if the card has now been used for the first time
for TfL it can probably be used again in a shop without the first time PIN.

Except I've never been asked for that "first-time" PIN. Have you?

I used my US issued AmEx card on the Underground last month. Worked
fine. It's just as well they didn't ask for a PIN, since AmEx is quite
clear that these cards have no PINs.

Indeed, they insist that they are unable to issue chip cards with
PINs, although I have a UK-issued AmEx card that tells me their left
and right hands could benefit from an introduction.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 12:50:45 -0600,
wrote:

I've not been asked for a PIN on any contactless transaction.

If contactless is declined, it will be done as an old-fashioned "chip
and PIN" transaction, in my experience.

Richard.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:58:38 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:51:45 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:

At least two of my cards have only *ever* been used as contactless on
TfL (I got them to play with), and they both worked fine first time.

Good to know TfL are completely ignoring basic banking security. Makes me
glad I've disabled all my contactless cards.

They're not - they worked with the banks to create the PIN-less
protocol, and given the relatively small values, they must have
decided it was a risk worth taking. I'd give them the credit for
introducing something not possible in most of the rest of the world.

Richard.

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 12:50:45 -0600,
wrote:

I've not been asked for a PIN on any contactless transaction.

If contactless is declined, it will be done as an old-fashioned "chip
and PIN" transaction, in my experience.

Never seen a contactless transaction attempt declined.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 18:41:06
on Fri, 4 Dec 2015, remarked:

If contactless is declined, it will be done as an old-fashioned "chip
and PIN" transaction, in my experience.

Never seen a contactless transaction attempt declined.

Same here.
--
Roland Perry

On 04/12/2015 14:58, d wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:51:45 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
At least two of my cards have only *ever* been used as contactless on
TfL (I got them to play with), and they both worked fine first time.

Good to know TfL are completely ignoring basic banking security. Makes me
glad I've disabled all my contactless cards.

And there was me thinking that by never using any of my cards in a
contactless terminal in a shop I was thereby making them useless to a
thief who wanted to use them on a train or bus service.

On the plus side, it does mean if I'm unlucky/stupid enough to lose my
Oyster card I could use one of them in emergency. But if would have
nice to have known about this security hole in advance.

--
Clive Page

On 2015-12-05 09:55:14 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 09:51:13 +0000, eastender wrote:

Is it no longer possible to buy a single bus ticket? My son has left
his Oyster card somewhere and is coming into Euston tonight - does he
have to buy a one day card to use the bus?

Yes unless he has a contactless payment card. A One Day Bus and Tram
pass is £5 and purchasable from a tube ticket machine.

Alternatively he could simply make sure his train ticket was booked
through to Dalston Junction - it is a National Rail station after all!
Obviously this depends on what type of ticket he's using but worth
bearing in mind as there's likely to be little difference in cost for
a ticket to Euston and one to Dalston Junction / Kingsland. It will
almost certainly be valid for use on the tube as well but worth double
checking.

His train from Wigan was late but he manged to get to Highbury on the
Victoria and then walked home from there, as the Overground was shut by
then.

Take the point about booking to/from Dalston - this just hadn't occured to us.

E.

On 2015-12-05 22:48:58 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:53:25 +0000, eastender wrote:

Take the point about booking to/from Dalston - this just hadn't occured to us.

A quick look at the fares at brfares.com for Wigan - Dalston and Wigan
- Euston shows about £2.80 difference on the std class Saver return
which is way less than the return fare by LU & Overground. The ticket
to Dalston includes tube travel as required (cross symbol is shown
against the route description).

One other difference that I don't entirely understand is that there
are more advance discounted fares to Euston than to Dalston.

Thanks. With a student card his fare Wigan to Euston (single) was just
£19, but he had to get a late train.

E.

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 12:50:45 -0600,
wrote:

I've not been asked for a PIN on any contactless transaction.

If contactless is declined, it will be done as an old-fashioned "chip
and PIN" transaction, in my experience.

Never seen a contactless transaction attempt declined.

I had to complete a contactless transaction as a chip & PIN transaction
once. The till operator told me this happens sometimes if an invalid PIN
attempt has been flagged for the previous transaction, as was indeed the
case.

I don't know if this would cause a subsequent contactless transaction to
fail if chip & PIN facilities aren't available.

--
DAS

In message , at 11:52:34 on Sun, 6 Dec
2015, D A Stocks remarked:

Never seen a contactless transaction attempt declined.

I had to complete a contactless transaction as a chip & PIN transaction
once. The till operator told me this happens sometimes if an invalid
PIN attempt has been flagged for the previous transaction, as was
indeed the case.

I don't know if this would cause a subsequent contactless transaction
to fail if chip & PIN facilities aren't available.

If I remember, I'll try that tomorrow. All I need to do is put one of my
cards in an ATM and deliberately use the wrong PIN, then try to use it
on TfL. If it is rejected, then I can then try the same card in a C&P
enabled contactless terminal elsewhere.
--
Roland Perry