Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

The count of eighteen damaged trains was given on ITV news.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

In message , John Rowland
writes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

The count of eighteen damaged trains was given on ITV news.

18 cars on three trains, perhaps?
--
Roland Perry

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

Subject: Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...

london local news -ITV- said 10 trains had to be taken out of service...?

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

John Rowland wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

Which contains the following utterly unsurprising line:

Bobby Law, London Regional Organiser of the Rail Maritime and
Transport union blamed the "dangers" of the public private partnership
(PPP) and its "complex web" of sub-contractors.

Who would have guessed the RMT bod would say something like that? :)

--
James Farrar |
London, SE23 |

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"Proctor46" wrote in message
...
Subject: Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...

london local news -ITV- said 10 trains had to be taken out of service...?

As Farringdon sidings can only hold three trains of 'C' stock I would
suggest that 9 would be the correct figure, as each 'train' would be formed
of three two-car fixed-formation train sets, comprising one Driving Motor
and one Uncoupling Trailer, formed either DM+UT+DM+UT+UT+DM or
DM+UT+UT+DM+UT+DM.

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

In message , Jack Taylor
writes
As Farringdon sidings can only hold three trains of 'C' stock I would
suggest that 9 would be the correct figure, as each 'train' would be formed
of three two-car fixed-formation train sets, comprising one Driving Motor
and one Uncoupling Trailer, formed either DM+UT+DM+UT+UT+DM or
DM+UT+UT+DM+UT+DM.

Where does it say they were damaged coming out of the sidings? Surely
that would happened way before the rush hour.
--
Roland Perry

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

James Farrar wrote in message ...
John Rowland wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

Which contains the following utterly unsurprising line:

Bobby Law, London Regional Organiser of the Rail Maritime and
Transport union blamed the "dangers" of the public private partnership
(PPP) and its "complex web" of sub-contractors.

Who would have guessed the RMT bod would say something like that? :)

Much as the unions irritate me with the insincere sanctamonious sermonising
that they regularly inflict upon us, in this case I think they're right.
They doesn't seem to have been any benefit to PPP (other than to the
treasury) and in fact things do seem to have got slightly worse. Just my
opinion anyway.

B2003

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

I think they're right.
They doesn't seem to have been any benefit to PPP (other than to the
treasury) and in fact things do seem to have got slightly worse. Just my
opinion anyway.

I to agree with you - wasn't it TOT yesterday that said they were going to
have another look at the "contracts" that had been made under PPP to see if
any of them were actually worth anything - (basically saying that it has
been a waste of time so far and the 2 yr "honeymoon period" was well past.

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"Roger the cabin boy" wrote in
:

I think they're right.
They doesn't seem to have been any benefit to PPP (other than to the
treasury) and in fact things do seem to have got slightly worse. Just
my opinion anyway.

I to agree with you - wasn't it TOT yesterday that said they were
going to have another look at the "contracts" that had been made under
PPP to see if any of them were actually worth anything - (basically
saying that it has been a waste of time so far and the 2 yr "honeymoon
period" was well past.






In the case of Metronet SSL, the one year "honeymoon period" has not
even lapsed. I'll come out of the closet now and say that I do work for
the above mentioned company, albeit on the stations side. From what I
have heard from someone directly invovled, is that the work that was
being done was on behalf of a contractor of LUL.

woutster

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

In the case of Metronet SSL, the one year "honeymoon period" has not
even lapsed. I'll come out of the closet now and say that I do work for
the above mentioned company, albeit on the stations side. From what I
have heard from someone directly invovled, is that the work that was
being done was on behalf of a contractor of LUL.

woutster

OK I stand corrected. I am sure I read it in yestrdays Evening Standard.
Still you know what they say - Todays newspaper - tomorrows chip paper.

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

OK I stand corrected. I am sure I read it in yestrdays Evening Standard.
Still you know what they say - Todays newspaper - tomorrows chip paper.


After further investigation I have unearthed from the www.thisislondon site
the actual story that was printed and the following is what I had read
yesterday and it appears it was Bob Kiley who they quoted


"He told a board meeting of Transport for London: "If we don't see
improvements in the maintenance performance or renewal activity which is
broadly under way, then we may be at a point where we will have to revisit
these contracts in a pretty vigorous way.
"At the end of the second year all forgiveness is over. "

This led me to believe it had been 2 yrs.



The article is at
http://www.thisislondon.com/news/art...ing%20Standard



The bit about the chip paper still stands ;-)

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

woutster wrote:

In the case of Metronet SSL, the one year "honeymoon period" has not
even lapsed. I'll come out of the closet now and say that I do work
for the above mentioned company, albeit on the stations side. From
what I have heard from someone directly invovled, is that the work
that was being done was on behalf of a contractor of LUL.

Work on the infrastructure being done by a contractor of LUL rather than
a contractor of Metronet SSL? Surely that's not way PPP is supposed to
work, is it?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , Jack Taylor
writes
As Farringdon sidings can only hold three trains of 'C' stock I would
suggest that 9 would be the correct figure, as each 'train' would be
formed
of three two-car fixed-formation train sets, comprising one Driving Motor
and one Uncoupling Trailer, formed either DM+UT+DM+UT+UT+DM or
DM+UT+UT+DM+UT+DM.

Where does it say they were damaged coming out of the sidings? Surely
that would happened way before the rush hour.

That will teach me to read the referenced article first (which I didn't do
because John's lengthy URL wrapped around - please use
www.makeashorterlink.com or www.tinyurl.com when posting these). I wrongly
assumed that this was an incident of vandalism at Farringdon. Having seen
the article in the papers yesterday I now know that it was down to badly
carried out maintenance work (out of gauge brackets fitted to the tunnel
wall), so apologies all round.

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

Jack Taylor wrote:

That will teach me to read the referenced article first (which I
didn't do because John's lengthy URL wrapped around - please use
www.makeashorterlink.com or www.tinyurl.com when posting these).

I was going to suggest that your newsreader was the problem, but in fact
you and I and John all use Outlook Express 6, and I had no problems with
John's long URL. Did you perhaps try to use the copy of it in Roland
Perry's post? He uses a different newsreader, I think, and the URL
didn't survive it.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

In message , Richard J.
writes
Jack Taylor wrote:

That will teach me to read the referenced article first (which I
didn't do because John's lengthy URL wrapped around - please use
www.makeashorterlink.com or www.tinyurl.com when posting these).

I was going to suggest that your newsreader was the problem, but in fact
you and I and John all use Outlook Express 6, and I had no problems with
John's long URL. Did you perhaps try to use the copy of it in Roland
Perry's post? He uses a different newsreader, I think, and the URL
didn't survive it.

It survived in the copy of my article that arrived back here.

Perhaps both your news reader(s) erroneously line-wrap long quoted
lines?

Meanwhile, how does this url do, in yours?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...04/02/11/utube
..xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/02/11/ixportaltop.html
--
Roland Perry

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

In message , Roland Perry
writes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...04/02/11/utube
.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/02/11/ixportaltop.html

hmm, that broke mine too :-(
--
Roland Perry

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...04/02/11/utube
.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/02/11/ixportaltop.html

hmm, that broke mine too :-(

Perhaps you ought to get a decent newsreader like Outlook Express.

Ooh. Never been able to say that before. :-)

exits left to look for flame-proof overalls and hard hat

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:26:57 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

woutster wrote:

In the case of Metronet SSL, the one year "honeymoon period" has not
even lapsed. I'll come out of the closet now and say that I do work
for the above mentioned company, albeit on the stations side. From
what I have heard from someone directly invovled, is that the work
that was being done was on behalf of a contractor of LUL.

Work on the infrastructure being done by a contractor of LUL rather than
a contractor of Metronet SSL? Surely that's not way PPP is supposed to
work, is it?

But not everything being provided on the LUL network is provided by the
Infracos. Remember there are several PFI contractors which were signed
in advance of PPP to provide ticketing (Prestige), power and a new radio
network (Connect). There is also a PFI for British Transport Police
accommodation and plenty of other day to day contracts for stationery,
consultants, property maintenance for offices etc etc etc.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

In message , Roger the cabin boy
writes
After further investigation I have unearthed from the www.thisislondon
site the actual story that was printed and the following is what I had
read yesterday and it appears it was Bob Kiley who they quoted


"He told a board meeting of Transport for London: "If we don't see
improvements in the maintenance performance or renewal activity which
is broadly under way, then we may be at a point where we will have to
revisit these contracts in a pretty vigorous way. "At the end of the
second year all forgiveness is over. "

Perhaps Bob Kiley was including the months of 'shadow running' that took
place prior to the actual Infraco contracts being signed? It certainly
seems like it's been years already - and no travel improvements to show
for all the billions given away by 'New Labour' yet either.

I wonder what improvements we would have right now if LUL had been given
Ken's financing scheme? A bit more than a few posh offices for the
Infraco's I would wager.

--
Bob Adams

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:26:57 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

woutster wrote:

In the case of Metronet SSL, the one year "honeymoon period" has not
even lapsed. I'll come out of the closet now and say that I do work
for the above mentioned company, albeit on the stations side. From
what I have heard from someone directly invovled, is that the work
that was being done was on behalf of a contractor of LUL.

Work on the infrastructure being done by a contractor of LUL rather than
a contractor of Metronet SSL? Surely that's not way PPP is supposed to
work, is it?

But not everything being provided on the LUL network is provided by the
Infracos. Remember there are several PFI contractors which were signed
in advance of PPP to provide ticketing (Prestige), power and a new radio
network (Connect). There is also a PFI for British Transport Police
accommodation and plenty of other day to day contracts for stationery,
consultants, property maintenance for offices etc etc etc.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Later reports stated that it was Balfour Kilpatrick who were working as
sub-contractors to Metronet.

Colin

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"Colin" wrote in
:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:26:57 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

woutster wrote:

In the case of Metronet SSL, the one year "honeymoon period" has
not even lapsed. I'll come out of the closet now and say that I do
work for the above mentioned company, albeit on the stations side.
From what I have heard from someone directly invovled, is that the
work that was being done was on behalf of a contractor of LUL.

Work on the infrastructure being done by a contractor of LUL rather
than a contractor of Metronet SSL? Surely that's not way PPP is
supposed to work, is it?

But not everything being provided on the LUL network is provided by
the Infracos. Remember there are several PFI contractors which were
signed in advance of PPP to provide ticketing (Prestige), power and a
new radio network (Connect). There is also a PFI for British
Transport Police accommodation and plenty of other day to day
contracts for stationery, consultants, property maintenance for
offices etc etc etc. --
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Later reports stated that it was Balfour Kilpatrick who were working
as sub-contractors to Metronet.

Colin



Balfour Kilpatrick were installing 10,000 volt lines as sub to Metronet
as sub to Connect PFI as contractor to LUL. Now with whom does the
responsibility rest?

woutster

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

woutster ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Balfour Kilpatrick were installing 10,000 volt lines as sub to Metronet
as sub to Connect PFI as contractor to LUL. Now with whom does the
responsibility rest?

Easy.

It's all Ken's fault.

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

Adrian wrote:
woutster ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Balfour Kilpatrick were installing 10,000 volt lines as sub to
Metronet as sub to Connect PFI as contractor to LUL. Now with whom
does the responsibility rest?

Easy.

It's all Ken's fault.

Errrrrmmm, no. He was fighting to stop PPP rememeber?

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

Cast_Iron ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Balfour Kilpatrick were installing 10,000 volt lines as sub to
Metronet as sub to Connect PFI as contractor to LUL. Now with whom
does the responsibility rest?

Easy.

It's all Ken's fault.

Errrrrmmm, no. He was fighting to stop PPP rememeber?

But, but, but......
*EVERYTHING* is Ken's fault, isn't it?
I'm confused now...

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 1.4...
Cast_Iron ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Balfour Kilpatrick were installing 10,000 volt lines as sub to
Metronet as sub to Connect PFI as contractor to LUL. Now with whom
does the responsibility rest?

Easy.

It's all Ken's fault.

Errrrrmmm, no. He was fighting to stop PPP rememeber?

But, but, but......
*EVERYTHING* is Ken's fault, isn't it?
I'm confused now...

Do you mean as in "Ken's got a very responsible position. It doesn't matter
what happens, he's responsible"?

Eighteen LU trains damaged at Farringdon...
 

"woutster" wrote in message
40.11...

Balfour Kilpatrick were installing 10,000 volt lines as sub to Metronet
as sub to Connect PFI as contractor to LUL. Now with whom does the
responsibility rest?

woutster

Surely LUL's contract is with Connect PFI. They can delegate part or all of
the work to a sub-contractor, but not the responsibility. Any remedies LUL
might have in law are with Connect PFI, irrespective of who their
sub-contractor is. Compare with purchase of a house - your contract is with
the builder - not his subs...

PMS