On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 18:04:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:44:40 on Fri, 4 Dec
2015, d remarked:

if the card has now been used for the first time
for TfL it can probably be used again in a shop without the first time PIN.

Except I've never been asked for that "first-time" PIN. Have you?

No. But then I don't use contactless. There was a reason PINs were required
for using cards - that reason hasn't gone away just for conveniences sake
and because people are too lazy or too stupid to spend 10 seconds entering
one.

--
Spud

On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 00:26:35 +0000
Richard wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:58:38 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:
Good to know TfL are completely ignoring basic banking security. Makes me
glad I've disabled all my contactless cards.

They're not - they worked with the banks to create the PIN-less
protocol, and given the relatively small values, they must have

TfL had nothing to do with it - the protocol already existed. They just
jumped on the bandwagon, almost certainly because now the blonde buffoon
has closed all the ticket offices it'll make it harder for people to buy
Oyster cards.

decided it was a risk worth taking. I'd give them the credit for
introducing something not possible in most of the rest of the world.

I'll give the rest of the world credit for not allowing people free travel
on a stolen card.

--
Spud

In message , at 13:09:02 on Mon, 7 Dec
2015, d remarked:

if the card has now been used for the first time

for TfL it can probably be used again in a shop without the first time PIN.



Except I've never been asked for that "first-time" PIN. Have you?



No. But then I don't use contactless. There was a reason PINs were required

for using cards - that reason hasn't gone away just for conveniences sake

and because people are too lazy or too stupid to spend 10 seconds entering

one.


PIN pads on TfL gates would slow down the throughput a tad.

--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:12:34 on Mon, 7 Dec
2015, d remarked:

now the blonde buffoon has closed all the ticket offices it'll make it
harder for people to buy Oyster cards.

It's actually vastly easier now, because they can be bought from the
ticket machines.
--
Roland Perry

I'll give the rest of the world credit for not allowing people free travel
on a stolen card.

Huh. Last I heard stolen Oyster cards work just fine.

Keep in mind that it's hard to spend more than £12/day with an Oyster
unless you're commuting to the suburbs, and that stolen cards usually
get shut off in a day or two. If I were a bank, I'd have much bigger
fish to fry.

I gather that even before chip+pin, merchant fraud using physically
stolen cards wasn't a big deal, and point of the chip was to prevent
skimming and cloning. Switching from signature pin is for the bank's
benefit, so they and the merchants don't have to store all those
little signed slips on the off chance someone challenges one of them.

In message , at 12:22:48 on Sun, 6 Dec
2015, Roland Perry remarked:
Never seen a contactless transaction attempt declined.

I had to complete a contactless transaction as a chip & PIN
transaction once. The till operator told me this happens sometimes if
an invalid PIN attempt has been flagged for the previous transaction,
as was indeed the case.

I don't know if this would cause a subsequent contactless transaction
to fail if chip & PIN facilities aren't available.

If I remember, I'll try that tomorrow. All I need to do is put one of
my cards in an ATM and deliberately use the wrong PIN, then try to use
it on TfL.

I did the above, and the TfL gates accepted the card quite happily. So
it's not an instant-kill situation.

I've successfully used the card in an ATM, and on TfL, months ago, so
that may have established some sort of track record - for the card
rather than me or someone who had stolen it off me.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 15:04:16 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:09:02 on Mon, 7 Dec
2015, d remarked:

if the card has now been used for the first time

for TfL it can probably be used again in a shop without the first time PIN.



Except I've never been asked for that "first-time" PIN. Have you?



No. But then I don't use contactless. There was a reason PINs were required

for using cards - that reason hasn't gone away just for conveniences sake

and because people are too lazy or too stupid to spend 10 seconds entering

one.


PIN pads on TfL gates would slow down the throughput a tad.

I wasn't talking about TfL - there are alredy Oyster cards for that.

--
Spud

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:13:28 +0000 (UTC)
John Levine wrote:
I'll give the rest of the world credit for not allowing people free travel
on a stolen card.

Huh. Last I heard stolen Oyster cards work just fine.

Last I heard Oyster cards couldn't potentially clean out your bank account
unless you've set up auto top up and the thief wants to spend his days
riding public transport.

Keep in mind that it's hard to spend more than £12/day with an Oyster
unless you're commuting to the suburbs, and that stolen cards usually
get shut off in a day or two. If I were a bank, I'd have much bigger

It gets shut off so long as you notice you've lost it.

I gather that even before chip+pin, merchant fraud using physically
stolen cards wasn't a big deal, and point of the chip was to prevent
skimming and cloning. Switching from signature pin is for the bank's
benefit, so they and the merchants don't have to store all those
little signed slips on the off chance someone challenges one of them.

Well its always for the banks benefit, but they dress it up as if its
a magnanimous gesture aimed at us. PINs might not be fullproof but they're
a darn site better than a card that can be used by anyone who happens to be
holding it at the time.

--
Spud

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 15:06:02 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:12:34 on Mon, 7 Dec
2015, d remarked:

now the blonde buffoon has closed all the ticket offices it'll make it
harder for people to buy Oyster cards.

It's actually vastly easier now, because they can be bought from the
ticket machines.

How is using the convoluted menus on a ticket machine "vastly easier" than
going to a window and saying "Can I have an Oyster please?" ? Or if you're
a tourist and don't have a clue , well, good luck.

--
Spud

In message , at 09:21:55 on Tue, 8 Dec
2015, d remarked:
now the blonde buffoon has closed all the ticket offices it'll make it
harder for people to buy Oyster cards.

It's actually vastly easier now, because they can be bought from the
ticket machines.

How is using the convoluted menus on a ticket machine "vastly easier" than
going to a window and saying "Can I have an Oyster please?" ? Or if you're
a tourist and don't have a clue , well, good luck.

To get one from a window you had to queue, and when I got mine there was
a form to fill in. On the machines it's a very simple couple of button
presses, and at the places tourists might be arriving (like St Pancras)
the queues for the ticket machines are much shorter now than for the
windows in the past.
--
Roland Perry