Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 18:51:18 on Tue, 31 Mar
2015, Mizter T remarked:
Meanwhile those of us deciding whether or not to buy outboundary
travelcards have a complex matrix of decisions based on how much out
particular TOC marks up (or discounts) the price when added to a London
Terminals Ticket, and how that all shifts around when buying off-peak,
or with a railcard discount, and also attempting to predict whether one
will hit any of the caps is travelling ad-hoc.

If they can stick *all* of that into the contactless system and
guarantee to offer the best deal from the numerous potential
combinations, that would be great. But how the ordinary traveller is
supposed to audit that, I have no idea.

Ha, well I can't really see the above happening!

Very similar issues can easily result from ITSO cards making non-optimal
(for the passenger) choices about which tickets to use *today* when you
have various period returns 'in stock'.
--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:51:18 on Tue, 31 Mar 2015,
Mizter T remarked:
And they haven't got a clean track record so far with Oyster capping,
where all they promise[1] turns out to be to cap to the cheapest
Travelcard that would once upon a time have been available for purchase,
and not try to work out if a slightly cheaper travelcard plus one single
from that card's boundary, might have worked out less expensive.

They've perhaps wormed their way out of that corner now by pretty much
having a flat fare for all paper day travelacrds.

[1] Mizter T can correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong, sorry!

If you do enough journeys within say zones 1&2 to reach a cap, and then
make a journey out to zone 6 (e.g. last day being a tourist in London
then out to Heathrow), you'll be capped for z1&2 and then pay a z3-z6 journey on top.

My impression was that they'd charge you for a Z1-6 travelcard.

Isn't it supposed to automatically charge for the cheaper of the two
possible options?

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
 

On 31/03/2015 19:29, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:51:18 on Tue, 31 Mar
2015, Mizter T remarked:
And they haven't got a clean track record so far with Oyster capping,
where all they promise[1] turns out to be to cap to the cheapest
Travelcard that would once upon a time have been available for purchase,
and not try to work out if a slightly cheaper travelcard plus one single
from that card's boundary, might have worked out less expensive.

They've perhaps wormed their way out of that corner now by pretty much
having a flat fare for all paper day travelacrds.

[1] Mizter T can correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong, sorry!

If you do enough journeys within say zones 1&2 to reach a cap, and
then make a journey out to zone 6 (e.g. last day being a tourist in
London then out to Heathrow), you'll be capped for z1&2 and then pay a
z3-z6 journey on top.

My impression was that they'd charge you for a Z1-6 travelcard.

OK, afraid your impression is erroneous. It does the clever thing rather
than defaulting to charge the most. I can vouch for this!

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2015-03-30 15:46:47 +0000, Matthew Dickinson said:

SWT and London Midland have recently withdrawn Oyster at their
ticket windows, so they can't value any commission that much.

Possibly confirmation that Oyster is going to become much more niche
- only really for those of limited means, tourists and children, as
everyone else will use contactless instead.

and for railcard holders.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.
 

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 31/03/2015 11:39, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2015-03-30 15:46:47 +0000, Matthew Dickinson said:

SWT and London Midland have recently withdrawn Oyster at their ticket
windows, so they can't value any commission that much.

Possibly confirmation that Oyster is going to become much more
niche [...]

Not really. LM offered Oyster at ticket windows at Watford Junction,
and poss at Euston? Nowhere else. SWT only offered Oyster at ticket
windows at a few stations such as Richmond and Wimbledon - it was
never anything near approaching universal.

I've read one suggestion that SWT's change might have been because
new ITSO compatible kit (for use with SEFT) that they're obliged to
support doesn't also support Oyster.

I don't think Putney has ever offered Oyster, potentially annoying with the
nearest Ticket Stop the other side of the Upper Richmond Road.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On 2015-04-01 01:15:23 +0000, said:

and for railcard holders.

I'm not sure about Railcards. Presently London is the only oddity
where "PTE" tickets are discounted using them, so I could see that
being abolished. But if not I'd be surprised if it wasn't developed to
allow a contactless account to have a Railcard added.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2015-04-01 01:15:23 +0000, said:

and for railcard holders.

I'm not sure about Railcards. Presently London is the only oddity
where "PTE" tickets are discounted using them, so I could see that
being abolished. But if not I'd be surprised if it wasn't developed
to allow a contactless account to have a Railcard added.

Uh-oh. A complete no-no and a quid-pro-quo for Oyster acceptance on NR in
London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On 2015-04-01 10:34:15 +0000, said:

Uh-oh. A complete no-no and a quid-pro-quo for Oyster acceptance on NR in
London.

In what manner is tying a Railcard to a credit card a complete no-no?

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 04:25:47PM +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:

TfL ticketing is just complicated, that's the fact of the matter. Whether
it's 'too' complicated, I don't know. However it isn't designed to be
friendly to visitors, at least visitors who want to understand what's going
on rather than just throwing money at TfL and hoping for the best.

If you've already spent umpty hundred pounds on getting to London and
accomodation in London, I suggest that worrying about the odd penny here
and there on your tube tickets is just not something that a rational
tourist will do. They'll care that they have a valid ticket, not that
they have the most efficient possible ticket.

To a lesser extent, the same applies to visitors from the provinces too,
especially infrequent visitors.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg
and egg whites, whisk, and place in a warm oven for 40 minutes.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 07:49:34AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 23:22:55 on Mon, 30 Mar
2015, Mizter T remarked:
Might as well just give up then, shut down the transport system, forget
about this modern living lark and go back to hunting on the savannah.
Though I imagine there'd still be one or two persistent voices around
the camp fire complaining long into the night about how things don't
work...
It would be interesting to know what it is about the cards which stops
them working.

Lack of a chain of agreement between TfL, some intermediary, the card
issuer, and the user. It's not a hardware or protocol issue and I think
it unlikely to be a software bug.

--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

Disappointment:
n: No results found for "priapic dwarf custard wrestling".

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.
 

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 04:17:49PM +0000, d wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:11:14 +0100
Mizter T wrote:
I doubt you've used it - works very well, it is ever-so-slightly-slower
to read the card but I don't know where you get the less reliable bit from.
I've seen on a number of occasions cards not work and the person has to try a
second or 3rd time. And it wasn't a card clash issue either.

This happens on Oyster cards too.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

The voices told me to [THIS SIG CENSORED BY GCHQ FOR REASONS OF
NATIONAL SECURITY AND DECENCY AND OH MY GOD IS THAT A LOBSTER]

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 12:20:26 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 04:25:47PM +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:

TfL ticketing is just complicated, that's the fact of the matter. Whether
it's 'too' complicated, I don't know. However it isn't designed to be
friendly to visitors, at least visitors who want to understand what's going
on rather than just throwing money at TfL and hoping for the best.

If you've already spent umpty hundred pounds on getting to London and
accomodation in London, I suggest that worrying about the odd penny here

If only it were an odd penny.

and there on your tube tickets is just not something that a rational
tourist will do. They'll care that they have a valid ticket, not that
they have the most efficient possible ticket.

If its an entire family over for a week that "odd penny" could amount to
a serious amount of money.

--
Spud

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 12:22:50
on Wed, 1 Apr 2015, David Cantrell remarked:

Might as well just give up then, shut down the transport system, forget
about this modern living lark and go back to hunting on the savannah.
Though I imagine there'd still be one or two persistent voices around
the camp fire complaining long into the night about how things don't
work...
It would be interesting to know what it is about the cards which stops
them working.

Lack of a chain of agreement between TfL, some intermediary, the card
issuer, and the user. It's not a hardware or protocol issue and I think
it unlikely to be a software bug.

That's the sort of agreement I'd expect TfL to have multilaterally with
(eg) Visa on behalf of all the banks that already have agreements with
Visa.

I'd don't know why, years from the start of the project, a patchwork
quilt of bilateral agreements hasn't yet been completed.
--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2015-04-01 10:34:15 +0000, said:

Uh-oh. A complete no-no and a quid-pro-quo for Oyster acceptance on NR
in London.

In what manner is tying a Railcard to a credit card a complete no-no?

That's not what I thought you said which is why I was saying that railcard
discounts would have to remain. I agree they could be tied to contactless
card accounts in future but they can't be now and even on Oyster they don't
show in online accounts, inexplicably.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

David Cantrell wrote:
If you've already spent umpty hundred pounds on getting to London and
accomodation in London, I suggest that worrying about the odd penny here
and there on your tube tickets is just not something that a rational
tourist will do. They'll care that they have a valid ticket, not that
they have the most efficient possible ticket.

Let them eat cake?

Not everyone is visiting on business from the USA and staying in a Zone 1
hotel. Some people are coming on the coach from the continent and staying
in a hostel. Some people are flying to Europe and spending months
travelling with a tight daily budget. Some people are sleeping in a tent or
a camper van. A family may be sharing a small hotel room in zone 6.

Just because you've come to London doesn't mean you have money to spare, in
the same way that living in London doesn't automatically mean you are rich.

Theo

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

The problem with railcards is that there is no database for railcards purchased at stations. (There is necessarily one for those purchased online.)

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article ,
(Matthew Dickinson) wrote:

The problem with railcards is that there is no database for railcards
purchased at stations. (There is necessarily one for those purchased
online.)

The railcard holders have to register them with TfL. I understand that will
be by the roving staff logging on to ticket machines.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On 2015-04-01 15:20:10 +0000, said:

That's not what I thought you said which is why I was saying that railcard
discounts would have to remain. I agree they could be tied to contactless
card accounts in future but they can't be now and even on Oyster they don't
show in online accounts, inexplicably.

I mentioned both options - removing acceptance, and tying to the
contactless account (which under the new Oyster system will be
basically the same as tying to an Oyster card).

If Railcards ever become ITSO cards with all discounted tickets held on
them as I suspect they will, you could even tie it to that - either
associate a PAYG account or a debit/credit card to the Railcard itself,
and tap away.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On 2015-04-01 17:14:51 +0000, Matthew Dickinson said:

The problem with railcards is that there is no database for railcards
purchased at stations. (There is necessarily one for those purchased
online.)

Most other European railways don't issue Railcards at stations in the
way we do - you might get a provisional card of some kind printed on a
ticket blank, but the main card is sent to you in the post. It would
be an option to follow that.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2015-04-01 17:14:51 +0000, Matthew Dickinson said:

The problem with railcards is that there is no database for
railcards purchased at stations. (There is necessarily one for
those purchased online.)

Most other European railways don't issue Railcards at stations in the
way we do - you might get a provisional card of some kind printed on
a ticket blank, but the main card is sent to you in the post. It
would be an option to follow that.

My 3 year Senior Railcard was ordered online and sent by post.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Mine too. (Apparently I have to make this post longer)

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 16:16:41
on Wed, 1 Apr 2015, remarked:

Most other European railways don't issue Railcards at stations in the
way we do - you might get a provisional card of some kind printed on
a ticket blank, but the main card is sent to you in the post. It
would be an option to follow that.

My 3 year Senior Railcard was ordered online and sent by post.

We bought a Network Card at the station recently, and they'd run out of
the wallets. Stock control doesn't seem to be one of AGA's fortes
either.
--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 22:06:55 on Wed, 1 Apr
2015, Neil Williams remarked:

If Railcards ever become ITSO cards with all discounted tickets held on
them as I suspect they will, you could even tie it to that - either
associate a PAYG account or a debit/credit card to the Railcard itself,
and tap away.

There's a few problems with that. Firstly some Railcards allow more than
one passenger to travel - indeed the Two Together mandates it.

Secondly you'd need to have interoperability between such an ITSO card
and all the TOCs, because you could be loading the underlying ticket
product from any of them onto it.

Finally, it would require interoperable acceptance of ITSO across the
entire network. Not just at every gated station but also all grippers.

As far as I'm aware one of the ongoing issues with EMT's ITSO project is
that tickets are only accepted on EMT trains, despite there being XC and
Northern trains serving the same routes in the Midlands, and Thameslink
near London.
--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 22:06:55 on Wed, 1
Apr 2015, Neil Williams remarked:

If Railcards ever become ITSO cards with all discounted tickets held on
them as I suspect they will, you could even tie it to that - either
associate a PAYG account or a debit/credit card to the Railcard itself,
and tap away.

There's a few problems with that. Firstly some Railcards allow more
than one passenger to travel - indeed the Two Together mandates it.

Secondly you'd need to have interoperability between such an ITSO
card and all the TOCs, because you could be loading the underlying
ticket product from any of them onto it.

Finally, it would require interoperable acceptance of ITSO across the
entire network. Not just at every gated station but also all grippers.

As far as I'm aware one of the ongoing issues with EMT's ITSO project
is that tickets are only accepted on EMT trains, despite there being
XC and Northern trains serving the same routes in the Midlands, and
Thameslink near London.

Those are probably reasons why only selected railcards get Oyster discounts,
Roland.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.
 

On 01.04.15 12:25, David Cantrell wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 04:17:49PM +0000, d wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:11:14 +0100
Mizter T wrote:
I doubt you've used it - works very well, it is ever-so-slightly-slower
to read the card but I don't know where you get the less reliable bit from.
I've seen on a number of occasions cards not work and the person has to try a
second or 3rd time. And it wasn't a card clash issue either.

This happens on Oyster cards too.


What I "love" is when people try to board a bus with an Oystercard that
has no balance. Despite the fact that the display will indicate
insufficient funds, people will still keep repeatedly trying to tapping
in.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is
part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making
changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently
closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.
--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:52:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is
part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making
changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently
closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 14:13:10 +0100
Recliner wrote:
I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

I wonder if a new mayor can come in fast enough to put a stop to this
nonsense or whether its took late?

--
Spud

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Monday, 30 March 2015 11:15:35 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:

What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

You mean like a small book, sort of Heart of Darkness size?

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 14:13:10 on
Thu, 9 Apr 2015, Recliner remarked:

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

OMG!!! TfL speak with forked tongue.

Is there no-one who can be relied upon any more...
--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at
06:39:38 on Thu, 9 Apr 2015, Offramp remarked:

What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

No I didn't. That was David Jackman.

--
Roland Perry

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:52:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is
part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making
changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently
closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

Pity you didn't take any pictures of the ticket machine queues. How long
were they?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:52:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is
part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making
changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently
closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

Pity you didn't take any pictures of the ticket machine queues. How long
were they?

Short in the western hall. In the other two, it was hard to separate the
queues for the machines and the ticket office open window(s) as they seemed
to run into each other. Basically, the ticket halls were almost full of
queuing people, or their travelling companions waiting for them. So I can't
be sure how long the queues for the machines were.

I'm also unclear if the new visitor centre also sells Tube tickets.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On 2015-04-09 13:19:00 +0000, d said:

I wonder if a new mayor can come in fast enough to put a stop to this
nonsense or whether its took late?

I don't agree that it is nonsense.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:52:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying
out improvement work at King_s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this
is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are
making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be
permanently closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

Pity you didn't take any pictures of the ticket machine queues. How
long were they?

Short in the western hall. In the other two, it was hard to separate the
queues for the machines and the ticket office open window(s) as they
seemed to run into each other. Basically, the ticket halls were almost
full of queuing people, or their travelling companions waiting for them.
So I can't be sure how long the queues for the machines were.

It's usually fairly clear which sort of queue is which IME.

I'm also unclear if the new visitor centre also sells Tube tickets.

Did you see staff hovering near ticket machines?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

wrote:
In article

, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:52:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying
out improvement work at King_s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this
is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are
making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be
permanently closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

Pity you didn't take any pictures of the ticket machine queues. How
long were they?

Short in the western hall. In the other two, it was hard to separate the
queues for the machines and the ticket office open window(s) as they
seemed to run into each other. Basically, the ticket halls were almost
full of queuing people, or their travelling companions waiting for them.
So I can't be sure how long the queues for the machines were.

It's usually fairly clear which sort of queue is which IME.

The ticket office queue snaked round the machines. I suppose that, had I
been trying to join one or other of the queues, I would have been able to
find the right one to join, but from where I was standing, it wasn't
obvious.


I'm also unclear if the new visitor centre also sells Tube tickets.

Did you see staff hovering near ticket machines?

There were staff around, but I was concentrating more on finding somewhere
to stand where I could see the full length of the ticket office queue,
without getting in the way. As so much of the ticket hall floor space was
taken up by the snaking queue, it didn't leave much of a corridor for
people to get hurry past. As I hadn't planned this as a photography
expedition, I hadn't brought along a camera with a wide angle lens, and was
just using a pocket camera, so it was hard to find somewhere where I could
get the whole queue into view.

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 19:08:47 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2015-04-09 13:19:00 +0000, d said:

I wonder if a new mayor can come in fast enough to put a stop to this
nonsense or whether its took late?

I don't agree that it is nonsense.

Well if the only criteria is saving money then no, I suppose its not. But
closing ticket offices and forcing people to either queue for a long time or
use a machine they might not understand is hardly helping the customer is it.
But then "Screw the paying customer, we don't care" has been Boris and TfLs
mantra for quite a while now.

--
Spud

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:33:21 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:52:37 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is
part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making
changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently
closed.
end quote

I got an email today saying that they are now closed.

I went along this morning and found:
- Western office closed, new visitor centre open
- Northern office, two windows open, long queue
- Main office, one window open, long queue

I also noticed separate posters promoting both Oyster and contactless
cards. I wonder if that confuses visitors?

Here's a few pics I took this morning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7651787464546/

Pity you didn't take any pictures of the ticket machine queues. How long
were they?

I've managed to find another picture from the Northern ticket hall,
which shows the ticket machines behind the snaking ticket office
queue. The machines seem to have a much shorter queue than the office:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...4546/lightbox/

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:34:49 +0100
Recliner wrote:
I've managed to find another picture from the Northern ticket hall,
which shows the ticket machines behind the snaking ticket office
queue. The machines seem to have a much shorter queue than the office:

Probably because the machines can't answer questions. A large proportion of
the people in that queue look like travellers who at a guess arn't familiar
with the tubes ticketing system.

--
Spud

Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
 

In message , at 13:34:49 on
Fri, 10 Apr 2015, Recliner remarked:
I've managed to find another picture from the Northern ticket hall,
which shows the ticket machines behind the snaking ticket office
queue. The machines seem to have a much shorter queue than the office:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...4546/lightbox/

We have to remember that all these passengers aren't regulars, and thus
when they don't find a ticket window open in the Western Ticket Hall
simply trudge off to find a ticket window elsewhere in the complex.

And don't just give up and try to battle with the ticket machines in the
Western Ticket Hall, where queues will be quite sensitive to whether a
flight of two E*'s arrived most recently ten minutes or an hour ago.
--
Roland Perry