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Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:
quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. -- Clive Page |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
Clive Page wrote:
TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that: quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. I thought I saw signs saying that the new enquiry office would be opening shortly? |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
Clive Page wrote:
I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I always use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a much higher chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even if it doesn't, it's unlikely to make fun of my accent. I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though ;). |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked: quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote "The" ticket hall? There are three. Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. And I've got a photo of the ticket machines with queues of a dozen people at each. Maybe there are more of the machine now? The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. The answer is perhaps to have some "Tourist Oyster" vending machines. I know the regular machines sell Oysters now, but some dedicated machines would be simpler. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. That was a "travel centre", more to do with selling theatre and tour-bus tickets. I wonder if they will have a more rail-ticket orientated approach when it reopens? -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page
wrote: TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that: quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors and others in operating the machines. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:50:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page wrote: TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that: quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King's Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors and others in operating the machines. Since there are almost always non-trivial queues at every King's Cross ticket machine how is that going to work, then? Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 29/03/2015 11:27, Clive Page wrote:
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Depends. For city transport, I tend to head for the machines these days. They are likely to speak a language I can understand (English-speakers have an advantage with this), be more tolerant of phase-book usage, and in many cases will spell out the various options. Also, experience suggests a machine is likely to admit the existence of singles, returns and travelcards (or even better 24 h tickets), rather than push me towards some kind of all-inclusive touristic ticket which involves paying for admission to museums I don't want to go to and discounts at restaurants I won't be eating at. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
"Scott" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page wrote: TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that: quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King's Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors and others in operating the machines. and (in theory) twice as many machines tim |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
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Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
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Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:14:37 UTC+1, Clank wrote:
Clive Page wrote: I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I always use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a much higher chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even if it doesn't, it's unlikely to make fun of my accent. I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though ;). Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English. And now with the new chip-cards you have to pay a premium for personal service at a ticket office window AND for the cost of the card. Rip-off - worse than in the UK. CJB |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Sunday, 29 March 2015 16:46:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:50:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page wrote: TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that: quote I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out improvement work at King's Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed. end quote Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or Brussels arrives. I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in using ticket machines in foreign cities before. Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed a few months ago. I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors and others in operating the machines. Since there are almost always non-trivial queues at every King's Cross ticket machine how is that going to work, then? Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office? -- Colin Rosenstiel AND when I go to Luton (or places north of the boundary of zone 6 - the outermost zone covered by my Freedom Pass) I need to purchase a/ an extension from zone 6, and b/ with a Senior Railcard discount. NO machine offers these. I usually get mine from the Blackfriars ThamesLink ticket office without problems. The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. CJB |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 29/03/2015 12:13, Clank wrote:
Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I always use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a much higher chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even if it doesn't, it's unlikely to make fun of my accent. I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though ;). Well so do I. But in two cities in the last few years (Paris and Rotterdam) I've found machines which won't take British credit or debit cards and I had to resort to feeding in literally dozens of small coins to buy my tickets. Fortunately I had just enough, but many tourists will have had experiences like this and decide a human is more helpful than a machine. But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are. -- Clive Page |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On 2015-03-29 21:47:54 +0000, CJB said:
Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English. You what? They have an English option. But even if they didn't, they are not at all hard to navigate. And now with the new chip-cards you have to pay a premium for personal service at a ticket office window AND for the cost of the card. Rip-off - worse than in the UK. CJB I am in favour of fees to use the ticket office, it will keep it available for those occasions when I want something the machine won't do, and so there won't be a queue of half an hour of people buying a simple outboundary Travelcard to London which they could easily have done at the machine. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Sunday, 29 March 2015 23:20:27 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office? Easy - TfL scrapped the sale of priv rate paper tickets for travel on the tube in Jan 2015. You have to buy a ticket from a NR ticket office or apply for a priv rate Oyster PAYG card. If the person in your party is not aware of this then I suggest they are pointed in the direction of ATOC Staff Travel (assuming they are a (former) BR / TOC employee. To be fair this was before January this year. He's a BR pensioner. I'll ask him next time I see him. Having to queue at Kings Cross is a complete PITA so I expect he'll be grateful. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at 00:27:08 on Mon, 30
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked: Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English. You what? They have an English option. But even if they didn't, they are not at all hard to navigate. One of the things I liked about them was a poster on the front giving an example of how to navigate the UI - and the example was a ticket from Centraal to Schiphol. On the other hand, I never did get the hang of the ticket machines on the Metro in Lisbon, which didn't have an "English" option. -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at
14:55:41 on Sun, 29 Mar 2015, CJB remarked: The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. I had a problem with that office. I needed a ticket that the machines didn't sell: because it was for "tomorrow" and "not from here". I was doing a triangular trip flying out of Gatwick and returning to Luton, and thought I'd buy the ticket for the once-upon-a-time free shuttle bus to the MML station in advance. Despite asking for what I wanted several times, the chap simply refused to comprehend. Eventually he issued me with a ticket from Parkway to the Airport. I gave up. -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
Clive Page wrote in
: But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are. Yes, Eurostar push Oyster but not hard enough. I think the problem is that it takes a lot of time to explain the various options to people - many other systems have just two choices (single or travelcard, and frequently no messing around with zones either). What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the basics of the system: 1) are you travelling within London? 2) do you have a contactless payment card? or 3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it 4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains. (You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London", how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.) David |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
CJB wrote:
AND when I go to Luton (or places north of the boundary of zone 6 - the outermost zone covered by my Freedom Pass) I need to purchase a/ an extension from zone 6, and b/ with a Senior Railcard discount. NO machine offers these. I usually get mine from the Blackfriars ThamesLink ticket office without problems. The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. CJB I routinely buy exactly such tickets from the machines at Overghround stations (including the Senior Railcard discount). Or, at least, I think I do. Am I dreaming? If so, my partner is too (unless I am dreaming her too). -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
Clive Page wrote in : But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are. I always assume that things being sold on trains, aeroplanes and in baggage reclaim halls are sold to a captive audience at some massive markup. After all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart, and I'd probably end up with an First Anytime Return on Terravision to Irkutsk Broadway when actually I could get a Network Card super-offpeak to Liverpool St instead. What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the basics of the system: 1) are you travelling within London? 2) do you have a contactless payment card? or 3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it 4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains. (You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London", how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.) Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about American Express? Can I put Euro on my Oyster card? What happens when I run out of money? Does my toddler need a card? At what age do they pay full fare? What does 'peak' mean? To name just a few. I can see why even British people go straight to the ticket office. Theo |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
Scott wrote:
I assume (a) the majority of passengers will not require assistance and (b) priority will be given to assisting the person at the head of the queue. Is there the equivalent of a 'supervisor to checkout 4' light that a passenger can press, or are they supposed to flap their arms in an agitated manner until a member of staff notices them? Theo |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 08:18:00 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 14:55:41 on Sun, 29 Mar 2015, CJB remarked: The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. I had a problem with that office. I needed a ticket that the machines didn't sell: because it was for "tomorrow" and "not from here". I was doing a triangular trip flying out of Gatwick and returning to Luton, and thought I'd buy the ticket for the once-upon-a-time free shuttle bus to the MML station in advance. Despite asking for what I wanted several times, the chap simply refused to comprehend. Eventually he issued me with a ticket from Parkway to the Airport. I gave up. Start speaking to them in French. You'll find their english language ability suddenly improves immensely. Works in Flanders anyway :) -- Spud |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
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Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at 10:25:09 on Mon,
30 Mar 2015, Theo Markettos remarked: But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are. I always assume that things being sold on trains, aeroplanes and in baggage reclaim halls are sold to a captive audience at some massive markup. I don't think that's true of these kinds of tickets, at least for the first two, and many of the permanent booths at airports. The prices are more likely to be published in advance, for you to get the correct amount of change, etc. After all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart, They'll be getting a commission, but not necessarily any more than an agent at the airport who also has to fund extra staff and premises. and I'd probably end up with an First Anytime Return on Terravision to Irkutsk Broadway when actually I could get a Network Card super-offpeak to Liverpool St instead. Apart from a CDR, the only tickets on that flow are Anytimes. What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the basics of the system: 1) are you travelling within London? 2) do you have a contactless payment card? or 3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it 4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains. (You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London", how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.) Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about American Express? Indeed; even the TfL website isn't sure exactly which foreign or prepay contactless cards they accept. -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 10:25, Theo Markettos wrote:
David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote: What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the basics of the system: 1) are you travelling within London? 2) do you have a contactless payment card? or 3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it 4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains. (You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London", how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.) Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about American Express? Can I put Euro on my Oyster card? What happens when I run out of money? Does my toddler need a card? At what age do they pay full fare? What does 'peak' mean? Indeed. Also: what about instructions for the DLR, the Tramlink, riverboats, national rail services, on all of which (in defined areas) you can use an Oyster card (and maybe a contactless one, for all I know). Other questions visitors might ask: - can I get a refund of an unexpired balance and my deposit when I leave - can 2 people travel on one Oyster card (they an on similar cards in some other cities) - what happens when I transfer from tube to rail/tram/bus etc or vice-versa? If I touch out and then in again do I get charged twice? The Oyster card system is so complicated that most of us natives don't understand even half of the rules, so pity the poor visitor (or even the rich one). -- Clive Page |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
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Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 00:27, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-29 21:47:54 +0000, CJB said: Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English. You what? They have an English option. But even if they didn't, they are not at all hard to navigate. And now with the new chip-cards you have to pay a premium for personal service at a ticket office window AND for the cost of the card. Rip-off - worse than in the UK. CJB I am in favour of fees to use the ticket office, it will keep it available for those occasions when I want something the machine won't do, and so there won't be a queue of half an hour of people buying a simple outboundary Travelcard to London which they could easily have done at the machine. I've given this counter-example before, but at London area railway stations it's not uncommon to find a queue for the TVM(s) and no queue at the ticket window - the latter, in most cases (with some exceptions), being unequipped to topup Oyster. I do wonder just how much retail commission the various TOCs threw away by not installing the requisite kit. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 29/03/2015 23:45, Clive Page wrote: On 29/03/2015 12:13, Clank wrote: Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I always use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a much higher chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even if it doesn't, it's unlikely to make fun of my accent. I've received some useful pronunciation lessons from ticket clerks - if one is open, willing and smiling it doesn't normally result in humiliation! I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though ;). Well so do I. But in two cities in the last few years (Paris and Rotterdam) I've found machines which won't take British credit or debit cards and I had to resort to feeding in literally dozens of small coins to buy my tickets. Fortunately I had just enough, but many tourists will have had experiences like this and decide a human is more helpful than a machine. I haven't come across an issue with UK cards in Paris (either RATP or SNCF machines). They don't take notes though. But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are. Lots of people simply don't think about it until they arrive. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Monday, 30 March 2015 16:30:40 UTC+1, Mizter T wrote:
On 30/03/2015 00:27, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-29 21:47:54 +0000, CJB said: Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English. You what? They have an English option. But even if they didn't, they are not at all hard to navigate. And now with the new chip-cards you have to pay a premium for personal service at a ticket office window AND for the cost of the card. Rip-off - worse than in the UK. CJB I am in favour of fees to use the ticket office, it will keep it available for those occasions when I want something the machine won't do, and so there won't be a queue of half an hour of people buying a simple outboundary Travelcard to London which they could easily have done at the machine. I've given this counter-example before, but at London area railway stations it's not uncommon to find a queue for the TVM(s) and no queue at the ticket window - the latter, in most cases (with some exceptions), being unequipped to topup Oyster. I do wonder just how much retail commission the various TOCs threw away by not installing the requisite kit. SWT and London Midland have recently withdrawn Oyster at their ticket windows, so they can't value any commission that much. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 11:13, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:25:09 on Mon, 30 Mar 2015, Theo Markettos remarked: But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are. I always assume that things being sold on trains, aeroplanes and in baggage reclaim halls are sold to a captive audience at some massive markup. I don't think that's true of these kinds of tickets, at least for the first two, and many of the permanent booths at airports. The prices are more likely to be published in advance, for you to get the correct amount of change, etc. I agree with that - for the UK at least. After all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart, They'll be getting a commission, but not necessarily any more than an agent at the airport who also has to fund extra staff and premises. The agent at the airport in the case of Stansted Express is StEx itself - they've a counter after customs for arrivals. That doesn't nullify your point at all though - as a 'city transfer' operator getting the airlines to do some of the selling for you is a plus, with the bonus that even if people don't buy on board they might have been familiarised with your name, or at least with the options available to them. and I'd probably end up with an First Anytime Return on Terravision to Irkutsk Broadway when actually I could get a Network Card super-offpeak to Liverpool St instead. Apart from a CDR, the only tickets on that flow are Anytimes. There's GroupSave, which could be useful, and isn't sold by the airlines. (There's first class too - ditto. The WebDuo and Business Plus fares don't count in this instance as they're only available online, not from the ticket office.) What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the basics of the system: 1) are you travelling within London? 2) do you have a contactless payment card? or 3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it 4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains. (You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London", how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.) Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about American Express? Indeed; even the TfL website isn't sure exactly which foreign or prepay contactless cards they accept. It's because they don't know - some work and some don't, it really does depend. A customer could ask their bank of course, but I wouldn't rely on them getting the correct answer. The alternative would be for TfL to simply bar all non-UK contactless payment cards, even though the majority would probably work. What would a hypothetical Mr R. Perry, head of TfL ticketing, do? (Bear in mind that 'head of ticketing' is not the same thing as the Commissioner for Transport, the Mayor, the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the SoS for Transport!) |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at 17:03:34 on Mon, 30 Mar
2015, Mizter T remarked: After all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart, They'll be getting a commission, but not necessarily any more than an agent at the airport who also has to fund extra staff and premises. The agent at the airport in the case of Stansted Express is StEx itself - they've a counter after customs for arrivals. StEx is just a brand of Abellio GA. Are you sure this is an AGA sales office, and not some sort of travel agent? -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 17:14, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:03:34 on Mon, 30 Mar 2015, Mizter T remarked: After all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart, They'll be getting a commission, but not necessarily any more than an agent at the airport who also has to fund extra staff and premises. The agent at the airport in the case of Stansted Express is StEx itself - they've a counter after customs for arrivals. StEx is just a brand of Abellio GA. Are you sure this is an AGA sales office, and not some sort of travel agent? Almost certain, yes. See: https://www.stanstedexpress.com/about-us/latest-news/2013/01/25/buy-stansted-express-tickets-at-the-airport They didn't inherit a sales desk from the previous operator, National Express, because NX sold both coach and rail tickets from the same sales counter in the arrivals hall. I've got an NX coach ticket printed on NR stock somewhere as a result, for that's how this desk did it. Do you remember Neil Williams asking FCC about their sales desk at Luton Airport, and getting a response from an FCC CS rep saying they knew nothing about it - of course it turned out that CS department simply weren't clued up about it and it was an FCC operation after all! |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 11:57, Clive Page wrote: [...] Indeed. Also: what about instructions for the DLR, the Tramlink, riverboats, national rail services, on all of which (in defined areas) you can use an Oyster card (and maybe a contactless one, for all I know). [...] Re contactless - yes to all the above except riverboats. Maybe they accept contactless in their own right (i.e. as a retailer) but it's not part of the TfL contactless acceptance. Two other exceptions are the cable car and the heritage Routemasters (the conductors' kit doesn't do it). FWIW Southern are actively promoting contactless for travel in the London zones now. They always were a bit ahead of the curve on such things, being an Oyster PAYG proponent back in ye day. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 29/03/2015 18:26, Mizter T wrote: On 29/03/2015 16:46, wrote: [...] Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office? I *think* priv fares will be on the hidden menu on ticket machines, accessible only by the roving staff. I think wrong, evidently! See Paul C's reply - paper priv fares are no more. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 11:13, Roland Perry wrote:
Indeed; even the TfL website isn't sure exactly which foreign or prepay contactless cards they accept. Isn't that just posterior covering? Most cards will work, but if they said "all", then someone would one day turn up with a People's Republic of Donbass bank card which isn't even recognised by the goat sellers of the Donbass People's Republic, never mind anywhere else. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:55:41 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote: AND when I go to Luton (or places north of the boundary of zone 6 - the outermost zone covered by my Freedom Pass) I need to purchase a/ an extension from zone 6, and b/ with a Senior Railcard discount. NO machine offers these. I usually get mine from the Blackfriars ThamesLink ticket office without problems. The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. CJB Blackfriars is the only station I've found -- so far -- where boundary zone tickets are available from the machines. The same machines at, for instance, Farringdon, don't do them. So, many of my travels have to be via Blackfriars! Indeed, I think two zone boundaries (six and... four?) are the *only* "tickets from somewhere else" options on those particular machines, unlike those at other stations. Richard. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:35:58 +0100, Mizter T
wrote: I haven't come across an issue with UK cards in Paris (either RATP or SNCF machines). They don't take notes though. RATP *used* to be trouble IMX, but now that everyone has an EMV card they are fine. Just as well, as without any complaint on here (well, I suppose this isn't uk.transport.paris) they have closed all/most of their ticket offices as well, as have Barcelona and Madrid. (Not forgetting all those networks where you have to go to the top of a mountain on the Solstice to get the smart card that is then rechargeable in millions of outlets.) Richard. |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at
18:57:41 on Mon, 30 Mar 2015, Arthur Figgis remarked: Indeed; even the TfL website isn't sure exactly which foreign or prepay contactless cards they accept. Isn't that just posterior covering? Most cards will work, but if they said "all", then someone would one day turn up with a People's Republic of Donbass bank card which isn't even recognised by the goat sellers of the Donbass People's Republic, never mind anywhere else. Have you actually looked at what they say? -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St. Pancras
In message , at 17:39:58 on Mon, 30 Mar
2015, Mizter T remarked: The agent at the airport in the case of Stansted Express is StEx itself - they've a counter after customs for arrivals. StEx is just a brand of Abellio GA. Are you sure this is an AGA sales office, and not some sort of travel agent? Almost certain, yes. See: https://www.stanstedexpress.com/about-us/latest-news/2013/01/25/buy-stansted-express-tickets-at-the-airport There's nothing in that announcement which persuades me it's an AGA-staffed operation. -- Roland Perry |
Chaos likely when they close ticket windows at King's Cross St.Pancras
On 30/03/2015 20:48, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:57:41 on Mon, 30 Mar 2015, Arthur Figgis remarked: Indeed; even the TfL website isn't sure exactly which foreign or prepay contactless cards they accept. Isn't that just posterior covering? Most cards will work, but if they said "all", then someone would one day turn up with a People's Republic of Donbass bank card which isn't even recognised by the goat sellers of the Donbass People's Republic, never mind anywhere else. Have you actually looked at what they say? Yes. I rather suspect it is isn't realistic to cover every possibility currently out there in the wild, so "nearly all" is a safe bet; the best is the enemy of the good, 80:20 and all that. Not bothering with contactless because someone might have an obscure (for London) card would seem silly - did ticket machines ever take Canadian dollars or Aruban florins anyway? -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
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