On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 13:41:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:



Unfortunately I'm not yet ready to transfer my company accounts to
paperless (and I'm not sure HMRC is either, on my behalf).

Last week I received a letter from HMRC to say that they won't be
sending me what they call the 'paper pack' (for self-assessment) this
year but will instead send me an SA316 to explain how to complete a
tax return online or by post. I am encouraged to make my return online
as it is 'just as easy, which is why most people chose to do it this
way.'
When the online system started it couldn't deal with people claiming
losses, the sad situation that I happen to be in, but I don't know if
that is still the case. If I continue to submit my return by post then
I guess HMRC will save on the cost of printing the forms.
If thay are encouraging individuals to submit online then it can't be
long before they start on small companies too.

In message , at 13:40:31 on
Fri, 27 Mar 2015, Peter Johnson
remarked:
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 13:41:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

Unfortunately I'm not yet ready to transfer my company accounts to
paperless (and I'm not sure HMRC is either, on my behalf).

Last week I received a letter from HMRC to say that they won't be
sending me what they call the 'paper pack' (for self-assessment) this
year but will instead send me an SA316 to explain how to complete a
tax return online or by post. I am encouraged to make my return online
as it is 'just as easy, which is why most people chose to do it this
way.'

When the online system started it couldn't deal with people claiming
losses, the sad situation that I happen to be in, but I don't know if
that is still the case. If I continue to submit my return by post then
I guess HMRC will save on the cost of printing the forms.
If thay are encouraging individuals to submit online then it can't be
long before they start on small companies too.

As far as I can tell I'm required to submit both personal and company
tax returns online. As well as more recently having to submit PAYE
returns every single month (even if there's "zero" to report) rather
than at the end of the year.

But that's not the same as keeping the documents from which I have
compiled those returns in a paperless form. Let alone if *I* don't have
paperless copies of those documents saved locally, rather than it being
a link to a logon process at dozens of suppliers.
--
Roland Perry

"Peter Johnson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 13:41:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:



Unfortunately I'm not yet ready to transfer my company accounts to
paperless (and I'm not sure HMRC is either, on my behalf).

Last week I received a letter from HMRC to say that they won't be
sending me what they call the 'paper pack' (for self-assessment) this
year but will instead send me an SA316 to explain how to complete a
tax return online or by post. I am encouraged to make my return online
as it is 'just as easy, which is why most people chose to do it this
way.'
When the online system started it couldn't deal with people claiming
losses, the sad situation that I happen to be in, but I don't know if
that is still the case. If I continue to submit my return by post then
I guess HMRC will save on the cost of printing the forms.
If thay are encouraging individuals to submit online then it can't be
long before they start on small companies too.

I thought they already had

I leave my accountant to file my return, but I'm sure that she told me a few
years ago that it was online only

tim

In message , at 11:06:29 on Sat, 28 Mar
2015, tim..... remarked:
Unfortunately I'm not yet ready to transfer my company accounts to
paperless (and I'm not sure HMRC is either, on my behalf).

Last week I received a letter from HMRC to say that they won't be
sending me what they call the 'paper pack' (for self-assessment) this
year but will instead send me an SA316 to explain how to complete a
tax return online or by post. I am encouraged to make my return online
as it is 'just as easy, which is why most people chose to do it this
way.'
When the online system started it couldn't deal with people claiming
losses, the sad situation that I happen to be in, but I don't know if
that is still the case. If I continue to submit my return by post then
I guess HMRC will save on the cost of printing the forms.
If thay are encouraging individuals to submit online then it can't be
long before they start on small companies too.

I thought they already had

I leave my accountant to file my return, but I'm sure that she told me
a few years ago that it was online only

But I bet you don't transfer your business records to her paperlessly
have thrown away all the receipts and invoices, or expect HMRC to be
happy with a paperless audit of paperless records.

That's what I meant by "transferring my company accounts to paperless".

If I'd meant "ready to do paperless tax return filing", which has indeed
been required for a couple of years, I'd have said that.

And it's not just any old paperless filing - now they require it a
special XTML format. Last year I tried sending them a PDF and they
rejected it.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:06:29 on Sat, 28 Mar 2015,
tim..... remarked:
Unfortunately I'm not yet ready to transfer my company accounts to
paperless (and I'm not sure HMRC is either, on my behalf).

Last week I received a letter from HMRC to say that they won't be
sending me what they call the 'paper pack' (for self-assessment) this
year but will instead send me an SA316 to explain how to complete a
tax return online or by post. I am encouraged to make my return online
as it is 'just as easy, which is why most people chose to do it this
way.'
When the online system started it couldn't deal with people claiming
losses, the sad situation that I happen to be in, but I don't know if
that is still the case. If I continue to submit my return by post then
I guess HMRC will save on the cost of printing the forms.
If thay are encouraging individuals to submit online then it can't be
long before they start on small companies too.

I thought they already had

I leave my accountant to file my return, but I'm sure that she told me a
few years ago that it was online only

But I bet you don't transfer your business records to her paperlessly

Um, yes I do

we communicate by email with attachments

have thrown away all the receipts

I keep those at home, um I mean, on my office premises, for the (small)
chance that anyone wants to see the originals.

My "cash" business expenses represent a tiny part of my overheads so she
trusts me to report the total to her without sight of the receipts

and invoices,

these start off life as an xls file, so I just copy them to her

or expect HMRC to be happy with a paperless audit of paperless records.

I don't think that "record keeping" for audit purposes comes under the remit
of "reporting"

I doubt that HMRC will ever expect "record keeping" to go paperless.

That's what I meant by "transferring my company accounts to paperless".

Take that up with the PP. I was replying to his point, by which time he had
already made this mistake

tim

In message , at 12:33:06 on Sat, 28 Mar
2015, tim..... remarked:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:06:29 on Sat, 28 Mar
2015, tim..... remarked:
Unfortunately I'm not yet ready to transfer my company accounts to
paperless (and I'm not sure HMRC is either, on my behalf).

Last week I received a letter from HMRC to say that they won't be
sending me what they call the 'paper pack' (for self-assessment) this
year but will instead send me an SA316 to explain how to complete a
tax return online or by post. I am encouraged to make my return online
as it is 'just as easy, which is why most people chose to do it this
way.'
When the online system started it couldn't deal with people claiming
losses, the sad situation that I happen to be in, but I don't know if
that is still the case. If I continue to submit my return by post then
I guess HMRC will save on the cost of printing the forms.
If thay are encouraging individuals to submit online then it can't be
long before they start on small companies too.

I thought they already had

I leave my accountant to file my return, but I'm sure that she told
me a few years ago that it was online only

But I bet you don't transfer your business records to her paperlessly

Um, yes I do

we communicate by email with attachments

have thrown away all the receipts

I keep those at home, um I mean, on my office premises, for the (small)
chance that anyone wants to see the originals.

This is my main point - whether those "originals" are on paper, or are
the other side of a log-in to a supplier's e-commerce system.

My "cash" business expenses represent a tiny part of my overheads so
she trusts me to report the total to her without sight of the receipts

and invoices,

these start off life as an xls file, so I just copy them to her

I create my invoices with Word, but whatever floats your boat.

or expect HMRC to be happy with a paperless audit of paperless records.

I don't think that "record keeping" for audit purposes comes under the
remit of "reporting"

I doubt that HMRC will ever expect "record keeping" to go paperless.

In that case we are in agreement.

Which means that all those suppliers who increasingly insist on
paperless records are simply externalising their costs to customers who
are forced to print the things out (and keep them) in order to satisfy
HMRC.

--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 12:33:06 on Sat, 28 Mar 2015,
tim..... remarked:


I doubt that HMRC will ever expect "record keeping" to go paperless.

In that case we are in agreement.

Which means that all those suppliers who increasingly insist on paperless
records are simply externalising their costs to customers who are forced
to print the things out (and keep them) in order to satisfy HMRC.

One of us is not understanding

The requirement to "file" online has not changed the status of paper (or
electronic) receipts

under the old system you didn't send the receipts to HMRC but kept them is
store until the possibility of being audited has passed

and with the new system, you don't send them to HMRC but keep them is store
until the possibility of being audited has passed

tim

In message , at 09:24:05 on Sun, 29 Mar
2015, tim..... remarked:
I doubt that HMRC will ever expect "record keeping" to go paperless.

In that case we are in agreement.

Which means that all those suppliers who increasingly insist on
paperless records are simply externalising their costs to customers
who are forced to print the things out (and keep them) in order to
satisfy HMRC.

One of us is not understanding

The requirement to "file" online has not changed the status of paper
(or electronic) receipts

under the old system you didn't send the receipts to HMRC but kept them
is store until the possibility of being audited has passed

and with the new system, you don't send them to HMRC but keep them is
store until the possibility of being audited has passed

We are actually in fierce agreement about the matters above.

Perhaps we can also agree that:

Of course, with contactless payment now live many people will have
switched to just using their credit/debit card directly. That I think
can legitimately be said to be a paper saver.

Doesn't actually help people who need to put their travel costs through
company accounts. Because they'll continue to need to print out extracts
from card statements as collateral.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:24:05 on Sun, 29 Mar 2015,
tim..... remarked:
I doubt that HMRC will ever expect "record keeping" to go paperless.

In that case we are in agreement.

Which means that all those suppliers who increasingly insist on
paperless records are simply externalising their costs to customers who
are forced to print the things out (and keep them) in order to satisfy
HMRC.

One of us is not understanding

The requirement to "file" online has not changed the status of paper (or
electronic) receipts

under the old system you didn't send the receipts to HMRC but kept them is
store until the possibility of being audited has passed

and with the new system, you don't send them to HMRC but keep them is
store until the possibility of being audited has passed

We are actually in fierce agreement about the matters above.

Perhaps we can also agree that:

Of course, with contactless payment now live many people will have
switched to just using their credit/debit card directly. That I think
can legitimately be said to be a paper saver.

Doesn't actually help people who need to put their travel costs through
company accounts. Because they'll continue to need to print out extracts
from card statements as collateral.

I am sure we have agreed this before, as I had to start a discussion on the
subject when I had the problem with an overseas contract (relevance being
that this work doesn't go through my Ltd and thus I have to deal with
someone other than my normal accountant)

but what is the point you are making by bring it up?

tim

In message , at 10:53:44 on Sun, 29 Mar
2015, tim..... remarked:

Of course, with contactless payment now live many people will have
switched to just using their credit/debit card directly. That I
think can legitimately be said to be a paper saver.

Doesn't actually help people who need to put their travel costs
through company accounts. Because they'll continue to need to print
out extracts from card statements as collateral.

I am sure we have agreed this before, as I had to start a discussion on
the subject when I had the problem with an overseas contract (relevance
being that this work doesn't go through my Ltd and thus I have to deal
with someone other than my normal accountant)

but what is the point you are making by bring it up?

That printed receipts from railway (and similar) ticketing machines do
still have a use, and going paperless doesn't always [in fact rarely in
my experience] make things simpler for everyone.
--
Roland Perry