On 02/06/2015 12:18, Bill Borland wrote:
In article 1633203475454892803.412597recliner.ng-
, Recliner
writes
wrote:
How can you "expect" people to make use of the web if they do not know
how to? Those commuting might know, but not everyone can do these things?

It took me less time to find that page than it probably took you to post
your original query, and I'm a holder of a retired Freedom Pass, not a
commuter. Incidentally, I'd hope the gates have been reprogrammed so that
they'd know the validity of your pass.

I do agree that the staff should have known, but the rules only changed on
Sunday, and a lot of other things have just changed as well. This was
important to you, but it almost certainly was low on their priority list of
new stuff to learn. As it was important to you, you should have checked it
yourself first online -- it only takes seconds.

Freedom Pass holders are no longer young. I did not even possess a
computer until some years after I retired. "Looking things up on the
Web" seems to have become second nature to all you young ones, but
unfortunately there is a great deal of truth in the adage "You can't
teach an old dog new tricks". It would take me much more than
"seconds" to find information that way - computers are inventions of
the Devil and must be approached very carefully - they might bite.

And that doesn't even begin to consider that the elderly might have
poor eyesight, arthritic fingers, various other defects (I note that
the OP holds a "disabled" Freedom Pass) making it difficult to use a
computer.

We do our best to "keep up" but it isn't always easy.

So as well as giving you free travel, the London Councils and TfL should
expend large amounts of money telling you exactly what available when
you can't even bother expend the effort to use a computer and/or
telephone to find out? In both cases there are plenty of options to
make the technology easier to use for those differently abled.

Of course, you may also view telephones as an instrument of beelzebub in
which case do you think that TfL should also offer a semaphore or smoke
signal (although wasn't that a bit foreign?) enquiry service?

I'm all for equality but some people seem to need a ridiculous amount of
hand holding.

If you can't be bothered to find out, why not travel with an expectation
of paying for it and being pleasantly surprised, and maybe grateful, if
it's free?

On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:03:26 +0100, Roger
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Jun 2015 01:39:38 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

The rules are rather involved now.

A similar situation applies to Cheshunt. You can travel there at any
time using a Freedom Pass but only on London Overground trains that
run via Seven Sisters. You cannot travel to / from Cheshunt on a
Greater Anglia train at any time regardless of the route their train
takes. Similarly you cannot use a Freedom Pass north of Enfield Lock
on the Greater Anglia services that run via Tottenham Hale.

And on the route between Harrow & Wealdstone and Clapham
Junction it's only a Disabled Pass which is allowed on a
Southern train before 09:00 weekdays.

Exactly. For all sorts of historical reasons, the rules are
complicated, and they're not displayed on station posters. If the full
set of rules were on posters, the font would have to be so small, that
Freedom Pass would complain that they couldn't read them.

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 12:18:11 +0100, Bill Borland
wrote:

In article 1633203475454892803.412597recliner.ng-
, Recliner
writes
wrote:
How can you "expect" people to make use of the web if they do not know
how to? Those commuting might know, but not everyone can do these things?

It took me less time to find that page than it probably took you to post
your original query, and I'm a holder of a retired Freedom Pass, not a
commuter. Incidentally, I'd hope the gates have been reprogrammed so that
they'd know the validity of your pass.

I do agree that the staff should have known, but the rules only changed on
Sunday, and a lot of other things have just changed as well. This was
important to you, but it almost certainly was low on their priority list of
new stuff to learn. As it was important to you, you should have checked it
yourself first online -- it only takes seconds.

Freedom Pass holders are no longer young. I did not even possess a
computer until some years after I retired. "Looking things up on the
Web" seems to have become second nature to all you young ones, but
unfortunately there is a great deal of truth in the adage "You can't
teach an old dog new tricks". It would take me much more than
"seconds" to find information that way - computers are inventions of
the Devil and must be approached very carefully - they might bite.

And that doesn't even begin to consider that the elderly might have
poor eyesight, arthritic fingers, various other defects (I note that
the OP holds a "disabled" Freedom Pass) making it difficult to use a
computer.

We do our best to "keep up" but it isn't always easy.

I'm also retired, and am grateful to receive the very generous Freedom
Pass. I'm quite happy to research the rules and restrictions, just as
younger people have to try and grasp the far more complex Oyster
rules. Looking up the latest changes on my iPad took a matter of
seconds, and required no computer skills.

Bill Borland wrote:
And that doesn't even begin to consider that the elderly might have
poor eyesight, arthritic fingers, various other defects (I note that
the OP holds a "disabled" Freedom Pass) making it difficult to use a
computer.

My brother asked for a laptop for his 70th birthday. He had never usd a
keyboard before - nor even a typewriter - and has various problems with
hands and fingers after a lifetime of driving for a living. He is
getting there with the internet. Voice recognition (eg "OK Google") is
still not Science-Fiction-style colloquially perfect but it's a boon for
those who are willing to try.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

"Robin" wrote:
Bill Borland wrote:
And that doesn't even begin to consider that the elderly might have
poor eyesight, arthritic fingers, various other defects (I note that
the OP holds a "disabled" Freedom Pass) making it difficult to use a
computer.

My brother asked for a laptop for his 70th birthday. He had never usd a
keyboard before - nor even a typewriter - and has various problems with
hands and fingers after a lifetime of driving for a living. He is
getting there with the internet. Voice recognition (eg "OK Google") is
still not Science-Fiction-style colloquially perfect but it's a boon for
those who are willing to try.

Actually, I'm amazed at just how good OK Google is (much better than Siri).
Having dabbled with voice recognition in various guises over the decades,
this one is an order or magnitude better, though as you say, still not
quite perfect. I use it mainly with my phone to avoid typing more than
necessary on the tiny onscreen keyboard.

In message
-septem
ber.org, at 14:36:53 on Tue, 2 Jun 2015, Recliner
remarked:

Actually, I'm amazed at just how good OK Google is (much better than Siri).

I know it's fashionable to knock Microsoft, but I'm told by some who has
used all the mobile platforms that Windows 8.1's Cortana is the best of
the bunch.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 20:40:55 on Tue,
2 Jun 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

I just know I'm a long way off from getting one as
the entitlement age recedes very further into the distance.

Is it changing? Sadly the page which might tell us has gone:

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/ser...ty/default.htm
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septem
ber.org, at 14:36:53 on Tue, 2 Jun 2015, Recliner remarked:

Actually, I'm amazed at just how good OK Google is (much better than Siri).

I know it's fashionable to knock Microsoft, but I'm told by some who has
used all the mobile platforms that Windows 8.1's Cortana is the best of the bunch.

Ah, I've not tried that one. It could well be so -- MSFT does get
somethings belatedly right.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:40:55 on Tue,
2 Jun 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

I just know I'm a long way off from getting one as
the entitlement age recedes very further into the distance.

Is it changing? Sadly the page which might tell us has gone:

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/ser...ty/default.htm

The full Freedom Pass has the same entitlement age as the national bus
pass, which is the steadily-rising female retirement age (currently about
63). But Londoners aged from 60 upwards get a 60+ Oyster card which has the
same goodies within London.

In message
-septemb
er.org, at 06:51:41 on Wed, 3 Jun 2015, Recliner
remarked:
Actually, I'm amazed at just how good OK Google is (much better than Siri).

I know it's fashionable to knock Microsoft, but I'm told by some who has
used all the mobile platforms that Windows 8.1's Cortana is the best of the bunch.

Ah, I've not tried that one. It could well be so -- MSFT does get
somethings belatedly right.

It's also much newer than the other two.
--
Roland Perry