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Chiltern to Paddington
On Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:01:12 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: On 11/08/2015 15:33, Basil Jet wrote: What use is a diversionary route that only a fraction of the drivers have the route knowledge for? Bearing in mind that, to keep the route on their card, a driver needs to drive over it at *least* every six months, Drive over it or travel in the cab ? and Chiltern run over it approximately 260 days a year, that gives a theoretical maximum of 130 drivers who can sign it...assuming you have a different driver every day. Chiltern has approximately 300 drivers, so short of running two or three trains a day to/from Paddington (which there isn't the stock for, let alone paths), it's impossible for the entire complement to sign the route. With the route being limited to two trains per hour each way due to the single line, it's just as easy to change drivers at West Ruislip and implement stepping back. Cheers, Barry |
Chiltern to Paddington
On 12/08/15 18:57, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\08\10 21:54, Barry Salter wrote: The latest iteration of the October timetable has been uploaded into ITPS, so is now available in journey planners, and it's a fairly major recast in the off-peak! October of which year? The Chiltern website says the current timetable is valid until this December. The full proposed October 2015 timetable is available from http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/october-timetable "On 26th October we shall commence the operation of services between Oxford Parkway and London Marylebone" Roger |
Chiltern to Paddington
On 13/08/2015 00:11, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:01:12 +0100, Barry Salter wrote: On 11/08/2015 15:33, Basil Jet wrote: What use is a diversionary route that only a fraction of the drivers have the route knowledge for? Bearing in mind that, to keep the route on their card, a driver needs to drive over it at *least* every six months, Drive over it or travel in the cab ? The wording in the Rule Book is: "When working a train, you must have the necessary knowledge for the entire route over which you are to work, or be accompanied by a competent conductor driver." The precise details are left to individual operators, but both practical handling and theory are assessed. Cheers, Barry |
Chiltern to Paddington
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT), Chris
wrote: On Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:55:28 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: Yes, I suppose so, though at least HS2 will now be in tunnel in the Park Royal area, rather than taking over that old GWR Oxford line alignment to Northolt. But once Crossrail and the OOC station are built, I wonder if a possible route to Paddington with available capacity will remain? Think laterally - what'll be at OOC station? Yup, Crossrail & a connection to LHR. Won't that be enough to attract Chiltern?. Quite probably, with no requirement for Paddington. Also, someone up-thread suggested Risborough/Aylesbury - why not extend that northwards & eastwards when the new EastWest comes online & run to Milton Keynes or Bedford? That's my thinking. The stretch of track between Old Oak Common and Northolt Junction is a beautifully engineered RoW. It was completed in 1906 and once saw Castle Hauled express trains to Birmingham. The line is almost straight with an almost imperceptible curve past Hanger Lane. In 1948 it was joined by the LPTB Central Line. Planned pre WWII this was part of an anti-recession, job creation exercise. The issue with this section is that there in insufficient demand from South Ruislip. Et al, for trains to Marylebone, Paddington (or OOC) and the TfL Central Line service. The current arrangements thru the Ruislip Stations, along with the Greenford to West Ealing branch are messy to say the least. But there is no quick fix. At first glance a Crossrail branch to say, Gerrards Cross, seems attractive. But, Crossrail and the Central Line to the West End and City is overkill. Could Crossrail replace the Central Line? Maybe, but it would only make sense if Crossrail also took over the Central Line branch to Ealing Broadway. That would mean cutting the Central Line back to White City. This in turn would mean the loss of access to Ruislip Depot. So, the Depot facilities at the eastern end of the Central Line would need beefing up. Can this section justify frequent 10 car trains? And what of the Greenford to west Ealing section, it would become an isolated diesel branch between two Crossrail routes. Perhaps the Central Line is better left as it is. What is the demand for trains between West Ealing and Greenford anyway? Would it make a sensible Central Line branch? But, then, the Greenford branch also sees use for mainline diversions. I doubt Network Rail want tube trains in the way of those! The route from Ruislip into Paddington is due to be severed at OOC if the HS2 plans go ahead. And in truth the Central Line serves this stretch adequately. Chiltern Railways are developing their services thru the old GCGW section very well. However, Interchange between Chiltern Railways and the Central Line is rather inconvenient. The nationalized railway pulled one of their platform widening stunts at West Ruislip. The platform was extended over the platform loop but the canopy was not. Moreover the Central Line was left with its isolated island platform. Passengers alighting from Central Line trains at West Ruislip wanting to continue to Denham and beyond, have to climb and descend stairs despite the fact their train is sitting right next to the down mainline platform. Would it be so hard to rebuild South Ruislip and West Ruislip as normal four platform stations that allowed interchange across the middle island to the down route to Denham et al? That would at least tidy up the stations and give some focus to passenger convenience. What of the Greenford branch? A possible use for tram-trains perhaps? But, where would they go from their termini? Maybe this will become another isolated section of the Overground. |
Chiltern to Paddington
e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT), Chris wrote: On Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:55:28 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: Yes, I suppose so, though at least HS2 will now be in tunnel in the Park Royal area, rather than taking over that old GWR Oxford line alignment to Northolt. But once Crossrail and the OOC station are built, I wonder if a possible route to Paddington with available capacity will remain? Think laterally - what'll be at OOC station? Yup, Crossrail & a connection to LHR. Won't that be enough to attract Chiltern?. Quite probably, with no requirement for Paddington. Also, someone up-thread suggested Risborough/Aylesbury - why not extend that northwards & eastwards when the new EastWest comes online & run to Milton Keynes or Bedford? That's my thinking. The stretch of track between Old Oak Common and Northolt Junction is a beautifully engineered RoW. It was completed in 1906 and once saw Castle Hauled express trains to Birmingham. The line is almost straight with an almost imperceptible curve past Hanger Lane. In 1948 it was joined by the LPTB Central Line. Planned pre WWII this was part of an anti-recession, job creation exercise. The issue with this section is that there in insufficient demand from South Ruislip. Et al, for trains to Marylebone, Paddington (or OOC) and the TfL Central Line service. The current arrangements thru the Ruislip Stations, along with the Greenford to West Ealing branch are messy to say the least. But there is no quick fix. At first glance a Crossrail branch to say, Gerrards Cross, seems attractive. But, Crossrail and the Central Line to the West End and City is overkill. Could Crossrail replace the Central Line? Maybe, but it would only make sense if Crossrail also took over the Central Line branch to Ealing Broadway. That would mean cutting the Central Line back to White City. This in turn would mean the loss of access to Ruislip Depot. So, the Depot facilities at the eastern end of the Central Line would need beefing up. Can this section justify frequent 10 car trains? And what of the Greenford to west Ealing section, it would become an isolated diesel branch between two Crossrail routes. Perhaps the Central Line is better left as it is. What is the demand for trains between West Ealing and Greenford anyway? Would it make a sensible Central Line branch? But, then, the Greenford branch also sees use for mainline diversions. I doubt Network Rail want tube trains in the way of those! The route from Ruislip into Paddington is due to be severed at OOC if the HS2 plans go ahead. I think this is no longer the case, as I stated earlier in this thread. You must be thinking of an earlier iteration of the HS2 plans. And in truth the Central Line serves this stretch adequately. The Crossrail trains would serve, at most, one of the Ruislip stations. Chiltern Railways are developing their services thru the old GCGW section very well. However, Interchange between Chiltern Railways and the Central Line is rather inconvenient. The nationalized railway pulled one of their platform widening stunts at West Ruislip. The platform was extended over the platform loop but the canopy was not. Moreover the Central Line was left with its isolated island platform. Passengers alighting from Central Line trains at West Ruislip wanting to continue to Denham and beyond, have to climb and descend stairs despite the fact their train is sitting right next to the down mainline platform. But only 1 tph? Would it be so hard to rebuild South Ruislip and West Ruislip as normal four platform stations that allowed interchange across the middle island to the down route to Denham et al? That would at least tidy up the stations and give some focus to passenger convenience. Hardly justified for the limited numbers interchangeing there. What of the Greenford branch? A possible use for tram-trains perhaps? But, where would they go from their termini? Maybe this will become another isolated section of the Overground. Yes, it no longer fits in the GWR network, but would be hard to include in the Central or Chiltern lines. Maybe run it as the planned shuttle, but under Chiltern? |
Chiltern to Paddington
On 15/08/2015 14:50, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT), Chris wrote: On Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:55:28 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: Yes, I suppose so, though at least HS2 will now be in tunnel in the Park Royal area, rather than taking over that old GWR Oxford line alignment to Northolt. But once Crossrail and the OOC station are built, I wonder if a possible route to Paddington with available capacity will remain? And what of the Greenford to west Ealing section, it would become an isolated diesel branch between two Crossrail routes. Perhaps the Central Line is better left as it is. What is the demand for trains between West Ealing and Greenford anyway? Would it make a sensible Central Line branch? But, then, the Greenford branch also sees use for mainline diversions. I doubt Network Rail want tube trains in the way of those! The route from Ruislip into Paddington is due to be severed at OOC if the HS2 plans go ahead. And in truth the Central Line serves this stretch adequately. What of the Greenford branch? A possible use for tram-trains perhaps? But, where would they go from their termini? Maybe this will become another isolated section of the Overground. Assuming paths could be found, might it be viable to have a (hourly) Chiltern service from, say, Princes Risborough to Ealing Broadway via the Greenford line. One purpose would be for connections to Heathrow. |
Chiltern to Paddington
BevanPrice wrote:
On 15/08/2015 14:50, e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT), Chris wrote: On Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:55:28 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: Yes, I suppose so, though at least HS2 will now be in tunnel in the Park Royal area, rather than taking over that old GWR Oxford line alignment to Northolt. But once Crossrail and the OOC station are built, I wonder if a possible route to Paddington with available capacity will remain? And what of the Greenford to west Ealing section, it would become an isolated diesel branch between two Crossrail routes. Perhaps the Central Line is better left as it is. What is the demand for trains between West Ealing and Greenford anyway? Would it make a sensible Central Line branch? But, then, the Greenford branch also sees use for mainline diversions. I doubt Network Rail want tube trains in the way of those! The route from Ruislip into Paddington is due to be severed at OOC if the HS2 plans go ahead. And in truth the Central Line serves this stretch adequately. What of the Greenford branch? A possible use for tram-trains perhaps? But, where would they go from their termini? Maybe this will become another isolated section of the Overground. Assuming paths could be found, might it be viable to have a (hourly) Chiltern service from, say, Princes Risborough to Ealing Broadway via the Greenford line. One purpose would be for connections to Heathrow. Probably easier to terminate in the new bay platform at West Ealing -- I don't think it's viable to reverse at Ealing Broadway. |
Quote:
passenger - with the regulation camera - and a member of staff in civilian clothes who seemed to be the guard. He said the reason for the service was to maintain Chiltern's right of way into Paddington and seemed to think that staff training was a secondary consideration. He also confirmed there was no chance of Chiltern sending more trains to Paddington because of a lack of train paths and platforms. Does anyone know why there are such severe speed limits on this line? The parallel Central Line moves quite quickly and the track seems to be well- maintained. |
Chiltern to Paddington
On 2015\09\18 16:54, Robin9 wrote:
I travelled on this train this morning. Very interesting. There was one other passenger - with the regulation camera - and a member of staff in civilian clothes who seemed to be the guard. He said the reason for the service was to maintain Chiltern's right of way into Paddington and seemed to think that staff training was a secondary consideration. He also confirmed there was no chance of Chiltern sending more trains to Paddington because of a lack of train paths and platforms. What use is maintaining Chiltern's "right of way" if they don't have the right to more than one path a day? |
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Chiltern to Paddington
On 2015\09\19 00:22, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 21:58:06 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 2015\09\18 16:54, Robin9 wrote: I travelled on this train this morning. Very interesting. There was one other passenger - with the regulation camera - and a member of staff in civilian clothes who seemed to be the guard. He said the reason for the service was to maintain Chiltern's right of way into Paddington and seemed to think that staff training was a secondary consideration. He also confirmed there was no chance of Chiltern sending more trains to Paddington because of a lack of train paths and platforms. What use is maintaining Chiltern's "right of way" if they don't have the right to more than one path a day? It avoids the horror, for the DfT, of going through the formal closure procedure. DfT are undboubtedly happy to avoid drawing any attention to the route, its appalling condition and the poor train service. If people became aware of the route all sorts of outrageous demands, like a decent train service or, horror of horrors, linking into Crossrail might be suggested and we can't have that. You can guarantee that if anyone did anything about closing the service in the next few months that it'd become a Mayoral election issue in West London and London Travelwatch would never, ever agree to a closure of a main line link into a London terminal. That sounds far more likely than Chiltern wanting to maintain a right of way. I'm wondering... if a link from the line to the West London line was built, perhaps using an S-shaped curve from just south of Old Oak Common Depot to Hythe Road / Salter Street, would an hourly service from, say Aylesbury and Princes Risborough to Shepherds Bush and further (say, Brixton and Orpington) be popular? And would that remove the legal need for the daily Chiltern service to Paddington, and the parliamentary bus service from Ealing to Wandsworth Road? |
Chiltern to Paddington
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\09\18 16:54, Robin9 wrote: I travelled on this train this morning. Very interesting. There was one other passenger - with the regulation camera - and a member of staff in civilian clothes who seemed to be the guard. He said the reason for the service was to maintain Chiltern's right of way into Paddington and seemed to think that staff training was a secondary consideration. He also confirmed there was no chance of Chiltern sending more trains to Paddington because of a lack of train paths and platforms. What use is maintaining Chiltern's "right of way" if they don't have the right to more than one path a day? The main use is as a diversionary route at weekends if Marylebone is closed. Peter Smyth |
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Chiltern's return service from Paddington in future "will instead run non-stop to High Wycombe." |
Chiltern to Paddington
On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 9:12:21 PM UTC+1, Barry Salter wrote:
On 06/08/2015 00:44, Recliner wrote: It arrives empty, presumably from Marylebone or Wembley, at the down platform 3 at South Ruislip. I assume the Chiltern drivers all take turns on this service after bringing in a peak train to Marylebone, so they have up-to-date route knowledge. Runs empty from Wembley LMD to South Ruislip as 5V35, forms 2V35 to Paddington, 2M30 back to West Ruislip, then 5H43 back to Marylebone, though that's only part of the unit's diagram for the day. The trains in question are only worked by Aylesbury drivers, and I believe they need a Guard as well. Cheers, Barry -- Barry Salter, usenet (at) southie (dot) me (dot) uk Disclaimer: The above do not necessarily represent the views of my employer. Barry The May 2017 issue of Modern Railways (Page 58) says that Chiltern's return service from Paddington in future "will instead run non-stop to High Wycombe." I was at Paddington today and I noticed the destination was High Wycombe. I asked the staff member on guard duty if the train still stopped at West Ruislip. The reply was no, but the inbound journey from South Ruislip is unchanged. Wycombe non-stop. My Freedom Pass is not valid beyond West Ruislip!N |
Chiltern to Paddington
In message , at 12:28:14 on
Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked: I was talking in general, even when people have walked past big red buffers at a terminus, a surprising number are then confused about which way it'll depart. And surprisingly often, such as at Kings Cross platform 9 this morning, the driver apparently doesn't even realise the big red buffers mean "stop before colliding with me". -- Roland Perry |
Chiltern to Paddington
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:28:14 on Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked: I was talking in general, even when people have walked past big red buffers at a terminus, a surprising number are then confused about which way it'll depart. And surprisingly often, such as at Kings Cross platform 9 this morning, the driver apparently doesn't even realise the big red buffers mean "stop before colliding with me". That's assuming there wasn't a technical failure. |
Chiltern to Paddington
In message
-sept ember.org, at 20:33:06 on Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked: I was talking in general, even when people have walked past big red buffers at a terminus, a surprising number are then confused about which way it'll depart. And surprisingly often, such as at Kings Cross platform 9 this morning, the driver apparently doesn't even realise the big red buffers mean "stop before colliding with me". That's assuming there wasn't a technical failure. Failure of the emergency braking system would be very serious indeed. The whole fleet would surely be out of service for inspection by now? -- Roland Perry |
Chiltern to Paddington
On Wednesday, 5 August 2015 13:48:37 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
As most people here must know, Chiltern runs one service a day, M-F, to Paddington. There is a YouTube video about this, dated 7/12/2017, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KiZGRA_yCE in case anyone's interested. It came up in my recommended videos column, which is slightly worrying. |
That YouTube video was sent to me too. It's misleading in that
it does not mention the inbound journey from South Ruislip to Paddington. I also question the forthright assertion that Chiltern are required to run this service. If that is correct, why were Chiltern originally allowed to terminate at West Ruislip? |
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