David Splett wrote:

"Roger the cabin boy" writes...
Nope it has changed "recently"
Presumably when they increased the frequency of the Fast Amersham service?

How recent is "recent"?

The pictures I've seen is from 27-05-2002 p36 in London Underground Rolling
Stock 15ed. (402) and a no-date picture at p41 in the same book (401)

--
Lars Elmvang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Min mailadresse finder du ved kun at skrive det overeksponerede domænenavn én
gang

err, 2 days ago

Roger the cabin boy wrote:

err, 2 days ago

Was the timetable change 2 days ago?

--
Lars Elmvang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Min mailadresse finder du ved kun at skrive det overeksponerede
domænenavn én gang

) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

I'll have to look at the program machine roll and check what is used - I
think it just uses plain binary.

Given that the first digit seems to indicate the line, and from Thomas
Crame's post stating it's octal hence no 8 or 9, it would seem that 3-bit
BCD would make sense.

I can't help with the others; I've never seen the bakerloo run an
emergency timetable and don't remember the central's series.

The Bakerloo emergency service is usually split in 2 Elephant - Queens Park
with trains numbered 001-017 never seen more than 17 trains in that section
and Harrow - Queens Park (reversing out of service via Kilburn High Road)
the trains used on this bit, never more than 3, keep their original numbers.
Normal Bakerloo numbers are generally allocated to depot starters in time
order, or so it says in my timetable
201-214 Stonebridge Park
221-223 Queens Park North Sheds
224-227 Queens Park South Sheds
231-242 London Road
245-247 Elephant
With 251, 252, 253 as Stonebridge Park to Elephant changeover trains running
down out of service each night.

Colin

In article , Peter Smyth
writes
Is there a reason why the don't use numbers ending in 8 or 9?

As other posts have said, the programme machines work in binary, shown
as octal in the train numbers.

To represent a digit from 0 to 7 requires three sets of circuits.
To represent a digit from 0 to 9 requires four sets of circuits.
So the fourth circuit gives only a 20% growth in numbers for a 33%
growth in complexity.

More precisely:
Octal:
6 circuits give 64 train numbers
7 circuits give 128 train numbers
8 circuits give 256 train numbers
Decimal:
6 circuits give 40 train numbers
7 circuits give 80 train numbers
8 circuits give 100 train numbers
9 circuits give 200 train numbers

If you were designing and costing it, which would you choose?

[Note that there's no need to do arithmetic in the system, so there's no
issue with remembering that the number after 77 is 100, for example.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

writes:

(Adrian) wrote:
In normal Binary, 16 is 10000, but in BCD each decimal digit is coded
separately in four-bit Binary, so 16 would be 0001 0110 - which is why
it's called Binary Coded Decimal.

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot about that. I'll have to look at the
programme machine roll and check what is used - I think it just uses
plain binary.

I have the answer, Roger: it is Binary-Coded Decimal.

A few years ago I went on an arranged visit to Cobourg Street Control
Centre and East Finchley Signal Cabin [1] and, being a keen sort of chap,
was invited to write an essay on the visit for the members' quarterly
journal CHTbulletin.

[1] - A group tour run by Cravens Heritage Trains for some of its
members.

I have pasted into this article the relevant section of that essay [with
some minor clarifications -- Ed]. With reference to the question under
discussion, the answer is in the 5th line from the bottom:

---------- begin quote ------------------------

A word about programme machines. Each of these consists of a roll of
"Melinex" plastic with holes punched in it; as the day progresses, the
roll is spooled from one drum to the other past the reader. Saturday and
Sunday information is located beyond the end of the weekday information
on the roll, so rewinding is done at 0200 _only_ on Sunday to Thursday
nights. Each row of holes relates to a given movement for one train (the
machine we were shown was for departures from Edgware).

Around thirty "tracks" are arranged across the width of the roll, each of
which may or may not have a hole punched in it on any given row; the
presence of a hole in any given track is detected electrically by one of
a row of contacts in the reader, and the Working Timetable information
thus encoded is transferred to the signalling system.

The first holes or tracks impart timing information in binary format
(with the most significant "hours" digit being 8, the machines working in
a sort of crude double-twelve-hour format), down to half-minutes at track
eleven. At the other edge of the roll is Train Number information, whose
available digits are 100, 100, 40, 20, 10, 4, 2 and 1: this explains the
lack of 8s and 9s in Northern Line train numbers! In the central part of
the roll is a destination code, and the all-important signalling tracks
(e.g., if a hole is punched in track 12 then the signal for "plat 3 to
SB" will clear).

---------- end quote -------------------------

We see that Train Numbers are encoded using bits 200, 100; 40, 20, 10;
and 4, 2, 1.

This allows Train Numbers to be encoded that lie within the range 000 to
377, so long as the digit in the units and tens column is neither an 8
nor a 9. There appears to be no way for the Programme Machine to store
and transmit a Train Number in the 4xx or 7xx series; I'm pretty sure I
asked about this at the time, and was told that as these are special
workings they would be entered manually from Cobourg Street anyway. (I
have a trio of rings of Train Numbers off a scrap 1959ts train, which are
still set to "736" which was Golders Green to Ruislip depots.)

With "." being plain Melinex and "O" being a hole in it, we can translate
the following examples thus:

.. . . . . . . . == 0 0 0
O O O O O O O O == 3 7 7
.. O . O O O . . == 1 3 4
O . O . . . O O == 2 4 3

(Only the Train Number section of the roll is shown here, with four rows
shown; the roll would scroll upwards or downwards relative to this
article. ISTR the Train Number holes are actually laid out with the
*least*-significant digit at the left.)

The only thing that I may have mis-interpreted is whether a *hole* or a
"non-hole" represents a binary "1"; seeing as I had to inspect my
photograph (currently buried somewhere in clutter-heap!) of the
programme-machine very carefully in order to determine what each track
was for, when writing the essay, I hope that it is unlikely.

HTH,

--
Richard Griffin
http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/
"It seems that, nowadays, there is no NOUN that cannot be VERBED!"
-- Professor Griffin, University of Cambridge

I will try to sum up what we got so far then.......
Gentlemen, still holes to fill out ;-)

Bakerloo:
201-213/214 Stonebridge Park depot starters
221-223 Queen's Park North shed starters
224-227 Queen's Park South shed starters
231-242 London Road depot starters
245-247 Elephant sidings starters
251-254 London Road-Elephant changeovers
or 251-253 Stonebridge Park-Elephant & Castle changeovers

Central: (WTT60 - when is this timetable from?)
1-23 Epping-West Ruislip
31-41 Woodford-Ealing via Hainault
50-57 Hainault-Ealing Broadway
61-67 (Mon-Sat) Loughton-North Acton
61-65 (Sun) White City-Leytonstone
71-76 (Mon-Sat) Newbury Park-White City
101-111 Ruislip depot midday stablers
121-122 White City depot midday stablers
141-154 Hainault depot midday stablers
480 Hainault depot midday route learning/rusty rails train

Circle:
201-207 Circle Outer rail
211-217 Circle Inner rail

District:
0xx (D-stock)
Wimbledon - Edgware Road: 061-07x (maybe 076) (However 10 trains are required for the
service, 9 in the mornings and 10 in the afternoon, and one midday stabler (at
Hammersmith H&C))
High Street Kensington - Kensington (Olympia): 151-152 (and of course also when they
run to and from Ealing Common Depot)

East London:
171-176???

Hammersmith & City:
221-24x

Jubilee: (WTT6 - when is this timetable from?)
Monday-Friday:
301-343 Stanmore/Wembley/Willesden Grn-Stratford
350-354 Neasden midday stablers
360-366 Stratford midday stablers
370 Peak spare
Saturday/Sunday:
301-334 Stanmore-Stratford
340-353 Wembley Park/Willesden Grn-Stratford

Metropolitan: (No timetable given, but apparantly obsoleted.....)
401-404 Amersham-Baker St
407 Chesham shuttle
420-435 Uxbridge-Aldgate
440-451 Watford-Baker Street
460-476 Neasden midday stablers
470-473 Neasden-Rickmansworth transfer
710 Rail Adhesion Train
711-712 Rickmansworth/Amersham test train
713 Uxbridge test train
714-717 Turning trips

Northern: (WTT48 - when is this timetable from?)
1-11 Edgware starters
21-33 Golders starters
40-47 Barnet starters
51-64 Highgate starters
71-131 Morden starters
141-155 Morden midday stablers
161-173 Golders midday stablers
174 Golders evening peak starter
730 Golders-Highgate transfer
731-2 Golders-Golders turning trip
733 Golders-Morden transfer
734 Morden-Golders transfer

Piccadilly: 3xx
In 1999 as follows:
250 - 257, 260 Cockfosters to Rayners Lane
261 - 267, 270 - 272 Cockfosters to Uxbridge
273 Spare at Acton Town (midday)
274 - 277 Northfields Midday Stablers
300 - 307, 310 - 317, 320 - 327, 330 - 337, 340 - 343 Cockfosters to
Heathrow
347 Acton Town Overnight stabler
351 - 357, 360 - 366 Arnos Grove to Northfields
371 - 373 Cockfosters Midday Stablers

Victoria: 2xx

Waterloo & City:
201-204

Specials and engineering trains: 7xx

--
Lars Elmvang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My mailadress is found by only writing the over-exposed domain-name once

Richard Griffin wrote in message ...
writes:

(Adrian) wrote:
In normal Binary, 16 is 10000, but in BCD each decimal digit is coded
separately in four-bit Binary, so 16 would be 0001 0110 - which is why
it's called Binary Coded Decimal.

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot about that. I'll have to look at the
programme machine roll and check what is used - I think it just uses
plain binary.

I have the answer, Roger: it is Binary-Coded Decimal.

A few years ago I went on an arranged visit to Cobourg Street Control
Centre and East Finchley Signal Cabin [1] and, being a keen sort of chap,
was invited to write an essay on the visit for the members' quarterly
journal CHTbulletin.

[1] - A group tour run by Cravens Heritage Trains for some of its
members.

I have pasted into this article the relevant section of that essay [with
some minor clarifications -- Ed]. With reference to the question under
discussion, the answer is in the 5th line from the bottom:

---------- begin quote ------------------------

A word about programme machines. Each of these consists of a roll of
"Melinex" plastic with holes punched in it; as the day progresses, the
roll is spooled from one drum to the other past the reader. Saturday and
Sunday information is located beyond the end of the weekday information
on the roll, so rewinding is done at 0200 _only_ on Sunday to Thursday
nights. Each row of holes relates to a given movement for one train (the
machine we were shown was for departures from Edgware).

So how come I've got an LUL engineering standard, last revised in
2000, saying the codes are in octal numbering?

Rewind time (or end of traffic day) on all LT centralised control
systems is 0300, having spent many nights half - asleep waiting for
the appointed hour.

The programme machine is not fail-safe, and will not cause routes to
clear. What it will do is call routes, the decision as to if they will
clear or not is up to the safety signalling.

The other thing I was wondering is how does a programme machine at
Finchley Central call routes for trains departing from Edgware?

In article ,
(Thomas Crame) wrote:

Richard Griffin wrote in message
...
writes:

(Adrian) wrote:
In normal Binary, 16 is 10000, but in BCD each decimal digit is
coded
separately in four-bit Binary, so 16 would be 0001 0110 - which is
why
it's called Binary Coded Decimal.

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot about that. I'll have to look at the
programme machine roll and check what is used - I think it just uses
plain binary.

I have the answer, Roger: it is Binary-Coded Decimal.

A few years ago I went on an arranged visit to Cobourg Street Control
Centre and East Finchley Signal Cabin [1] and, being a keen sort of
chap,
was invited to write an essay on the visit for the members' quarterly
journal CHTbulletin.

[1] - A group tour run by Cravens Heritage Trains for some of its
members.

I have pasted into this article the relevant section of that essay
[with
some minor clarifications -- Ed]. With reference to the question
under
discussion, the answer is in the 5th line from the bottom:

---------- begin quote ------------------------

A word about programme machines. Each of these consists of a roll of
"Melinex" plastic with holes punched in it; as the day progresses, the
roll is spooled from one drum to the other past the reader. Saturday
and
Sunday information is located beyond the end of the weekday
information
on the roll, so rewinding is done at 0200 _only_ on Sunday to Thursday
nights. Each row of holes relates to a given movement for one train
(the
machine we were shown was for departures from Edgware).

So how come I've got an LUL engineering standard, last revised in
2000, saying the codes are in octal numbering?

Rewind time (or end of traffic day) on all LT centralised control
systems is 0300, having spent many nights half - asleep waiting for
the appointed hour.


The programme machine is not fail-safe, and will not cause routes to
clear. What it will do is call routes, the decision as to if they will
clear or not is up to the safety signalling.

The other thing I was wondering is how does a programme machine at
Finchley Central call routes for trains departing from Edgware?

It doesn't - the programme machine roll and casing in question was at
Cobourg Street - used for demonstration purposes. This was shown prior to
the east Finchley visit.


Roger