On 2015\11\26 13:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:29:15 on Thu, 26 Nov
2015, d remarked:

Hard to put one's finger on it. It is using the verb "build" as a
noun in an untraditional way. Building is the noun derived from to
build.

The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future"

Also commonly used the last 20 years in software engineering to describe
the output from an assembler/compiler/linker.

"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be
known
as programming but I guess that didn't have enough gravitas for some
people.

Long ago there were "Systems analysts" who drew up the specifications
for what they thought needed doing, and programmers were just the
"brickies" putting it together.

IMO programming is as much art as it is engineering and doesn't really
deserve the engineering moniker, especially given that most of us who
work
in programming don't have the professional qualifications or
certfications
equivalent to those who do real engineering. And no, Mickeysoft Certfied
Engineer doesn't count.

There's a whole spectrum of different complexities of programming, but
the closer you get to the metal the more you need to understand the
engineering function you are trying to provide.

Metal, of course, being a baffling jargon term for silicon.

On 26/11/15 13:29, d wrote:
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

Ian

On 26/11/15 12:03, Robin wrote:
The OED's oldest example of "build" as a noun (= "a building") is
attributed to 1387. It shows it as obsolete but changes in English
usage are often "back to the future"

I strongly suspect that it has been taken from German: Neubau, Tiefbau,
Umbau (a personal favourite - how many syllables does English need to
get close to that?) and so on.

Ian

In message , at 15:31:47 on Thu, 26 Nov
2015, Basil Jet remarked:

There's a whole spectrum of different complexities of programming, but
the closer you get to the metal the more you need to understand the
engineering function you are trying to provide.

Metal, of course, being a baffling jargon term for silicon.

It's far broader than that. For example if you are writing the software
to operate the hammers in a lineprinter you are literally bashing the
metal (rather than throwing a stream of ASCII at a port number for
someone else's software to turn into marks on the paper).
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:29:09 +0000
The Real Doctor wrote:
On 26/11/15 13:29, d wrote:
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

--
Spud

In message , at 09:49:30 on Fri, 27 Nov
2015, d remarked:
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Paging messrs Dunning and Kruger.
--
Roland Perry

On 2015-11-27, d wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:29:09 +0000
The Real Doctor wrote:
On 26/11/15 13:29, d wrote:
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience.

Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Yes, but if you follow them carefully you will get a system that looks
like it was designed _and_ written by aformentioned eejit.

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 10:48:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:49:30 on Fri, 27 Nov
2015, d remarked:
"Software engineering" is another recent phrase. Its what used to be known
as programming

Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Paging messrs Dunning and Kruger.

Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?

Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPu_d4SSOPk

--
Spud

In message , at 13:46:37 on Fri, 27 Nov
2015, d remarked:
Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Someone with greater skills than the average surgeon.

Having done all aspects of development through from writing user specs down
to programming, I can assure that the actual programming is by far the hardest
task, takes the most time and takes the most experience. Any eejit can knock
up a flow chart in powerpoint and do a high level functional spec as
barely qualified managers prove on a daily basis.

Paging messrs Dunning and Kruger.

Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?

Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

QED.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:57:50 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:46:37 on Fri, 27 Nov
2015, d remarked:
Programming is to software engineering as lathe operation is to
mechanical engineering.

LOL, yeah right. Thats like saying a surgeon is just the gut who makes the
incisions and ties some knots in string.

The hard bit was the clinical trials leading to that procedure being
approved.

And who do you think does the clinical trials on patients? Some guy on
jobseekers allowance from the dole office?

Someone with greater skills than the average surgeon.

I realise this is usenet, but I would suggest you don't comment on things you
clearly know the square root of bugger all about.

Well isn't it odd how programmers quite easily transition over to management
but you almost never see the reverse happening even though contract coder
salaries can actually be considerably higher in a lot of industries?

Programming is a learnt skill, management is just common sense - any feckin
idiot who can speak in more than one syllable and can learn a few buzzwords
can do it.

QED.

Really? You think because you do a management non job at that vacuous campaign
lobby group its up the ladder from what you did at Amstrad? I'll tell you
something pal, it won't be your current role you'll be remembered for.

Amusing website though your employer has. More buzzwords than a BBC strategy
white paper.

--
Spud