wrote in message
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In article ,
(tim.....) wrote:

wrote in message
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In article ,
(Tim Roll-Pickering) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

Under that rule I would not have been able to register until four
months after graduating. And that's having taken a "gappy year".
For most University students the October-after-they-became-21 would
be after they graduated, even if born between 1st Sept and whatever
the date in October was.

The market is shifting these days for all manner of reasons such that
I suspect most would now be caught for everything from four year
courses to those taking a year out (now more for raising finances
than anything else) to a growth in the mature and postgraduate
market. A few years ago I saw an academic making a traditional
assumption about the majority of first year students being too young
to remember X and checked the UCAS figures (which don't catch all
matures) and it suggested said academic doesn't spend much time on
campus.

Until the early 60s most male students (other than medics) were older
because they had to do National Service first.

I don't think that's true

I used to work with (actually was managed by) a guy who had done his
degree first and was then "eligible" for National Service.

And in order to avoid that National Service (because he was of
telly-tubby proportions) he took a job with a defence contractor
which made him exempt

My source was a friend, now dead, who was a contemporary at Sidney Sussex
College, Cambridge with David Owen who lived across the corridor. He said
Owen was the exception who had not already done National Service.

If American, that's the sort of scandal that sees your political career go
down the toilet

tim

In message , at 12:02:59 on Sun, 12 Apr
2015, tim..... remarked:
My source was a friend, now dead, who was a contemporary at Sidney Sussex
College, Cambridge with David Owen who lived across the corridor. He said
Owen was the exception who had not already done National Service.

If American, that's the sort of scandal that sees your political career
go down the toilet

Someone mentioned study medicine being an exemption, which is what David
Owen was doing.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:21:36 on Sun, 12
Apr 2015, Roland Perry remarked:
My source was a friend, now dead, who was a contemporary at Sidney Sussex
College, Cambridge with David Owen who lived across the corridor. He said
Owen was the exception who had not already done National Service.

If American, that's the sort of scandal that sees your political
career go down the toilet

Someone mentioned study medicine being an exemption, which is what
David Owen was doing.

And he was 21 on 2nd July 1959, about a fortnight after the end of his
last term, so would never have been able to vote in Cambridge (even if
being student had passed the residence test).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

The market is shifting these days for all manner of reasons such that I
suspect most would now be caught for everything from four year courses to
those taking a year out (now more for raising finances than anything else)
to a growth in the mature and postgraduate market.

I'd add "taking five years to GCSE" onto that as well.

It's two - or are you including every year from the start of secondary?

But remember that my original calculation required *at least one* of the
three 'delay factors' for a student to be 21 in their final year, and
according to Colin, to qualify to vote your birthday would have to be
before October, so even then most students wouldn't be eligible.

Ah - were students going off to uni at a younger age then? The standard
entry these days is 18 or higher.

--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 12:02:59 on Sun, 12 Apr
2015, tim..... remarked:
My source was a friend, now dead, who was a contemporary at Sidney
Sussex College, Cambridge with David Owen who lived across the
corridor. He said Owen was the exception who had not already done
National Service.

If American, that's the sort of scandal that sees your political career
go down the toilet

Someone mentioned study medicine being an exemption, which is what
David Owen was doing.

Precisely! It was all entirely legitimate. Owen was a GP before he was
elected to Parliament.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 12:21:36 on Sun,
12 Apr 2015, Roland Perry remarked:
My source was a friend, now dead, who was a contemporary at Sidney
Sussex College, Cambridge with David Owen who lived across the
corridor. He said Owen was the exception who had not already done
National Service.

If American, that's the sort of scandal that sees your political
career go down the toilet

Someone mentioned study medicine being an exemption, which is what
David Owen was doing.

And he was 21 on 2nd July 1959, about a fortnight after the end of
his last term, so would never have been able to vote in Cambridge
(even if being student had passed the residence test).

Indeed but my friend, the late Chris Bradford who would have been 21 in
November 1955, would have been able to vote.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 19:41:26 on Sat, 11
Apr 2015, Tim Roll-Pickering remarked:
Under that rule I would not have been able to register until four
months after graduating. And that's having taken a "gappy year". For
most University students the October-after-they-became-21 would be
after they graduated, even if born between 1st Sept and whatever the
date in October was.

10th then. 15th now.

The market is shifting these days for all manner of reasons such that I
suspect most would now be caught for everything from four year courses to
those taking a year out (now more for raising finances than anything
else) to a growth in the mature and postgraduate market.

I'd add "taking five years to GCSE" onto that as well.

But remember that my original calculation required *at least one* of
the three 'delay factors' for a student to be 21 in their final year,
and according to Colin, to qualify to vote your birthday would have
to be before October, so even then most students wouldn't be eligible.

So we can all now understand why the question of students being registered
to vote at their term time addresses only arose when the voting age was
lowered in 1970.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 05:03:27
on Mon, 13 Apr 2015, remarked:
My source was a friend, now dead, who was a contemporary at Sidney
Sussex College, Cambridge with David Owen who lived across the
corridor. He said Owen was the exception who had not already done
National Service.

If American, that's the sort of scandal that sees your political
career go down the toilet

Someone mentioned study medicine being an exemption, which is what
David Owen was doing.

And he was 21 on 2nd July 1959, about a fortnight after the end of
his last term, so would never have been able to vote in Cambridge
(even if being student had passed the residence test).

Indeed but my friend, the late Chris Bradford who would have been 21 in
November 1955, would have been able to vote.

But November is after October, and you said that the roll was drawn up
from people already 21 in October. Or is this an election in 1957 (for
which he may have qualified in October 1956).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 05:03:27
on Mon, 13 Apr 2015, remarked:

Owen was a GP before he was elected to Parliament.

Wonkypedia says he was a Registrar at St Thomas's.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:03:00 on Mon, 13
Apr 2015, Tim Roll-Pickering remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

The market is shifting these days for all manner of reasons such that I
suspect most would now be caught for everything from four year courses to
those taking a year out (now more for raising finances than anything else)
to a growth in the mature and postgraduate market.

I'd add "taking five years to GCSE" onto that as well.

It's two - or are you including every year from the start of secondary?

Yes, every year from entry age (nowadays 11).

The Direct Grant school I attended had the legacy of a start-at-ten
regime, and hence we entered into the second form. We took our O-Levels
in the fifth form, after four years. Unless in the slower streams, which
is where the "the Remove" (as in 'Bunter of') come in. Pupils in that
stream went 2-3-remove-4-5, taking five years.

But remember that my original calculation required *at least one* of the
three 'delay factors' for a student to be 21 in their final year, and
according to Colin, to qualify to vote your birthday would have to be
before October, so even then most students wouldn't be eligible.

Ah - were students going off to uni at a younger age then? The standard
entry these days is 18 or higher.

I was only just 18 (like David Owen in fact) having done 4yrs to
O-level, two to A-level and then a year spent partly doing the Cambridge
Exhibition/Scholarship exams. I wasn't doing the entrance exam because I
had applied to one of the approximately third of colleges which had
migrated to a regime of offering places based on A-Levels, although the
offers didn't come through until some way into Michaelmas term.

Those following the path above were in what was called the "7th form",
whereas the handful of people re-sitting their A-levels were in the
"Third year sixth".

Contemporaries who had also been in the non-remove stream (which was
three of the five-form-entry) but not applying to Oxbridge, could have
been going to University at 17.

Most of the 7th form traditionally left at Xmas, which was awkward
financially for the school because the numbers for grant-awarding
purposes were totted up at some date in the Spring. I was one of I think
four who stayed on, and did various 'special projects' one of which was
teaching myself to pass the Computer Science A-level which happened to
be the first year it was set. The school was keen for the stayers-on to
do at least one external exam as a sort of justification.

One final wrinkle was that our particular 6th Form concentrated on Maths
and Physics, and we took A-Level Maths as a kind of "serious mock" in
our Lower 6th year. That's the same age as most children today are doing
their GCSE maths.
--
Roland Perry