Uber app is not a taximeter
 

According to various reports on the High Court ruling this morning
including:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34549700

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In message , at 11:05:13 on Fri, 16 Oct
2015, Someone Somewhere remarked:

According to various reports on the High Court ruling this morning
including:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34549700

"The court had been asked to decide whether the company's smartphones
were considered meters, which are outlawed for private hire vehicles."

Do they mean "in London"?

Private hire vehicles in Cambridge have meters, as do the ones in Notts.
--
Roland Perry

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 16/10/2015 11:11, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:05:13 on Fri, 16 Oct
2015, Someone Somewhere remarked:

According to various reports on the High Court ruling this morning
including:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34549700

"The court had been asked to decide whether the company's smartphones
were considered meters, which are outlawed for private hire vehicles."

Do they mean "in London"?

Private hire vehicles in Cambridge have meters, as do the ones in Notts.

Are you in some way incentivised to ensure that Cambridge and/or Notts
are mentioned as soon as possible in any thread?

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In message , at 11:36:39 on Fri, 16 Oct
2015, Someone Somewhere remarked:
According to various reports on the High Court ruling this morning
including:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34549700

"The court had been asked to decide whether the company's smartphones
were considered meters, which are outlawed for private hire vehicles."

Do they mean "in London"?

Private hire vehicles in Cambridge have meters, as do the ones in Notts.

Are you in some way incentivised to ensure that Cambridge and/or Notts
are mentioned as soon as possible in any thread?

No, but I make it a general rule to only post about things which I have
direct personal experience of, and therefore for some subjects a
built-in bias towards places I live, or have recently lived, tends to
arise.
--
Roland Perry

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In message , at 11:41:37 on
Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too (as
well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have meters
or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs] Hackneys.
--
Roland Perry

The court case was instigated by TfL who, very wisely,
wanted legal backing for their opinion that the app used by
Uber drivers and customers was not a taxi meter, as so
idiotically claimed by various Hackney Cab drivers. It had
therefore a London only relevance, although the ramifications
may spread much more widely.

I caught part of a discussion on Venessa Feltz's radio show
on this subject. (Venessa is so vastly better than James O'Brien
at hosting a phone-in programme) There were a few callers
propagating FUD - Uber drivers are not insured, not CRB checked
etc - but most callers were pretty sensible. One Hackney Cab driver
said he would be looking for a new job after Christmas; another
pointed out that the huge increase in Private Hire drivers had
implications for London's air quality; a third, a mere 45 years as
a taxi driver, said the underlying problem was that TfL were
primarily civil servants who did not understand London's taxi and
private hire markets. A fourth suggested that minicab firms too
will soon go under (my own belief) and that Uber will then raise
their charges enormously.

One woman said that she had been pleased with Uber at first
but that the quality of the drivers had recently deteriorated
and many now had no idea how to drive around London. She
had been caught by "surge pricing" and was not happy: £30.00
from Chelsea to St. James. (I wouldn't be happy either!)

One thought which has not been aired anywhere to my knowledge
should not be totally ignored: Google is a major invester in Uber.
Google has invented software which can make a vehicle move
without a driver. Who would buy such a vehicle? Not I. I enjoy
driving and have zero interest in owning a driverless car. So, to
whom do Google expect to sell this driverless vehicle? How about
Uber? No need to pay the drivers anything! All revenue retained by
Uber! How very attractive! Google aren't fools. They had a good
reason for investing in Uber.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:05:13 on Fri, 16 Oct
2015, Someone Somewhere remarked:

According to various reports on the High Court ruling this morning
including:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34549700

"The court had been asked to decide whether the company's smartphones were
considered meters, which are outlawed for private hire vehicles."

Do they mean "in London"?

Yep

Seems to the a required differentiator between a hackney cab and a minicab
in the metropolis.

And I have to say that I have gone off Uber now that I understand this part
of their model.

I thought their MO was that they charged you a known-up-front-fare, just
like minicabs.

This determination of the fare based upon the real time analysis of the
actual journey, leads to all sorts of opportunities for dispute.

(and FWIW I do think that this ruling is a very narrow, right on the law,
but wrong in principle, due to the legislation not being technology
agnostic - which of course, most legislation from 30 years ago wasn't. The
intention of the law was surely meant to define a taxi meter as "something
that provided real time capture of the time travelled/distance travelled"
not "a box in the car". Presumably the written legislation says "box in a
car", because 30 years ago no-one could possibly foresee any alternative
method)

tim

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 16/10/2015 20:02, tim..... wrote:


And I have to say that I have gone off Uber now that I understand this
part of their model.

I thought their MO was that they charged you a known-up-front-fare, just
like minicabs.

This determination of the fare based upon the real time analysis of the
actual journey, leads to all sorts of opportunities for dispute.


Why? You know when you got in, and when you got out and they helpfully
e-mail you a map of the journey taken. If there are glaring problems
with it, you can e-mail them (Uber in general, not the driver) and they
will assess the situation and if necessary refund you some or all of your
fare. The times allow you to work out the time portion of the fare, and
the map can give you a good guess at the distance.

The biggest problem I've found is that drivers can far to easily press
the button saying the journey is completed and then there's a palavar to
get it re-started as everything is controlled through the back end.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2015 20:02, tim..... wrote:


And I have to say that I have gone off Uber now that I understand this
part of their model.

I thought their MO was that they charged you a known-up-front-fare, just
like minicabs.

This determination of the fare based upon the real time analysis of the
actual journey, leads to all sorts of opportunities for dispute.


Why?

cos - as the rest of your post explains for me

it's all a bit of a faff!

You know when you got in, and when you got out and they helpfully
e-mail you a map of the journey taken. If there are glaring problems
with it, you can e-mail them (Uber in general, not the driver) and they
will assess the situation and if necessary refund you some or all of your
fare. The times allow you to work out the time portion of the fare, and
the map can give you a good guess at the distance.

The biggest problem I've found is that drivers can far to easily press the
button saying the journey is completed and then there's a palavar to get
it re-started as everything is controlled through the back end.

tim

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

Robin9 wrote:


One thought which has not been aired anywhere to my knowledge
should not be totally ignored: Google is a major invester in Uber.
Google has invented software which can make a vehicle move
without a driver. Who would buy such a vehicle? Not I. I enjoy
driving and have zero interest in owning a driverless car. So, to
whom do Google expect to sell this driverless vehicle? How about
Uber? No need to pay the drivers anything! All revenue retained by
Uber! How very attractive! Google aren't fools. They had a good
reason for investing in Uber.

I think using Google cars as self-driving minicabs was always a stated aim.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news report
today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the inexplicable (to me)
Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What possible justification can
there be for this?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 16/10/2015 21:49, tim..... wrote:

"Someone Somewhere" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2015 20:02, tim..... wrote:


And I have to say that I have gone off Uber now that I understand this
part of their model.

I thought their MO was that they charged you a known-up-front-fare, just
like minicabs.

This determination of the fare based upon the real time analysis of the
actual journey, leads to all sorts of opportunities for dispute.


Why?

cos - as the rest of your post explains for me

it's all a bit of a faff!

I've made one complaint in about 30 journeys and that was resolved
within an hour with a credit being applied to my card. The fact is, if
you're happy with the journey you see a price, you rate the driver (1
click) and it's done. If you're not happy, you look at the map and see
if you think (s)he could have done better.

The point about my latter statement was that Uber actually make pains to
ensure things are kept out of the drivers hands - they can't arbitarily
start/stop a journey and so on without specific consent from the
requesting users app.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news report
today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the inexplicable (to me)
Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What possible justification can
there be for this?

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of course.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What
possible justification can there be for this?

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of course.

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire cars.
The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like Addison Lee
cars in London are.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Addison Lee vehicles are cleared marked on the back with the
company logo. However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

That's not my understanding. When Uber first mooted trading
in London, they made overtures to the Hackney Cab trade and
made disparaging comments about minicabs. With characteristic
arrogance and lack of foresight, the black cabs spurned Uber who
then swallowed their words and took on minicab drivers.

I'm not aware that Uber have ever hinted, let alone stated publicly,
that the long term objective is to use driverless vehicles. If that
possibility were out in the public domain, I'm sure it would be a
major element in public discussion of Uber.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 17/10/2015 01:37, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What
possible justification can there be for this?

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of course.

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire cars.
The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like Addison Lee
cars in London are.

As you very well know, Addison Lee cars are far from unmarked.

Your giving them as an example is therefore mystifying.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 17/10/2015 10:02, Robin9 wrote:

;151173 Wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:
-
On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:-
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
-
In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.-

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed
hackney carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What

possible justification can there be for this?-

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.-

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire
cars.
The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like Addison
Lee cars in London are.

Addison Lee vehicles are cleared marked on the back with the
company logo. However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

Not everyone using transport in London comes from London.

Not everyone using transport in London comes from a town or city where
the proper purpose-built taxi can be found and purpose-built taxis are
just about unknown outside the UK. Most places are served by saloon cars
fitted with a taximeter and a sign on the roof in order to distinguish
them from any other car on the road.

For many (even if not most) people, it is relatively easy to be deceived
into believing that a London pirate car is somehow a "taxi".

There are even some people who will deny that obvious truth.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

Addison Lee vehicles are cleared marked on the back with the
company logo. However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to

In Cambridge, and in many other places outside London, hire cars have to be
clearly marked along the lines "Hire Car - Pre-booked only".

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 17/10/2015 01:37, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What
possible justification can there be for this?

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire
cars. The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like
Addison Lee cars in London are.

As you very well know, Addison Lee cars are far from unmarked.

Your giving them as an example is therefore mystifying.

They do not say anything like "Hire Car - Pre-booked only", do they?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 17/10/2015 18:38, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 17/10/2015 01:37, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What
possible justification can there be for this?

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire
cars. The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like
Addison Lee cars in London are.

As you very well know, Addison Lee cars are far from unmarked.
Your giving them as an example is therefore mystifying.

They do not say anything like "Hire Car - Pre-booked only", do they?

And it would make no difference if they did bear such a sign, except to
perhaps make matters worse by emphasising the fact that vehicle may be
hired.

They look like this:

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1100-0/photos/1335217962-cyclists-hold-diein-outside-addison-lee-office--london_1172180.jpg

It may be the case that a small minority of people travelling in
London are unfamiliar with the iconic London Taxi and also don't
know that licensed minicabs have a yellow sticker on both front
and rear windscreens. However such people are extremely unlikely
to be sufficiently knowledgeable and sufficiently eagle-eyed to
notice the meter and make a decision accordingly.

I don't know why Tony Blair's government decreed that minicabs
in London were not allowed to have a meter in the car - probably
the usual blend of ignorance, incomprehension and prejudice - but
I can't believe it was to help people differentiate between taxis and
minicabs. Not even the Blair government was as dozy as that!

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 2015\10\17 10:02, Robin9 wrote:

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In message , at 13:17:13 on Sun, 18 Oct
2015, Basil Jet remarked:

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

Something your Ely correspondent can comment on :) There are several
Vitos registered as Hackneys, and all sorts of regular saloon cars.
Indeed, I've yet to see an East Cambs Hackney that *didn't* look like a
private hire car from a distance, to "London eyes".
--
Roland Perry

You have a good point. There is of course a slight difference:
the taxi will have a small square white plate at the bottom of
the back doors while the minicab will have yellow stickers on the
windscreens.

I've been told by a taxi driver that the famous taxi vehicle is
unpleasant and liable to catch fire, and that consequently many
taxi drivers are eager to have a different vehicle. That they have
chosen the same vehicle many minicab drivers use is something
that never seems to arouse comment.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 13:17:13 on Sun, 18 Oct
2015, Basil Jet remarked:

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

Something your Ely correspondent can comment on :) There are several
Vitos registered as Hackneys, and all sorts of regular saloon cars.
Indeed, I've yet to see an East Cambs Hackney that *didn't* look like
a private hire car from a distance, to "London eyes".

Whereas in Cambridge a significant proportion of those hackneys that have to
be accessible are London-type vehicles. The original licences retain a right
to have saloons though, in recognition that vans and London-type cabs are
not accessible to everyone.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

;151187']On 17/10/2015 10:02, Robin9 wrote:-

;151173 Wrote:-
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:
-
On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:-
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
-
In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.-

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed
hackney carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars.
What

possible justification can there be for this?-

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.-

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire
cars. The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like
Addison Lee cars in London are.-

Addison Lee vehicles are cleared marked on the back with the
company logo. However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.-

Not everyone using transport in London comes from London.

Not everyone using transport in London comes from a town or city
where the proper purpose-built taxi can be found and purpose-built
taxis are
fitted with a taximeter and a sign on the roof in order to
distinguish them from any other car on the road.


into believing that a London pirate car is somehow a "taxi".

There are even some people who will deny that obvious truth.

It may be the case that a small minority of people travelling in
London are unfamiliar with the iconic London Taxi and also don't
know that licensed minicabs have a yellow sticker on both front
and rear windscreens. However such people are extremely unlikely
to be sufficiently knowledgeable and sufficiently eagle-eyed to
notice the meter and make a decision accordingly.

I don't know why Tony Blair's government decreed that minicabs
in London were not allowed to have a meter in the car - probably
the usual blend of ignorance, incomprehension and prejudice - but
I can't believe it was to help people differentiate between taxis and

Was that decided in legislation or by the Mayor? In the rest of the country
which has had hire car legislation since 1976 it's up to the licensing
authority which is the local council in all cases, even where there is an
executive Mayor.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 18/10/2015 20:33, Robin9 wrote:
'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;151204']On 2015\10\17 10:02, Robin9 wrote:-

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.-

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

You have a good point. There is of course a slight difference:
the taxi will have a small square white plate at the bottom of
the back doors while the minicab will have yellow stickers on the
windscreens.

I've been told by a taxi driver that the famous taxi vehicle is
unpleasant and liable to catch fire, and that consequently many
taxi drivers are eager to have a different vehicle. That they have
chosen the same vehicle many minicab drivers use is something
that never seems to arouse comment.

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public Carriage
office may be licensed as taxis in London.

That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be "chosen"
by London taxi-proprietors.

Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO relaxed
the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between kerbs) in order
to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed. They would not have
passed that test.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public
Carriage office may be licensed as taxis in London.

That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be
"chosen" by London taxi-proprietors.

Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO
relaxed the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between
kerbs) in order to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed.
They would not have passed that test.

I thought the Vito had to be a specially modified model with rear wheel
steering in order to pass the test? Or have they since got rid of the
requirement?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

On 19/10/2015 10:26, wrote:

(JNugent) wrote:

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public
Carriage office may be licensed as taxis in London.
That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be
"chosen" by London taxi-proprietors.
Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO
relaxed the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between
kerbs) in order to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed.
They would not have passed that test.

I thought the Vito had to be a specially modified model with rear wheel
steering in order to pass the test? Or have they since got rid of the
requirement?

There is a London cab driver (with a LTI TX model) living a few doors
away from me. I rely upon him for the information that the 24' (some say
25') turning circle requirement has been relaxed (to 28').

That is confirmed (to the extent that anything ever is) at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditions_of_Fitness

I've read on several occasions that the Act of Parliament has a
specific clause or sub-clause expressly stating that meters are
not allowed in London private hire vehicles.

I've never read through the Act line by line so I can be only
99% certain.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 19/10/2015 10:26, wrote:

(JNugent) wrote:

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public
Carriage office may be licensed as taxis in London.
That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be
"chosen" by London taxi-proprietors.
Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO
relaxed the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between
kerbs) in order to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed.
They would not have passed that test.

I thought the Vito had to be a specially modified model with rear wheel
steering in order to pass the test? Or have they since got rid of the
requirement?

There is a London cab driver (with a LTI TX model) living a few doors
away from me. I rely upon him for the information that the 24' (some
say 25') turning circle requirement has been relaxed (to 28').

That is confirmed (to the extent that anything ever is) at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditions_of_Fitness

Standards just aren't what they used to be! There were rear wheel steering
Vitos in service, though. Some drivers must be kicking themselves!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

Robin9 wrote:

;151218 Wrote:
In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:
--
;151187']On 17/10/2015 10:02, Robin9 wrote:-

;151173 Wrote:-
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:
-
On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:-
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
-
In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.-

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed
hackney carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars.
What

possible justification can there be for this?-

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.-

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and
hire
cars. The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like
Addison Lee cars in London are.-

Addison Lee vehicles are cleared marked on the back with the
company logo. However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.-

Not everyone using transport in London comes from London.

Not everyone using transport in London comes from a town or city
where the proper purpose-built taxi can be found and purpose-built
taxis are
fitted with a taximeter and a sign on the roof in order to
distinguish them from any other car on the road.


into believing that a London pirate car is somehow a "taxi".

There are even some people who will deny that obvious truth.-

It may be the case that a small minority of people travelling in
London are unfamiliar with the iconic London Taxi and also don't
know that licensed minicabs have a yellow sticker on both front
and rear windscreens. However such people are extremely unlikely
to be sufficiently knowledgeable and sufficiently eagle-eyed to
notice the meter and make a decision accordingly.

I don't know why Tony Blair's government decreed that minicabs
in London were not allowed to have a meter in the car - probably
the usual blend of ignorance, incomprehension and prejudice - but
I can't believe it was to help people differentiate between taxis and
-

Was that decided in legislation or by the Mayor? In the rest of the
country
which has had hire car legislation since 1976 it's up to the licensing
authority which is the local council in all cases, even where there is
an
executive Mayor.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

I've read on several occasions that the Act of Parliament has a
specific clause or sub-clause expressly stating that meters are
not allowed in London private hire vehicles.

I've never read through the Act line by line so I can be only
99% certain.

I wonder why? I don't see what that has to do with being a genuine private
hire vehicle.

I use my trusty local minicab firm (ie, not Uber) to get to Heathrow from
time to time (properly booked in advance). The fare always varies by a few
pounds, and once, when it was a bit higher than the usual range, I
commented on it. The driver pointed at his mobile phone, which had
calculated it based on the longer than usual time the journey had taken.
So the minicab firm had obviously supplied an app that calculated the fare
based on time and distance (the destination is always pre-programmed into
the app). I don't see what's wrong with that.

Uber app is not a taximeter
 

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 04:42:22 on Tue, 20 Oct 2015, Recliner
remarked:
I use my trusty local minicab firm (ie, not Uber) to get to Heathrow from
time to time (properly booked in advance). The fare always varies by a few
pounds, and once, when it was a bit higher than the usual range, I
commented on it. The driver pointed at his mobile phone, which had
calculated it based on the longer than usual time the journey had taken.
So the minicab firm had obviously supplied an app that calculated the fare
based on time and distance (the destination is always pre-programmed into
the app).

I don't think I've ever taken a local minicab to/from an airport other
than on a fixed fare (quoted in advance) basis.

I don't see what's wrong with that.

As long as you are told in advance what the charging process is.
--
Roland Perry