Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 02:37:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:40:46 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.

Charles, stop being so obtuse. You know very well that what they correctly
said was that *Scotland's* oil was running out.

Not all of the oil in the North Sea is in Scottish waters and there
are more undeveloped fields in the west.

Does the SNP now also claim the oil in Norwegian waters?

Norway is East of Scotland.

Funny, I'd never noticed. But which other oil producing regions does the
SNP claim are Scotland's?

What royalties do you think Scotland could claim in the next 30 years from
the legendary west of Shetland fields? That oil seems to be as close as
Dounreay's fusion power (always 30 years away).


There have been
undeveloped fields in the west for decades. There still will be just as
many in decades to come, because there are many cheaper places to extract
oil.


It was the SNP that lied, on this and many other topics.

Oh ?

LIB - Carmichael - In danger of losing seat because of lies.
[http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2015/...ael-case-ends]

LIB/LAB/CON - Promised new Scotland Bill ready to be voted on by 25th
January. Bill is still making way through Westminster.

LAB - Claims that "Scottish Labour" is a political party when it is
merely a registered alias of GB Labour.

LAB/LIB/CON - Claimed thousands depend on Trident for jobs at Faslane
- MOD later confirms they only employ 159 and contractors employ about
360. Figures had been puffed up by counting 3500 sailors and 3000
other staff mostly not employed on Trident, many of whom are not
always there.

But all of which will be lost if the nuclear subs move out of Faslane.

No, it is a favoured location for a future Scottish naval base. The
boats don't fix themselves.

Yup, a few fishery protection vessels, and maybe one inherited destroyer.
That should create several dozen maintenance jobs to replace several
thousand.


In any case, what do those trivial points have to do with the far more
significant SNP's lies?

Such as ?

Currency, EU membership, oil price and royalties. Vastly more significant
than where the Scottish Labour Party is registered.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:01:38 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

Although unmeasured I suspect the amount of tunnelling is greater on
Borisrail than the simplified, more strategic version.

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

Now that really is expensive. Although in the long term London and
the Southeast will need more capacity, IMHO a simple incremental
approach is better. That way the use of public finds is spread over a
longer period. The travelling public sees steady improvement.

The Raynes Park station does not need to be subterranean. There may
be space to squeeze the surfacing tracks in in order to use the
existing branch platforms. Otherwise there is plenty of space between
the two running tracks of the branch after they leave the mainline and
before they resume the normal six foot.

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 10:09:45 AM UTC, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\30 23:28, Robin9 wrote:

I note that there seems to be no provision to create an interchange
with the Barking/Gospel Oak service even though the suggested route
pretty well passes under South Tottenham station. I assume whoever
created this plan is aware that the Overground service is growing fast
but needs to provide more opportunities to change to other routes?

The Seven Sisters station will have "A new southern ticket hall and
entrance onto the High Road/Ermine Road.. A dedicated link between South
Tottenham and the new southern ticket hall".

But at Tottenham Hale it seems that there will be no interchange with
the Goblin, even though a 250m platform would stretch from the current
station to the Goblin line, if they built it south of the road instead
of north.

This is TfL folly. This project has been cobbled together. We need
responsibly operated LTPB for the Home Counties. The "Mayer of (the
Region of) London malarkey is a nonsense.

I had presumed that the new line would be the fast line built to the
east with platforms only at Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt and Broxbourne, and
that the existing line would become the dedicated Crossrail 2 line. But
https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/...on%20FINAL.pdf
shows that CR2 will have the middle tracks, so the existing southbound
platforms will become island platforms for CR2, with the existing
northbound platforms abandoned on what will be the new fast northbound.
Tottenham Hale will have only one new platform built to the east, so
building it south of the road probably isn't entirely practical.

BTW, Crossrail 2 is a bit of a mouthful. Can we call it Happyrail? Maybe
the Overground should be Noughtrail?

In its present form call it Borisrail? Boris's Folly?

On 01/11/2015 00:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.


Another story you can't get right, one day you will have to face up to
the fact that all these straw men are just that.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.

On 01/11/2015 01:40, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.

Charles, stop being so obtuse. You know very well that what they correctly
said was that *Scotland's* oil was running out. It was the SNP that lied,
on this and many other topics. If fracking ever gets going in England, it
may be producing more oil than Scotland.


Even without fracking[1] that may well be the case, the biggest problem
is Nimbyism, not something you get a lot of in the North Sea.

AIUI the current target of fracking is gas rather than oil.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.

On 01/11/2015 02:53, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 02:37:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:40:46 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.

Charles, stop being so obtuse. You know very well that what they correctly
said was that *Scotland's* oil was running out.

Not all of the oil in the North Sea is in Scottish waters and there
are more undeveloped fields in the west.

Does the SNP now also claim the oil in Norwegian waters?

Norway is East of Scotland.

There have been
undeveloped fields in the west for decades. There still will be just as
many in decades to come, because there are many cheaper places to extract
oil.


It was the SNP that lied, on this and many other topics.

Oh ?

LIB - Carmichael - In danger of losing seat because of lies.
[http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2015/...ael-case-ends]

LIB/LAB/CON - Promised new Scotland Bill ready to be voted on by 25th
January. Bill is still making way through Westminster.

LAB - Claims that "Scottish Labour" is a political party when it is
merely a registered alias of GB Labour.

LAB/LIB/CON - Claimed thousands depend on Trident for jobs at Faslane
- MOD later confirms they only employ 159 and contractors employ about
360. Figures had been puffed up by counting 3500 sailors and 3000
other staff mostly not employed on Trident, many of whom are not
always there.

But all of which will be lost if the nuclear subs move out of Faslane.

No, it is a favoured location for a future Scottish naval base. The
boats don't fix themselves.


How many people does it take to maintain a couple of motor launches?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.

On 2015\11\01 10:15, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:01:38 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

Now that really is expensive.

Why? Tunnels are cheap, especially under parkland: it's underground
stations that are dear, isn't it? Actually, let's run the new mainline
from Esher to Clapham instead, thus avoiding two tunnels under the
Thames and bringing the cost down. Surely a 9 mile twin tunnel with a
pair of platforms under Kingston would be cheaper than a pair of six
mile tunnels with a two-platform station under Balham and a
four-platform station under Wimbledon? (ignoring all tunnels at and
north of Clapham Junction, which would be the same in either plan).
Crossrail2 would then have loads of room on the existing four tracks
through Wimbledon and Surbiton to do whatever it liked, and access to
the new depot at Weir Road would be simplified by having all of the
Crossrail2 trains running past on the adjacent surface railway.

I've come up with a name for Crossrail2... BendSinisterRail, or just
SinisterRail for short.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_(..._sinister. 22

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 03:05:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 02:37:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:40:46 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.

Charles, stop being so obtuse. You know very well that what they correctly
said was that *Scotland's* oil was running out.

Not all of the oil in the North Sea is in Scottish waters and there
are more undeveloped fields in the west.

Does the SNP now also claim the oil in Norwegian waters?

Norway is East of Scotland.

Funny, I'd never noticed. But which other oil producing regions does the
SNP claim are Scotland's?

Roughly the same as HMG does.

What royalties do you think Scotland could claim in the next 30 years from
the legendary west of Shetland fields? That oil seems to be as close as
Dounreay's fusion power (always 30 years away).

The Foinavon field has been producing oil for the last 18 years.


There have been
undeveloped fields in the west for decades. There still will be just as
many in decades to come, because there are many cheaper places to extract
oil.


It was the SNP that lied, on this and many other topics.

Oh ?

LIB - Carmichael - In danger of losing seat because of lies.
[http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2015/...ael-case-ends]

LIB/LAB/CON - Promised new Scotland Bill ready to be voted on by 25th
January. Bill is still making way through Westminster.

LAB - Claims that "Scottish Labour" is a political party when it is
merely a registered alias of GB Labour.

LAB/LIB/CON - Claimed thousands depend on Trident for jobs at Faslane
- MOD later confirms they only employ 159 and contractors employ about
360. Figures had been puffed up by counting 3500 sailors and 3000
other staff mostly not employed on Trident, many of whom are not
always there.

But all of which will be lost if the nuclear subs move out of Faslane.

No, it is a favoured location for a future Scottish naval base. The
boats don't fix themselves.

Yup, a few fishery protection vessels, and maybe one inherited destroyer.

Ireland has five naval vessels and two Large Protection vessels. Like
Scotland, they don't have plans to do any imperial willy-waving in
more foreign parts.

That should create several dozen maintenance jobs to replace several
thousand.

Most of that several thousand being somewhat theoretical if not
imaginary.


In any case, what do those trivial points have to do with the far more
significant SNP's lies?

Such as ?

Currency, EU membership, oil price and royalties. Vastly more significant
than where the Scottish Labour Party is registered.

Yes, And ?

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 18:32:23 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 01/11/2015 02:53, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 02:37:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:40:46 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.

Charles, stop being so obtuse. You know very well that what they correctly
said was that *Scotland's* oil was running out.

Not all of the oil in the North Sea is in Scottish waters and there
are more undeveloped fields in the west.

Does the SNP now also claim the oil in Norwegian waters?

Norway is East of Scotland.

There have been
undeveloped fields in the west for decades. There still will be just as
many in decades to come, because there are many cheaper places to extract
oil.


It was the SNP that lied, on this and many other topics.

Oh ?

LIB - Carmichael - In danger of losing seat because of lies.
[http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2015/...ael-case-ends]

LIB/LAB/CON - Promised new Scotland Bill ready to be voted on by 25th
January. Bill is still making way through Westminster.

LAB - Claims that "Scottish Labour" is a political party when it is
merely a registered alias of GB Labour.

LAB/LIB/CON - Claimed thousands depend on Trident for jobs at Faslane
- MOD later confirms they only employ 159 and contractors employ about
360. Figures had been puffed up by counting 3500 sailors and 3000
other staff mostly not employed on Trident, many of whom are not
always there.

But all of which will be lost if the nuclear subs move out of Faslane.

No, it is a favoured location for a future Scottish naval base. The
boats don't fix themselves.


How many people does it take to maintain a couple of motor launches?

The current fisheries protection vessels are respectively 781, 2181
and 2181 tonnes. The smaller one is a bit heavier than a Hunt class
minesweeper and the other two a bit heavier than an RN River class
vessel and of comparable size to Irish naval vessels.
If/when independence occurs the Grey Funnel Line will have more
offshore protection vessels than they need (if the current mob in
Westminster haven't shaved things down any more) so the logical thing
to do is leave behind those already used in Scottish waters.

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 18:27:53 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 01/11/2015 00:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:02:08 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:03:37 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\10\31 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\10\31 09:34, e27002 aurora wrote:

Dalston, Angel and St Pancras look reasonable. BUT, then the line
heads for Victoria. Victoria already has a direct route toKX/St P.
But Waterloo does not. Why not follow the route of the WWI plan for
an express Northern Line pair to Waterloo?

Boris's new toy then follows a zigzag route to Wimbledon. Wimbledon
is already well served and cramped. Adding the entrances here for a
Crossrail station will be difficult. Moreover it adds little value.
Anyone heading from Wimbledon to Victoria has a choice of routes. One
can change at Clapham Junction, or use the District Line.

Why not continue to shadow the Northern Line with Stations at
Kennington, Clapham North, Balham, Tooting Broadway, and South
Wimbledon?

Borisrail then continues to Raynes Park. There is a logic to this
because several of the main SW suburban routes have converged there.
But Boris's route then runs onto them ALL. That begs the question: Why
retain the slow pair from Waterloo. How does TfL, et al, expect to
maintain the discipline of a rapid transit service with four branches?

No, from Colliers Wood Crossrail two should continue to Raynes Park
for interchange and then take over the pair towards Motspur Park. The
route could terminate at Chessington and Horsham. The later will
provide many valuable connections to, and from, the outer suburbs.


That sounds dear. I don't know why everybody wants to build underground
stations everywhere. They're dear!

By 2030 the Waterloo trains will probably all be electric or bi-mode. I
suggest a new twin-tunnel mainline from Hersham to Clapham Junction with
a pair of tunnelled platforms at Kingston, to replace Surbiton as the
principal station in the area. That would free up lots of room on the
surface lines through Wimbledon and Surbiton for more local trains which
could then go into the CR2 tunnel near Clapham Junction in approximately
the same place as the mainline tunnel ended.

I forgot to say that the mainline would be under parkland for much of
the route and under the A3 for another chunk, all of which cheapens and
simplifies construction.

If the oil runs out you could put the railway on one side of the A3 as
the other side might be all that's needed for what's left of public
and goods road transport.

The oil isn't running out any time soon,

Strange, three parties spent two years telling people in Scotland that
it was.


Another story you can't get right, one day you will have to face up to
the fact that all these straw men are just that.

https://twitter.com/uk_together/stat...42752171368448