead in Thamesmead provides access to the
river bank, and access could easily be achieved on the other side.

Two options spring to mind.

The London Duck carries tourists on land and on the Thames. Why could an
amphibious vehicle not run a regular bus route across here? (I'm
guessing the answer might have the word "wheelchair" in it somewhere.)

This was demonstrated in the UK about 4 years ago,possibly it also
made a London visit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8506154.stm
Haven't heard any more news but last time I checked the company had
become Maltese based . I think the market they are aiming at is a more
modern version of vehicles for tourist tours.
No vehicle designed for water and land use is really much good at
either and needs a lot of maintenance. A dedicated fleet for a bus
route would be expensive and I doubt the MCA would allow driver only
operation. Staff would need to have certain marine certificates and
drill regularly.

I remember that now. It costs less than a million, so you could buy 100
of them for less than the cost of replacing the three Woolwich Ferries.


Why could a private chain ferry not be installed here, to be used only
by the EL1 bus? The buses would have a control box on the dashboard...
push a button to open the electronic gate, drive onto the ferry, look up
and down the river to check it's clear and then push another button to
shoot across the river and drive out, allowing another bus to come back.
Obviously the drivers would have to be given extra safety training and
would be dedicated to this route.
Or a transporter bridge.

I don't see the advantage of that over a chain ferry, except where a
river was prone to freezing for several months of every year.

Thanks!

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:33:54 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
The London Duck carries tourists on land and on the Thames. Why could an
amphibious vehicle not run a regular bus route across here? (I'm
guessing the answer might have the word "wheelchair" in it somewhere.)

Good luck getting the local school kids to don lifejackets every trip!

--
Spud

On 2014\11\17 18:02, wrote:

Anything that floats and carries passengers is a very expensive
operation

Why would a chain ferry need any safety staff when the dangleway has no
staff in its carriages? Although, I suppose the only function staff
could perform in the dangleway would be to scream along with you as you
plummet.

On 2014\11\19 03:06, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\17 18:02, wrote:

Anything that floats and carries passengers is a very expensive
operation

Why would a chain ferry need any safety staff when the dangleway has no
staff in its carriages? Although, I suppose the only function staff
could perform in the dangleway would be to scream along with you as you
plummet.

So the moral of the story is, design a form of transport to be so
dangerous that staff could not survive any malfunction, and the system
then becomes unstaffed and affordable. But if the staff can survive a
malfunction, you then have to have them, which makes the system too
expensive to build at all.

In message , at 03:06:16 on Wed, 19 Nov
2014, Basil Jet remarked:
Anything that floats and carries passengers is a very expensive
operation

Why would a chain ferry need any safety staff when the dangleway has no
staff in its carriages?

Because it might bump into other boats on the river.
--
Roland Perry

On 2014\11\19 11:17, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:06:16 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2014\11\17 18:02, wrote:

Anything that floats and carries passengers is a very expensive
operation

Why would a chain ferry need any safety staff when the dangleway has no
staff in its carriages? Although, I suppose the only function staff
could perform in the dangleway would be to scream along with you as you
plummet.

Because it is a marine vehicle in public service and comes under
Marine and Coastguard agency rules which have developed over the years
in response to various incidents.
As it happens a couple of weeks before it was withdrawn for this
seasons overhaul the Sandbanks ,Dorset Ferry I mentioned suffered a
broken chain, the second this year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-29754794
It wasn't proved but the first incident was possibly caused by a ship
cutting it, I wouldn't think the Port of London would be happy to have
such a risk across the river.
With crew on board at least they can drop an anchor and reassure
passengers or launch lifesaving equipment if some person falls off.

Partly caused by the situation of being where it is the Studland Ferry
is frequently collided with by small pleasure sailors ,more than a few
owe their survival to the ferry having a crew to pull them out.

Propelling a chain ferry from Sandbanks to Studland without hitting
anything is like playing Frogger. Propelling a chain ferry from
Thamesmead to Barking Reach without hitting anything is hardly a challenge.

Normally cable ways don't get collided with unless the US Marines are
about and they won't own up anyway and being honourable men will
destroy the evidence. so you need your staff on the ground as
witnesses.
http://rickmccharles.com/2009/08/17/...s-20-in-italy/

Even if the chain in front snaps, a chain ferry has another chain
behind. And I find it hard to believe that a chain ferry which is just
plain unsinkable is beyond the wit of man.

In message , at 13:34:10 on Wed, 19 Nov
2014, Basil Jet remarked:
Partly caused by the situation of being where it is the Studland Ferry
is frequently collided with by small pleasure sailors ,more than a few
owe their survival to the ferry having a crew to pull them out.

Propelling a chain ferry from Sandbanks to Studland without hitting
anything is like playing Frogger. Propelling a chain ferry from
Thamesmead to Barking Reach without hitting anything is hardly a
challenge.

But things might still hit the chain ferry even (maybe particularly) if
it's stopped in midstream.
--
Roland Perry