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Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
I've been reading some of the old threads in this newsgroup along with
Clive's Piccadilly Line page (which FINALLY helped me figure out how the Heathrow loop works), and I was just wondering if there's any news on what sort of Piccadilly Line services will be run to Heathrow after Terminal 5 is opened. Brad |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
In article , TheOneKEA
writes I've been reading some of the old threads in this newsgroup along with Clive's Piccadilly Line page (which FINALLY helped me figure out how the Heathrow loop works), and I was just wondering if there's any news on what sort of Piccadilly Line services will be run to Heathrow after Terminal 5 is opened. Well, the plan *was* that half the trains would continue to run round the loop, not serving T5, while the other half would run to Terminal 5 and so would miss out T4. Of course, it could well all have changed by now. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes I've been reading some of the old threads in this newsgroup along with Clive's Piccadilly Line page (which FINALLY helped me figure out how the Heathrow loop works), and I was just wondering if there's any news on what sort of Piccadilly Line services will be run to Heathrow after Terminal 5 is opened. Well, the plan *was* that half the trains would continue to run round the loop, not serving T5, while the other half would run to Terminal 5 and so would miss out T4. We've been told that it will be about 1/3 round the loop via T4 and 2/3 to T5. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message ... We've been told that it will be about 1/3 round the loop via T4 and 2/3 to T5. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) And I'd bet you'll still get people getting on the wrong train.... Mike |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"Mike Hudgell" wrote in message ...
"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message ... We've been told that it will be about 1/3 round the loop via T4 and 2/3 to T5. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) And I'd bet you'll still get people getting on the wrong train.... Mike So I suppose changing the destination boards to say "Heathrow T4" and "Heathrow T5" with lots of posters all over the Piccadilly (even the rolling stock) stating that all Heathrow trains pass Terminals 1, 2 and 3 wouldn't help? Brad |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"TheOneKEA" wrote in message om... "Mike Hudgell" wrote in message ... "Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message ... We've been told that it will be about 1/3 round the loop via T4 and 2/3 to T5. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) And I'd bet you'll still get people getting on the wrong train.... Mike So I suppose changing the destination boards to say "Heathrow T4" and "Heathrow T5" with lots of posters all over the Piccadilly (even the rolling stock) stating that all Heathrow trains pass Terminals 1, 2 and 3 wouldn't help? Welllll, they might, but you have to account for the punters (sometimes) awe inspiring ability to ignore information. A case in point, Arnos westbound this morning, train from Cockfosters pulls into P4. A reverser was standing in P3 waiting to depart westbound, for the 2 or 3 minutes it took me to walk along the platform from the rear car to the footbridge over to the depot, the SA was making constant, perfectly clear PA anouncments that the train in P3 would be the first to depart westbound. To a man and woman, the passengers on the train in P4 ignored them - until the door chimes on the P3 train started - which was a signal for about 2 dozen eager commuters to cast their Metros aside and hurl themselves blindly across the platform in attempt to beat the doors and save themselves that vital 90 seconds getting to their destination. The driver on the P3 train had to re-open to prevent the punters getting caught in the doors but at least one managed to beat him to it and actually ran into a closed door. Of course, once the advance party had made the cross platform trip it gave shed loads of others the same idea, so the train had to wait for a gap in the herd to get the doors closed again, causing yet more delay. It all could have been avoided if those who wanted to catch the first train had heeded the SA's PA announcments whilst the regulator was getting his signals sorted out. -- Cheers, Steve. If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have given us the platinum credit card... Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply. |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
Steve Dulieu wrote:
"TheOneKEA" wrote in message om... "Mike Hudgell" wrote in message ... "Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message ... We've been told that it will be about 1/3 round the loop via T4 and 2/3 to T5. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) And I'd bet you'll still get people getting on the wrong train.... Mike So I suppose changing the destination boards to say "Heathrow T4" and "Heathrow T5" with lots of posters all over the Piccadilly (even the rolling stock) stating that all Heathrow trains pass Terminals 1, 2 and 3 wouldn't help? Welllll, they might, but you have to account for the punters (sometimes) awe inspiring ability to ignore information. A case in point, Arnos westbound this morning, train from Cockfosters pulls into P4. A reverser was standing in P3 waiting to depart westbound, for the 2 or 3 minutes it took me to walk along the platform from the rear car to the footbridge over to the depot, the SA was making constant, perfectly clear PA anouncments that the train in P3 would be the first to depart westbound. To a man and woman, the passengers on the train in P4 ignored them - until the door chimes on the P3 train started - which was a signal for about 2 dozen eager commuters to cast their Metros aside and hurl themselves blindly across the platform in attempt to beat the doors and save themselves that vital 90 seconds getting to their destination. The driver on the P3 train had to re-open to prevent the punters getting caught in the doors but at least one managed to beat him to it and actually ran into a closed door. Of course, once the advance party had made the cross platform trip it gave shed loads of others the same idea, so the train had to wait for a gap in the herd to get the doors closed again, causing yet more delay. It all could have been avoided if those who wanted to catch the first train had heeded the SA's PA announcments whilst the regulator was getting his signals sorted out. The SA's announcements might have been perfectly clear to you on the platform, but that doesn't mean they were clearly audible on the train in P4. Did the driver on P4 make an announcement that the P3 train would depart first? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"Richard J." wrote in message ...
Steve Dulieu wrote: "TheOneKEA" wrote in message So I suppose changing the destination boards to say "Heathrow T4" and "Heathrow T5" with lots of posters all over the Piccadilly (even the rolling stock) stating that all Heathrow trains pass Terminals 1, 2 and 3 wouldn't help? Welllll, they might, but you have to account for the punters (sometimes) awe inspiring ability to ignore information. A case in point, Arnos westbound this morning, train from Cockfosters pulls into P4. A reverser was standing in P3 waiting to depart westbound, for the 2 or 3 minutes it took me to walk along the platform from the rear car to the footbridge over to the depot, the SA was making constant, perfectly clear PA anouncments that the train in P3 would be the first to depart westbound. To a man and woman, the passengers on the train in P4 ignored them - until the door chimes on the P3 train started - which was a signal for about 2 dozen eager commuters to cast their Metros aside and hurl themselves blindly across the platform in attempt to beat the doors and save themselves that vital 90 seconds getting to their destination. The driver on the P3 train had to re-open to prevent the punters getting caught in the doors but at least one managed to beat him to it and actually ran into a closed door. Of course, once the advance party had made the cross platform trip it gave shed loads of others the same idea, so the train had to wait for a gap in the herd to get the doors closed again, causing yet more delay. It all could have been avoided if those who wanted to catch the first train had heeded the SA's PA announcments whilst the regulator was getting his signals sorted out. The SA's announcements might have been perfectly clear to you on the platform, but that doesn't mean they were clearly audible on the train in P4. Did the driver on P4 make an announcement that the P3 train would depart first? That's a valid point. Just because the SA's PA was audible in the station doesn't mean it was audible in the train. Having never been to Arnos Grove, I can't vouch for the volume and clarity of the PA system there anyway. Brad |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"TheOneKEA" wrote in message om... "Richard J." wrote in message ... Steve Dulieu wrote: "TheOneKEA" wrote in message So I suppose changing the destination boards to say "Heathrow T4" and "Heathrow T5" with lots of posters all over the Piccadilly (even the rolling stock) stating that all Heathrow trains pass Terminals 1, 2 and 3 wouldn't help? Welllll, they might, but you have to account for the punters (sometimes) awe inspiring ability to ignore information. A case in point, Arnos westbound this morning, train from Cockfosters pulls into P4. A reverser was standing in P3 waiting to depart westbound, for the 2 or 3 minutes it took me to walk along the platform from the rear car to the footbridge over to the depot, the SA was making constant, perfectly clear PA anouncments that the train in P3 would be the first to depart westbound. To a man and woman, the passengers on the train in P4 ignored them - until the door chimes on the P3 train started - which was a signal for about 2 dozen eager commuters to cast their Metros aside and hurl themselves blindly across the platform in attempt to beat the doors and save themselves that vital 90 seconds getting to their destination. The driver on the P3 train had to re-open to prevent the punters getting caught in the doors but at least one managed to beat him to it and actually ran into a closed door. Of course, once the advance party had made the cross platform trip it gave shed loads of others the same idea, so the train had to wait for a gap in the herd to get the doors closed again, causing yet more delay. It all could have been avoided if those who wanted to catch the first train had heeded the SA's PA announcments whilst the regulator was getting his signals sorted out. The SA's announcements might have been perfectly clear to you on the platform, but that doesn't mean they were clearly audible on the train in P4. Did the driver on P4 make an announcement that the P3 train would depart first? That's a valid point. Just because the SA's PA was audible in the station doesn't mean it was audible in the train. Having never been to Arnos Grove, I can't vouch for the volume and clarity of the PA system there anyway. I could here them perfectly clearly before I alighted from the rear car, and yes, the P4 driver made an announcment as did the P3 driver before pressing the door close button. For those of you unfamiliar with the '73 refurbs, pressing the door close button starts the door chimes, the doors actually start to close 1.5 seconds after the driver releases the button. -- Cheers, Steve. If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have given us the platinum credit card... Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply. |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
In article , Steve
Dulieu writes Welllll, they might, but you have to account for the punters (sometimes) awe inspiring ability to ignore information. I think that comes about from long experience of seeing a platform indication that the next train to depart is the one on platform X and then seeing the train on platform Y leave first. This sort of thing seems to happen very often at places like Heathrow123 and Edgware Road (circle line) where you can actually see the two trains on either sides of the same platform. -- Clive Page |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
|
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ...
In article , TheOneKEA writes I've been reading some of the old threads in this newsgroup along with Clive's Piccadilly Line page (which FINALLY helped me figure out how the Heathrow loop works), and I was just wondering if there's any news on what sort of Piccadilly Line services will be run to Heathrow after Terminal 5 is opened. Well, the plan *was* that half the trains would continue to run round the loop, not serving T5, while the other half would run to Terminal 5 and so would miss out T4. Of course, it could well all have changed by now. I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they reversed the direction that trains go to T4 when T5 opens and the train terminates at T4. So all trains initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to T4 and there other half going to T5 so you';d have a simple split on the line diagram. This would also mean that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross. Just my 2ps worth. B2003 |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"Boltar" wrote in message
om... I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they reversed the direction that trains go to T4 when T5 opens and the train terminates at T4. So all trains initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to T4 and there other half going to T5 so you';d have a simple split on the line diagram. This would also mean that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross. But it *would* mean that someone who wanted to go to T5 but ended up on a T4 train would have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross, which they wouldn't under the current plan. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Boltar" wrote in message om... I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they reversed the direction that trains go to T4 when T5 opens and the train terminates at T4. So all trains initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to T4 and there other half going to T5 so you';d have a simple split on the line diagram. This would also mean that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross. But it *would* mean that someone who wanted to go to T5 but ended up on a T4 train would have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross, which they wouldn't under the current plan. No , they'd just got back to T123. What I'm suggesting is T5 ----\ \---T123--- Hatton cross --- / T4 ----/ B2003 |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
|
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
In ,
Paul Corfield typed: .... your proposal reverses the direction of the *single track* loop line between T123 and T4. You are assuming that the train reverses at T4 and goes back to T123. This would mean bi-directional working on a single track line which would severely reduce the headway to T4. It would *increase* the headway - trains would not be able to follow each other so closely. Bob |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
In article , Paul Corfield
writes but your proposal reverses the direction of the *single track* loop line between T123 and T4. You are assuming that the train reverses at T4 and goes back to T123. This would mean bi-directional working on a single track line which would severely reduce the headway to T4. Increase the headway, reduce the frequency. According to a WTT I have, the running time from T4 to T123 is 5 minutes. So even with stepping back of drivers, you're talking at least 11 minutes between trains, so 5.5 tph total. In that WTT, the service on the Heathrow branch is 12 to 15 tph for most of the time (including the peaks). If one-third of the trains served T4, as is planned, that would be 4 to 5 tph. So it's about doable, but it would be a very fragile timetable. If a train is delayed for less than 5 minutes, the next T4 train won't be able to get out of the platform at T123 and on to the single line before it blocks the next T5 train. So you'll need to change destinations, which means announcements and annoyance as people get off with all their luggage so that they can get on the next one. I appreciate you can argue about whether to go clockwise or anti-clockwise round the loop but it is too late to change things now. Anti-clockwise means rebuilding at Hatton Cross, and eastbound trains from T4 having to cross the path of westbound trains. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
... Anti-clockwise means rebuilding at Hatton Cross, and eastbound trains from T4 having to cross the path of westbound trains. I don't have my Quail map to hand, but ISTR the easiest way to reverse the Heathrow loop would be to use existing structures at Northfields or Acton to switch the directions of the whole branch. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Any updates on Piccadilly Line services to Heathrow?
In article , John Rowland
writes I don't have my Quail map to hand, but ISTR the easiest way to reverse the Heathrow loop would be to use existing structures at Northfields or Acton to switch the directions of the whole branch. I don't think it's workable at Acton. But perhaps at Northfield - currently you've got something like this (from memory): --------------------------------*-*----------------- X ############# ------------\ /-------*-*----------------- \ / \----] / [------*-*----------------- / X ############# Depot ---/ /--------*-*----------------- access / tracks ----/ and you could turn it into something like this: ------*------------S------------*-*----------------- \ X ############# ----*-E-*---\ /-------*-*----------------- \ \ / \-----\ \----] / [------*-*----------------- \ / X ############# Depot ---*-----/ /--------*-*----------------- access / tracks ----------/ where S would be a storage track to compensate for the loss of some depot space, and E would be an emergency crossover (S could also be used as an emergency crossover). -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
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