Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\01\26 11:51, Recliner wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:31:32PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:12:28 on
Sat, 24 Jan 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
given that Crossrail will run thru three different signalling systems,
integrate into the timetables of two franchises, and mix with local
and freight traffic, one can see it will present an operating
challenge.
Three franchises if you count HEx.

Will the Heathrow Express (and Heathrow Connect) still exist in the long
term? After all Crossrail will go from Paddington to Heathrow.

Crossrail takes over HC, but HEx is supposed to live on, as a faster, more
premium non-stop service to Paddington. Time will tell if the market will
support it long term; it may depend on what terminals the two serve.

Crossrail will serve all except T5. HEx will presumably continue to serve all except T4.

Which will give HEx an advantage with BA pax.

In message
-septemb
er.org, at 15:18:47 on Mon, 26 Jan 2015, Recliner
remarked:

Crossrail will serve all except T5. HEx will presumably continue to serve all except T4.

Which will give HEx an advantage with BA pax.

The way they've served the three terminals [treating 123 as a single
point] with one through train and a shuttle has always been a dogs
dinner. BA probably has the clout to get BAA run the direct train to
whichever of T4/5 they are using this week (so to speak).

The Crossrail trains will be 4tph, so there's a possibility they could
interleave them to both termini, and have a 4tph service from each;
half-and-half. With judicious timing you could perhaps offer an easy
change at 123 from a Crossrail train to a HEx not far behind (from the
'other' terminus). That would of course require HEx to be able to
overtake the Crossrail train.

The plans for the timetabling were all consulted on and finalised five
years ago, I think. So this is perhaps closing the stable door after the
horse has been chopped up and stuck in a Lasagne.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septemb
er.org, at 15:18:47 on Mon, 26 Jan 2015, Recliner remarked:

Crossrail will serve all except T5. HEx will presumably continue to serve all except T4.

Which will give HEx an advantage with BA pax.

The way they've served the three terminals [treating 123 as a single
point] with one through train and a shuttle has always been a dogs
dinner. BA probably has the clout to get BAA run the direct train to
whichever of T4/5 they are using this week (so to speak).

BA is fixed in T5 and T3, with a few remaining flights still in T1, soon to
be transferred.

The Crossrail trains will be 4tph, so there's a possibility they could
interleave them to both termini, and have a 4tph service from each;
half-and-half. With judicious timing you could perhaps offer an easy
change at 123 from a Crossrail train to a HEx not far behind (from the
'other' terminus). That would of course require HEx to be able to
overtake the Crossrail train.

As it should, as it'll be running non-stop on the main line, with Crossrail
on the relief line. I don't think there's then a grade-separated route
from the mains to the Crossrail tunnel, so HEx will have to remain a
Paddington-only service.

In message
-septem
ber.org, at 17:01:17 on Mon, 26 Jan 2015, Recliner
remarked:
Crossrail will serve all except T5. HEx will presumably continue to serve all except T4.

Which will give HEx an advantage with BA pax.

The way they've served the three terminals [treating 123 as a single
point] with one through train and a shuttle has always been a dogs
dinner. BA probably has the clout to get BAA run the direct train to
whichever of T4/5 they are using this week (so to speak).

BA is fixed in T5 and T3, with a few remaining flights still in T1, soon to
be transferred.

I think we all understand that to be the case. Originally HEx went to 4
(before T5 was built). Do you think it was a co-incidence it was swung
to T5?

The Crossrail trains will be 4tph, so there's a possibility they could
interleave them to both termini, and have a 4tph service from each;
half-and-half. With judicious timing you could perhaps offer an easy
change at 123 from a Crossrail train to a HEx not far behind (from the
'other' terminus). That would of course require HEx to be able to
overtake the Crossrail train.

As it should, as it'll be running non-stop on the main line, with Crossrail
on the relief line. I don't think there's then a grade-separated route
from the mains to the Crossrail tunnel, so HEx will have to remain a
Paddington-only service.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septem
ber.org, at 17:01:17 on Mon, 26 Jan 2015, Recliner remarked:
Crossrail will serve all except T5. HEx will presumably continue to
serve all except T4.

Which will give HEx an advantage with BA pax.

The way they've served the three terminals [treating 123 as a single
point] with one through train and a shuttle has always been a dogs
dinner. BA probably has the clout to get BAA run the direct train to
whichever of T4/5 they are using this week (so to speak).

BA is fixed in T5 and T3, with a few remaining flights still in T1, soon to
be transferred.

I think we all understand that to be the case. Originally HEx went to 4
(before T5 was built). Do you think it was a co-incidence it was swung to T5?

Not at all.

On 2015\01\26 17:01, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septemb
er.org, at 15:18:47 on Mon, 26 Jan 2015, Recliner remarked:

Crossrail will serve all except T5. HEx will presumably continue to serve all except T4.

Which will give HEx an advantage with BA pax.

The way they've served the three terminals [treating 123 as a single
point] with one through train and a shuttle has always been a dogs
dinner. BA probably has the clout to get BAA run the direct train to
whichever of T4/5 they are using this week (so to speak).

BA is fixed in T5 and T3, with a few remaining flights still in T1, soon to
be transferred.

The Crossrail trains will be 4tph, so there's a possibility they could
interleave them to both termini, and have a 4tph service from each;
half-and-half. With judicious timing you could perhaps offer an easy
change at 123 from a Crossrail train to a HEx not far behind (from the
'other' terminus). That would of course require HEx to be able to
overtake the Crossrail train.

As it should, as it'll be running non-stop on the main line, with Crossrail
on the relief line. I don't think there's then a grade-separated route
from the mains to the Crossrail tunnel, so HEx will have to remain a
Paddington-only service.

.... which seems a bit pointless. HEx from St Pancras via the Dudding
Hill line I can see, but of course that requires electrification and
perhaps a flyover in Acton. It would be better if it came from Gatwick.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 11:51:57AM +0000, Recliner wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
Will the Heathrow Express (and Heathrow Connect) still exist in the long
term? After all Crossrail will go from Paddington to Heathrow.
Crossrail takes over HC, but HEx is supposed to live on, as a faster, more
premium non-stop service to Paddington. Time will tell if the market will
support it long term; it may depend on what terminals the two serve.

Hmm.

HEx's selling point, to me, was that it's a hell of a lot faster than
the Jubilee Line. Crossrail will still be a hell of a lot faster than
the Jubilee Line and I'm not convinced that the price differential of
HEx vs HC/Crossrail is worth the difference. In fact, once there are
direct trains from Heathrow to Liverpool St instead of having to change
at Paddington the HEx will, I think, look even less attractive.

But then I suppose that that's why HEx is so heavily advertised. I
recently watched a recording of the USA vs All Blacks rugby match from
back in November. HEx sponsor the USA team and were heavily advertised
around the pitch at Soldier Field and IIRC I've seen their ads at
stadiums in NZ and Aus too.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Just because it is possible to do this sort of thing
in the English language doesn't mean it should be done

David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 11:51:57AM +0000, Recliner wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
Will the Heathrow Express (and Heathrow Connect) still exist in the long
term? After all Crossrail will go from Paddington to Heathrow.
Crossrail takes over HC, but HEx is supposed to live on, as a faster, more
premium non-stop service to Paddington. Time will tell if the market will
support it long term; it may depend on what terminals the two serve.

Hmm.

HEx's selling point, to me, was that it's a hell of a lot faster than
the Jubilee Line. Crossrail will still be a hell of a lot faster than
the Jubilee Line and I'm not convinced that the price differential of
HEx vs HC/Crossrail is worth the difference. In fact, once there are
direct trains from Heathrow to Liverpool St instead of having to change
at Paddington the HEx will, I think, look even less attractive.

I suspect you meant the Piccadilly Line?

But then I suppose that that's why HEx is so heavily advertised. I
recently watched a recording of the USA vs All Blacks rugby match from
back in November. HEx sponsor the USA team and were heavily advertised
around the pitch at Soldier Field and IIRC I've seen their ads at
stadiums in NZ and Aus too.

There's also the official HEx touts at Heathrow trying to sell you tickets
before you see the Underground sign.

On 26/01/2015 23:26, Basil Jet wrote:
[...]
... which seems a bit pointless. HEx from St Pancras via the Dudding
Hill line I can see, but of course that requires electrification and
perhaps a flyover in Acton. It would be better if it came from Gatwick.

There's not enough space in St Pancras as it is (for Midland main line
services). Also how busy is the Dudding Hill line with freight?

And it's a bit of a long way round!

On 2015\01\29 00:13, Mizter T wrote:

On 26/01/2015 23:26, Basil Jet wrote:
[...]
... which seems a bit pointless. HEx from St Pancras via the Dudding
Hill line I can see, but of course that requires electrification and
perhaps a flyover in Acton. It would be better if it came from Gatwick.

There's not enough space in St Pancras as it is (for Midland main line
services). Also how busy is the Dudding Hill line with freight?

No idea, but a St Pancras to Heathrow service via this route was floated
regularly in the late 1990s.

And it's a bit of a long way round!

It's not ideal but hardly long. It's about two miles longer than the
fairly straight road route from St Pancras to Acton Main Line. Much
quicker than going to Farringdon or Paddington and getting a stopping train.