On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 18:15:10 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\09\02 16:26, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 13:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\09\02 10:44, y wrote:
On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 10:06:20 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\09\02 09:26, y wrote:
On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:23:16 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
Google Earth shows what looks like a open cutting on the DLR just east
of Woolwich Arsenal station. Is that correct? I thought the station
itself was quite deep.

Thats the national rail line.

No, north of that.

Oh that. Yeah, probably the DLR. I've only been there once but I don't
remember the station being particularly deep.

So I wonder why the DLR station isn't open to the air?

Isn't the station building above the platforms?

Dunno. Why are you replying to your own question with another question?

Because it wasn't my question. That question was my first post in this
thread. You need to learn to read.

It might be better if he just forgot how to type.

Well in that case I won't bother to answer any more of your braindead
questions. You'll notice no one else bothered.

--
Spud

On Tuesday, 1 September 2015 22:23:17 UTC+2, Basil Jet wrote:
Google Earth shows what looks like a open cutting on the DLR just east
of Woolwich Arsenal station. Is that correct? I thought the station
itself was quite deep.

The station isn't particularly deep, it's only a short escalator down from SE platform level to DLR platform level. There definitely is a stretch of track that is open to the air between Woolwich Arsenal DLR and the tunnel under the river (I use the connection to get between N Kent and LCY moderately frequently).

Robin

On Wednesday, 2 September 2015 19:15:12 UTC+2, Basil Jet wrote:

The reason I'm asking is because I have always thought the DLR branch to
Woolwich was a bit crap, but I didn't know why. I've figured it out.

Whenever I've used the branch it's been well used, so that suggests there is demand for it. Woolwich Arsenal has useful connections both by rail out towards Erith and by bus in a number of directions.

Well, the Woolwich DLR service ends just south of the river, connecting
with a line that runs along the south bank. On the north side the
service runs along the river bank in one direction and gives you nothing
northward or eastward.

Canning Town to Stratford DLR (taken over from NLL) provides useful connections northwards, and Stratford has tons of connections to all kinds of places.

The city destination is not mush use unless you want Tower Gateway,
because the trains to Cannon Street are as quick. Woolwich to Stratford
is admittedly useful, but it wouldn't take *that* much longer via Greenwich.

There is rather a lot of development in the Isle of Dogs part of the Docklands which the DLR is integral to. For people going there from anywhere between Woolwich and Datrford, the DLR from WA is a useful route.

So they spent a lot of money on one of the few river crossings in East
London, but made it available to very few journeys. The tunnel is great
if you want to get from Erith to City Airport, but that's about it. All
sorts of journeys like Kidbrooke to Becontree, where a crow's flight
route passes over the tunnel, have to take wildly circuitous routes
using a different river crossing, such as Cannon Street Bridge.

Certainly circumferential routes in East London across the river are poorly served, but is there really much demand for Kidbrooke to Becontree?

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Kidb...3e3?force=lite

Chosing the "Leave Now" option on google maps, (mid morning on Friday), it suggests 132 bus to North Greenwich, Jubilee line to West Ham, total journey time 52 mintues. TfL journey planner suggests train to New Cross, ELL to Whitechapel and District from there, in 55 minutes.

So I think they should run a tram...
Harold Hill
Collier Row (which I think has been the most populous area in London
with no railway since New Addington got its tram in 1999)
Newbury Park Stn

[snip]

Bromley South

It would use the DLR Beckton depot, if there's room, but the vehicles
would have both pantographs and DLR shoes.

That's a very long way for a tram, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to interface with the various railway and DLR platforms/power supplies/signalling systems along the route. There is the longstanding on again off again DLR extension along Barking Reach, which if done sensibly could link Woolwich to the end of the Beckton branch and east form there. I wonder just how much demand there is for north-south traffic that far out, though.

A southwards extension from Woolwich does have merit, though, at least to give proper connections with the Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines if nothing more.

I do wonder, though, how the traffic at Woolwich Arsenal will respond once crossrail to Abbey Wood opens. It will definitely provide a much better service between the south side of the river and the Isle of Dogs, so it may take a lot of the current DLR traffic away.

Robin

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 02:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:
Canning Town to Stratford DLR (taken over from NLL) provides useful connect=
ions northwards, and Stratford has tons of connections to all kinds of plac=
es.

Personally I think that link would have been far more useful as part of the
upgraded Overground NLL. I don't really understand the reasoning behind making
it part of the DLR. Instead of some nice 378s you have to ride on rattly
uncomfortable DLR trains and change at stratford if you wish to continue
further around the NLL.

Bromley South
=20
It would use the DLR Beckton depot, if there's room, but the vehicles=20
would have both pantographs and DLR shoes.

That's a very long way for a tram, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to=
interface with the various railway and DLR platforms/power supplies/signal=

Poor old Basil Brush seem to have forgotten its DC 3rd rail south of the river.
Good luck getting 2 types of shoe to work reliably on one train. Aside from
that the DLR trains almost certainly wouldn't get a mainline safety
certificate for crash worthiness.

--
Spud

On Friday, 4 September 2015 10:08:28 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 September 2015 19:15:12 UTC+2, Basil Jet wrote:

The reason I'm asking is because I have always thought the DLR branch to
Woolwich was a bit crap, but I didn't know why. I've figured it out.

Whenever I've used the branch it's been well used, so that suggests there is demand for it. Woolwich Arsenal has useful connections

People goin ta footbawl innit?

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:07:14 +0000 (UTC), y wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 02:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:
Canning Town to Stratford DLR (taken over from NLL) provides useful connect=
ions northwards, and Stratford has tons of connections to all kinds of plac=
es.

Personally I think that link would have been far more useful as part of the
upgraded Overground NLL. I don't really understand the reasoning behind making
it part of the DLR. Instead of some nice 378s you have to ride on rattly
uncomfortable DLR trains and change at stratford if you wish to continue
further around the NLL.

IMHO It would have made more sense to have continued the NLL from
Canning Town under the Thames and on to North Greenwich and Maze Hill.

The Jubilee would have been better continuing from North Greenwich to
North Woolwich and Thamesmead. But, TfL are awful fond of their DLR
toy train system.

On 04/09/2015 15:32, e27002 aurora wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:07:14 +0000 (UTC), y wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 02:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:
Canning Town to Stratford DLR (taken over from NLL) provides useful
connections northwards, and Stratford has tons of connections to
all kinds of places.

Personally I think that link would have been far more useful as part of
the upgraded Overground NLL. I don't really understand the reasoning
behind making it part of the DLR. Instead of some nice 378s you have
to ride on rattly uncomfortable DLR trains and change at stratford if
you wish to continue further around the NLL.

IMHO It would have made more sense to have continued the NLL from
Canning Town under the Thames and on to North Greenwich and Maze Hill.

The Jubilee would have been better continuing from North Greenwich to
North Woolwich and Thamesmead. But, TfL are awful fond of their DLR
toy train system.


TfL as such didn't exist when the Jubilee Line Extension was planned and
built. A route to Thamesmead was one of the JLE options, but choices
were made a long time ago on this.

The "toy train" is very popular, including the new route taken over from
the NLL via Star Lane. Lots of local passengers taking journeys off the
roads.

On 2015\09\04 12:07, y wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 02:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:
Canning Town to Stratford DLR (taken over from NLL) provides useful connect=
ions northwards, and Stratford has tons of connections to all kinds of plac=
es.

Personally I think that link would have been far more useful as part of the
upgraded Overground NLL. I don't really understand the reasoning behind making
it part of the DLR. Instead of some nice 378s you have to ride on rattly
uncomfortable DLR trains and change at stratford if you wish to continue
further around the NLL.

I agree.

It would use the DLR Beckton depot, if there's room, but the vehicles=20
would have both pantographs and DLR shoes.

That's a very long way for a tram, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to=
interface with the various railway and DLR platforms/power supplies/signal=

Poor old Basil Brush seem to have forgotten its DC 3rd rail south of the river.
Good luck getting 2 types of shoe to work reliably on one train. Aside from
that the DLR trains almost certainly wouldn't get a mainline safety
certificate for crash worthiness.

The present DLR stock wouldn't go anywhere it doesn't currently go. And
the proposed low floor trams from Harold Hill to Bromley South, with DLR
ATO and DLR shoes as well as human driver plus tram pantograph, would
not share track with anything but the DLR, and would not share platforms
with anything at all.

Having said that, having no pantograph and using battery power from
Harold Hill to Collier Row, from Newbury Park to King George V, from
Woolwich to Grove Park and from Bromley North to Bromley South would be
better than ruining street scenes with overhead. But that would put four
times as much power through the shoes when they were being used, and I
have no idea if that would even be possible. But DLR third rail with low
platforms is probably too dangerous, which would be an issue at
Sundridge Park. Although the DLR criss-crossing wire in the four foot
might be a trip hazard next to low platforms, so maybe high platforms
like those on Metrolink would be a necessity.

As for the distance, Bury to Altrincham seems to be about 18 miles, and
Harold Hill to Bromley North is about 22 miles. Although end-to end
distance is unimportant, because it is not designed to enable the entire
population of Harold Hill to commute to Bromley. The longest part anyone
might regularly use is Newbury Park to Bromley which is about 16 miles,
so 50% longer than Fleetwood to Blackpool.

On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 15:32:44 +0100
e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:07:14 +0000 (UTC), y wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 02:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:
Canning Town to Stratford DLR (taken over from NLL) provides useful connect=
ions northwards, and Stratford has tons of connections to all kinds of plac=
es.

Personally I think that link would have been far more useful as part of the
upgraded Overground NLL. I don't really understand the reasoning behind making
it part of the DLR. Instead of some nice 378s you have to ride on rattly
uncomfortable DLR trains and change at stratford if you wish to continue
further around the NLL.

IMHO It would have made more sense to have continued the NLL from
Canning Town under the Thames and on to North Greenwich and Maze Hill.

Useful but very expensive.

The Jubilee would have been better continuing from North Greenwich to
North Woolwich and Thamesmead. But, TfL are awful fond of their DLR

I always had the feeling that Stratford was chosen as a terminus because the
budget didn't stretch to going anywhere else. Definately Woolwich would have
been an obvious choice. A huge population centre. Still, the DLR is better
than nothing I suppose even if you could probably walk to the centre of
London faster. I can't imagine many of the residents take the DLR instead
of the mainline train when they're going into town.

toy train system.

They keep trying to upgrade it to a proper train but its a bit like a souped
up hatchback. It doesn't matter what noise it makes or how many go faster
stripe it has, it'll never be a ferrari.

--
Spud

On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:24:47 +0100
Mizter T wrote:
TfL as such didn't exist when the Jubilee Line Extension was planned and

TfL is just a pointless rebranding of London Transport which not only had
history behind it but had a far less clunky name.

--
Spud