To anyone with any common sense, allowing large scale immigration
necessitates a large increase in houses.

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

tim.....;150017 Wrote:
"Robin9" wrote in message
...-

e27002 aurora;149992 Wrote:-

Here we differ. The years of tepid socialism were culminating in
piles of garbage in the street, a growing rat population, and the dead
were unburied. Can you imagine how this added to the emotional load
of the families and friends of the recently decease?

Margaret Hilda Baroness Thatcher was raised up to restore our United
Kingdom. She achieved so much before the cowards in the tory party
had their palace coup.

This included trades union legislation and the defeat of Scargill and
co. Decent people were making a living again and the UK's national
esteem was being restored.-

The refuse not being collected and the dead lying unburied were not
normal, consistent features of life in the 1970s.

Thatcher did not restore the U. K. and because of her, huge numbers of
decent people were unable to make a proper living.

I was lucky. I was already a home-owner before 1979. In the 1970s,
before Thatcher, normal people on normal incomes could aspire to owning
their own home. Thatcher destroyed that dream. She created a housing
shortage and then, at the behest of her financial backers who could not
compete, she killed off building societies who dominated the mortgage
market. I feel sorry for today's young people, most of whom have given
up dreaming of their own home.-

What utter nonsense

whatever Thatcher do, or did not do wrong, creating a housing shortage
was not one of them,

That came much later (mostly on the watch of Mt T Blair)

You're obviously qualified to talk about utter nonsense.

Thatcher made it illegal for local authorities to spend the money they
received for council houses in building new homes. If you really believe
that has nothing to do with today's housing shortage, you are fantasising.

During Thatcher's period in office, house prices rose so sharply that in
the London area, it became the major subject of conversation. Prices rise
when there is a shortage.

The problem has got much worse since Thatcher's time. Arguably the
ridiculous speculator-driven housing market is a product of Gordon Brown
taxing pension funds so people can't otherwise save for their old age.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Robin9 wrote:

Depends what you mean by "outer Greater London". I live in Forest Gate in
Newham and we're E7 and part of outer London on the political definition

(strictly the boroughs that weren't in the Inner London Education
Authority's remit; this mostly matched the old London County Council Area
but part of Newham, namely North Woolwich, was a notable exception). *
Walthamstow is E17. The E post codes go right up to the Greater London
border and even beyond it in one direction, but stops rather short of it
in another.

As a long tern resident of East London I have to disagree with you.
Notwithstandish political definitions, most people regard Forest Gate -
birth place of Dame Anna Neagle and Dame Vera Lynn - as an inner London
suburb.

The difference between formal and colloquial definitions has been behind a
lot of the discussion on this thread and can make it unclear just what area
a person means.

The E post codes do not go to the Greater London border. South Woodford
is E18 but Woodford Green and Woodford Bridge have IG postcodes.

Havering is the eastern-most London borough and none of it has an E
postcode.

True in those directions but E4 goes right up to the boundary and beyond,
taking in Sewardstone, which was the direction I had in mind.



--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

You're quite right! I forgot about Chingford!

I think everyone - even diehard Labour supporters - will agree that the
situation has become even more serious since Thatcher. (For what it's worth,
I dislike Labour even more than I dislike Tories, and I think Tony Blair was an
even worse Prime Minister than Thatcher) However a balanced perspective on
the entire housing problem must be based on facts, not on tribal loyalty.

During the 1950s home ownership increased enormously and the construction
industry achieved completion figures that put today's industry to shame. In
some years they built more than 400,000 houses. Today we can't manage even 300,000.

When Labour came into office in October 1964, they set about clearing the
remaining slums and hugely increasing council housing. I've always suspected
there was a lot of corruption involved but the indisputable fact is that
Harold Wilson's otherwise hopeless Government did bring about a vast
improvement in housing, in both quality and quantity. This improvement
was mainly achieved by building on a large scale both houses to
buy and council houses.

Thatcher's decision to prevent local authorities from building new council
accomodation meant that one half of the supply of additional housing stock
came to an end. Right wing dogmatists concocted a silly theory: the private
housing market would finance the construction of new houses to rent in the
private sector, standards would rise and everything would be fine. It didn't
work out like that at all.

That neither John Major nor Tony Blair took the growing housing problem
seriously does not absolve Margaret Thatcher from her share of the blame.

On 06/09/2015 19:06, Robin9 wrote:
tim.....;150017 Wrote:
"Robin9" wrote in message
...-

e27002 aurora;149992 Wrote:-

Here we differ. The years of tepid socialism were culminating in
piles of garbage in the street, a growing rat population, and the dead
were unburied. Can you imagine how this added to the emotional load
of the families and friends of the recently decease?

Margaret Hilda Baroness Thatcher was raised up to restore our United
Kingdom. She achieved so much before the cowards in the tory party
had their palace coup.

This included trades union legislation and the defeat of Scargill and
co. Decent people were making a living again and the UK's national
esteem was being restored.-

The refuse not being collected and the dead lying unburied were not
normal,
consistent features of life in the 1970s.

Thatcher did not restore the U. K. and because of her, huge numbers of
decent people were unable to make a proper living.

I was lucky. I was already a home-owner before 1979. In the 1970s,
before
Thatcher, normal people on normal incomes could aspire to owning their
own
home. Thatcher destroyed that dream. She created a housing shortage and

then, at the behest of her financial backers who could not compete, she

killed off building societies who dominated the mortgage market. I feel
sorry
for today's young people, most of whom have given up dreaming of their
own
home.-

What utter nonsense

whatever Thatcher do, or did not do wrong, creating a housing shortage
was
not one of them,

That came much later (mostly on the watch of Mt T Blair)

tim

You're obviously qualified to talk about utter nonsense.

Thatcher made it illegal for local authorities to spend the money they
received
for council houses in building new homes. If you really believe that has
nothing
to do with today's housing shortage, you are fantasising.

During Thatcher's period in office, house prices rose so sharply that in
the London
area, it became the major subject of conversation. Prices rise when
there is a shortage.

Yes in my street in SE15 in 1979 a nice 3 bed Victorian house was £28K
or thereabouts, by the latter part of the 90's it was over £100K
now, it is around £800K, and if you have put on an attic extension
considerably more...
I suppose eventually the madness will be recognised, but I am not
optimistic.







--
Martin

replies to newsgroup only please.

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

tim.....;150017 Wrote:
"Robin9" wrote in message
...-

e27002 aurora;149992 Wrote:-

Here we differ. The years of tepid socialism were culminating in
piles of garbage in the street, a growing rat population, and the dead
were unburied. Can you imagine how this added to the emotional load
of the families and friends of the recently decease?

Margaret Hilda Baroness Thatcher was raised up to restore our United
Kingdom. She achieved so much before the cowards in the tory party
had their palace coup.

This included trades union legislation and the defeat of Scargill and
co. Decent people were making a living again and the UK's national
esteem was being restored.-

The refuse not being collected and the dead lying unburied were not
normal,
consistent features of life in the 1970s.

Thatcher did not restore the U. K. and because of her, huge numbers of
decent people were unable to make a proper living.

I was lucky. I was already a home-owner before 1979. In the 1970s,
before
Thatcher, normal people on normal incomes could aspire to owning their
own
home. Thatcher destroyed that dream. She created a housing shortage and

then, at the behest of her financial backers who could not compete, she

killed off building societies who dominated the mortgage market. I feel
sorry
for today's young people, most of whom have given up dreaming of their
own
home.-

What utter nonsense

whatever Thatcher do, or did not do wrong, creating a housing shortage
was
not one of them,

That came much later (mostly on the watch of Mt T Blair)

tim

You're obviously qualified to talk about utter nonsense.

Thatcher made it illegal for local authorities to spend the money they
received
for council houses in building new homes.

How does councils building (or not) social rental properties help people
wanting to buy their own home?

tim

In message , at 19:50:44 on Mon, 7
Sep 2015, Robin9 remarked:

In some years they built more than 400,000 houses. Today we can't
manage even 300,000.

That's because Gordon Brown caused a serious recession and people
couldn't easily pay for new houses. Whole "new towns" have been put on
hold as a result.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 19:50:44 on Mon,
7 Sep 2015, Robin9 remarked:

In some years they built more than 400,000 houses. Today we can't
manage even 300,000.

That's because Gordon Brown caused a serious recession and people
couldn't easily pay for new houses. Whole "new towns" have been put
on hold as a result.

The high figures in the 1960s are deceptive. A lot of houses were demolished
as "slums" at the same time so the net figures weren't so impressive.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

. . . and that is why I've always suspected there was corruption. The fact
that perfectly good houses were sometimes demolished to make room for
pretty much the same number of new dwellings indicates that people on high
were not primarily concerned to provide homes to the homeless, but instead
had an interest in creating building projects.