In message , at 12:24:31
on Wed, 25 Nov 2015, remarked:
the existing Shenfield trains use 16,17,18. When Crossrail
opens they will go through the centre (i.e. the new Liverpool
Street Crossrail platforms) except for some in the peak that will
go into the existing Liverpool Street using platforms 16 and 17
- 18 will have been lost to make 16 and 17 long enough.

Yes, so a platform has been lost. And this is when TfL will at some
point want to increase the frequency of the Overground running to
LS.

A platform which Overground trains could not get to without
destroying the capacity of the station throat.

I think he was suggesting that the tracks into the platforms all be
budged over one, rather than that trains from the westernmost track
use the easternmost platform. I have no idea how easy it would be to
do that.

Aren't 9 and 10 the only ones that can take the Norwich trains?

No. All are long enough except 16,17,18. In terms of track layout
(getting to and from the fast lines), all of 5-14 seem to be possible,
and I have seen all of 8-12 myself over the years.

I thought 9 and 10 were longer than the rest. Or did that go in the
rebuilding? I usually do see Norwich loco and DVT trains there.

According to this map they are all the same length, apart fro 17 & 18
which are slightly shorter:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/ht...tml?rtnloc=LST
--
Roland Perry

"2.4.4 Following the introduction of Crossrail services, the number of
platforms at London Liverpool Street station will reduce from 18 to 17.
This is to enable platforms 16 and 17 to be lengthened to accommodate
Crossrail trains; platform 18 will be taken out of commission."

That does imply that there's some period where there will be only 2
platforms available at Liv St, but that they won't be extended to cope
with 9 cars by that point? Presumably there will be a period when 9 cars
will go through the tunnel, but all surface services will still be 7?

On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:15:02 +0000, wrote:

I wonder if they plan to do a mock up anywhere in town.


http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/11/her...ide-crossrail-
train-carriages-4g-wi-fi-and-air-conditioning-as-standard/

While I'm sure I could find this somewhere if I looked myself (*cough*)
are there numbers to hand which would give the capacity of the current 7
car trains (standing and seated) against 7 cars of the new Crossrail
stock, and then the 9 cars of the Crossrail stock?

I'm keen to know how much extra capacity will be unlocked by the move.

(it did pain me a little when I found out the actual number of trains
along the Shenfield line won't significantly increase post Crossrail,
though the lengthening and improving of the rolling stock will make a
decent difference, even if it's only short term before it fills up)

On 2015\11\26 17:40, Martin Petrov wrote:

"2.4.4 Following the introduction of Crossrail services, the number of
platforms at London Liverpool Street station will reduce from 18 to 17.
This is to enable platforms 16 and 17 to be lengthened to accommodate
Crossrail trains; platform 18 will be taken out of commission."

That does imply that there's some period where there will be only 2
platforms available at Liv St, but that they won't be extended to cope
with 9 cars by that point? Presumably there will be a period when 9 cars
will go through the tunnel, but all surface services will still be 7?

Or there will be a period where all trains from Shenfield go though the
tunnel.

While I'm sure I could find this somewhere if I looked myself (*cough*)
are there numbers to hand which would give the capacity of the current 7
car trains (standing and seated) against 7 cars of the new Crossrail
stock, and then the 9 cars of the Crossrail stock?

The existing trains are two 4 car class 315 units running in mulitple.
Therefore 8 cars. The loadings are so bad people can't board trains and
TfL Rail has recently starting banning entry to llford station with
people forced to queue outside due to platform overcrowding.

I'm keen to know how much extra capacity will be unlocked by the move.

(it did pain me a little when I found out the actual number of trains
along the Shenfield line won't significantly increase post Crossrail,
though the lengthening and improving of the rolling stock will make a
decent difference, even if it's only short term before it fills up)

Does Wikipedia not give some capacity info for 315s and 345s (CR
trains)?

Wikipedia had some of the info, but I did find this elsewhe

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/
file/4153/tpecapacities.pdf

Class 315 (data is for 4 cars, so doubling up)

636 seats
226 standing
862 total

Class 345 (data is for 9 cars, rather than 10 - is the 10 car set up for
later?)

450 seats
1150 standing
1500 total

(which is a pretty significant total increase....)

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

*Subject:* Crossrail Rolling Stock
*From:* Paul Corfield
*Date:* Fri, 27 Nov 2015 23:23:01 +0000

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 20:42:38 +0000 (UTC), Martin Petrov
wrote:

Wikipedia had some of the info, but I did find this elsewhe

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/
file/4153/tpecapacities.pdf

Class 315 (data is for 4 cars, so doubling up)

636 seats
226 standing
862 total

Class 345 (data is for 9 cars, rather than 10 - is the 10 car set up
for later?)

450 seats
1150 standing
1500 total

(which is a pretty significant total increase....)

You did better than me on the 315 capacities. I found seating but not
standing capacities.

the 345s will initially be 7 cars when they run into Liv St prior to
May 2019. From that point they need to be 9 cars and will have the 2
cars re-inserted for running through the tunnel. I think when
Crossrail takes over Heathrow Connect in May 2018 that those trains
will be 9 cars but they'll run solely on the surface at that time.
There is no 10 car design. The 345s are extendable to 11 cars and
the central area platforms are all built to that length but may need
finishing / fitting out whenever the 11 car decision is taken.

Timeline

May 2017 - 345s enter service Shenfield - Liv St (surface) 7 cars
May 2018 - Crossrail takes over Heathrow T4 - Paddington "Connect"
service. 9 cars.
Dec 2018 - Paddington (low level) - Abbey Wood service starts. 9 cars
May 2019 - Paddington (low level) - Shenfield service added. 9 cars
Dec 2019 - Full through service Shenfield / Abbey Wood - Heathrow /
Reading. 9 cars.
Sometime in the future - trains possibly extended to 11 cars.

The point of the 9-car Crossrail Aventras is that they are the length of a
10-car train of standard stock, e.g. 315s, which are 20m long. So the class
345 cars will be ~22m long, making a 7-car train similar in length to an
8-car class 315 formation.

These lengths are a bit approximate as was discovered when they wanted to
run 12-car trains of class 365 stock from Cambridge to King's Cross.
Platform 1 was supposed to be long enough for 12-car trains. It is, but only
for class 317s. 365s are that little bit longer and wouldn't fit between the
starting signal and the scissors crossover, hence expensive platform
lengthening work.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , Eric
wrote:
Aren't 9 and 10 the only ones that can take the Norwich trains?

No. All are long enough except 16,17,18.

[Someone may have said this before, but I haven't seen it.]

Before the complete rebuild, 9 and 10 were significantly longer than the
rest. Then were the east side (11 to 18) which I think stayed the same
length when rebuilt, while the west side (1 to 8) were a lot shorter
(something like 6 or 8 chains).

In terms of track layout
(getting to and from the fast lines), all of 5-14 seem to be possible,
and I have seen all of 8-12 myself over the years.

The Suburbans connect to 1 to 10.

The Mains connect to 5 to 14.

The Electrics connect to 13 to 18, though Bishopgate Jn means that a
train on the Up Electric can switch to the Up Main.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , (Clive D.
W. Feather) wrote:

In message , Eric
wrote:
Aren't 9 and 10 the only ones that can take the Norwich trains?

No. All are long enough except 16,17,18.

[Someone may have said this before, but I haven't seen it.]

Before the complete rebuild, 9 and 10 were significantly longer than
the rest. Then were the east side (11 to 18) which I think stayed the
same length when rebuilt, while the west side (1 to 8) were a lot
shorter (something like 6 or 8 chains).

Wasn't the throat moved east and the west side platforms extended at the
country end?

In terms of track layout
(getting to and from the fast lines), all of 5-14 seem to be possible,
and I have seen all of 8-12 myself over the years.

The Suburbans connect to 1 to 10.

The Mains connect to 5 to 14.

The Electrics connect to 13 to 18, though Bishopgate Jn means that a
train on the Up Electric can switch to the Up Main.

Thanks for the details, complete as ever, Clive.

--
Colin Rosenstiel