In message , at 11:13:01
on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

It's an obvious place to arrange for a turnback facility if the existing
lines from Liverpool St to Shenfield are blocked for some reasons and
you want to maintain a service through the core.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:42:44 on Sun, 31 May 2015,
Basil Jet remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

I've never heard any suggestion that HEx will extend past Paddington.
Every Crossrail map in years has shown service to T4, not T5.

We aren't talking about Crossrail - this is HEx services after 2023.

If HEx is to continue running fast, non-stop to Paddington on the main
lines, it won't have access to the Crossrail tunnels will it? And if HEx
does use the relief lines and run through London, it will presumably have
to stop at all the PED-equipped tunnel stations, which means having trains
with the same door spacing as the 345s (and no first class?). On that
basis, how could HEx, with no speed or comfort advantage, charge higher
fares than Crossrail?

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
11:13:01 on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

It's an obvious place to arrange for a turnback facility if the
existing lines from Liverpool St to Shenfield are blocked for some
reasons and you want to maintain a service through the core.

Maybe, but will the provision actually be made?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
11:13:01 on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:
Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

http://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/up...s-Sep-2013.pdf

Map on page 2.

That's the underlying processing capability. I've not seen any procurement
of the ticketing products by the current Greater Anglia franchise.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
11:13:01 on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

It's an obvious place to arrange for a turnback facility if the
existing lines from Liverpool St to Shenfield are blocked for some
reasons and you want to maintain a service through the core.

Maybe, but will the provision actually be made?

I'd have thought that if HEx ever did run through the Crossrail tunnels,
the Canary Wharf and ExCel branch would be of more interest, which would
suggest running through to Abbey Wood.

On 31/05/2015 10:41, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:51:18 +0100, Someone Somewhere
[snip]
It may also bring the prices down....

It would not do so because TfL are now tied into a process of
requiring DfT consent to changing fares on NR routes that are devolved
to TfL. They are not permitted to undercut parallel TOC services. This
is all set out in a recent TfL Fares Advice paper to the Mayor. There
are also similar provisions in the Crossrail Agreement but the DfT
have carefully ensured those clauses are redacted in the publicly
available version of the agreement. I only know they apply to
Crossrail because what TfL said in the Fares Advice Paper. Anyone
expecting a cheap fares bonanza if TfL take over their rail services
is going to be disappointed.


Very interesting stuff, thanks - I noticed the reference to that
regarding Crossrail in some document (poss. just a press release)
recently, I didn't realise this was a wider policy. The remaining AGA
(TOC) services via the Lea Valley seem to avoid any problem along those
lines by switching to the TfL tariff - is this just going to apply to
any new transfers to TfL control, or will it apply to LO on the Brighton
main line down to Croydon? (I will take a look at the full paper I
promise rather than just badgering you for summaries!)

On 31/05/2015 11:07, Recliner wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:41:19 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Stansted is really
outside TfL's influence and, to be honest, I don't think TfL should be
faffing around trying to run longer distance trains. There's more than
enough for them to fix within Greater London.

Why is there talk about extending Oyster to Luton and Gatwick airports
then? It makes no sense to do those two and not Stansted.

It is, after all, "London's third airport", which Luton isn't.

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains? I think a
lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were required. It
would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards if they already
came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey to London plus some
more travelling in London.


FWIW, Stansted has the highest percentage share for public transport in
terms of surface access (i.e. getting to or from the airport not in a
plane!).

Stansted Express walk-up tickets are kinda pricey - their 7-day and 30
day Advance tickets at £12 or £8 (bit less to/from Tottenham Hale) are
worth buying instead - unlike normal Advance tickets, they're valid on
any train on the specified day.
https://www.stanstedexpress.com/offers/advance-fares

This ticketing development came after Abellio took over the Anglia
franchise - it's not a development I would have expected under the
previous franchisee National Express Group, who preferred to keep
Stansted Express as a premium priced service whilst directing those
wishing for a less costly option onto their frequent coach services to
London (or Stratford). The new-ish tickets offer a way for Abellio to
compete against NatEx and Terravision.

On 31/05/2015 21:37, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 11:13:01
on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:
Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

http://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/up...s-Sep-2013.pdf

Map on page 2.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

£3 and no deposit, so enough to make one single journey, and top it up
when you want to make a seconds - which makes some sense because it
moves the queues away from the terminus stations.

Where do you get £3 from Roland? They all come with £10 credit at least:
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/visiting-london/visitor-oyster-card

You're probably getting confused with the *non visitor* (i.e. regular)
Oyster cards, which IIRC initially came without pre-loaded credit but
that later changed, and were available from standalone vending machines
in a few Tube stations - this arrangement doesn't exist any more as
regular Oyster cards can now be obtained from the larger sized Tube TVMs.

On 31/05/2015 12:02, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 11:38:15 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse them).

Er, I don't think so! Crossrail will be an intensive metro service
through the core, operating with ATO signalling and specifically
designed and high performance trains. There's not going to be anywhere
to reverse trains like you suggest.

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2015 12:02:03 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:38:15 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse them).

I can't see that happening at all. I also would not be surprised if
there are legal restrictions in the Crossrail agreements that prevent
services other than those franchised by TfL from running through the
tunnels.

When I did look at the Crossrail Operating Agreement recently I'm
pretty sure I saw some rather involved drafting pertaining to who
controlled services on Crossrail and also carve outs from the Railways
Act legislation. I'm speculating a bit but I'm not going back to read
a 230 page document!

I know HCon is jointly owned by HAL, but is there any similar arrangement
for the replacement Crossrail Heathrow services? And it gets more
interesting once the Heathrow western rail link is operational, as that
will obviously run to T5. I've lost track of whether through services are
planned.