On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:08 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 21:13:22 GMT, d wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 15:58:07 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Not exactly as I understand it. They will all go via Bank instead of
some going via Charing Cross.

That's one way of putting it. The other is that all Charing X trains go
to Battersea, with additional trains running via Bank to Morden. Either
way, there will be more stock, and more trains running.

Are these new trains going to be more of the same design or will they be
completely new? One would hope the latter given the current 95 stock are
a 20 year old design.

They are required to be a "modern equivalent design" for both Jubilee
and Northern lines. Given the need to avoid excessively different
maintenance regimes and the continuation of the PFI rolliing stock
contract on the Northern I'd be astonished if Alstom didn't get the
work. They run the Northern Line's depots so how else is another
supplier going to provide trains that they then have to have Alstom
maintain? Lots of scope for IPR and warranty issues in that sort of
setup.

Alstom no longer maintain the Jubilee Line trains as the work was
brought back in house. However similar arguments about minimising
differences in maintenance practices, driver stock familiarity etc
still come in to play.

The bigger issue for any supplier will be DDA compliance with the
stock.

Are the original 95 and 96 stock not compliant with the post 2020 regs?

Would they not be grandfathered in?

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:34:24 -0600,
wrote:

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

On 2015\12\29 12:14, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 12:11:04 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

Now that the Circle is a Tea Cup, the Hammersmith and City is no
longer needed. Why not replace it with a Metropolitan service from
Uxbridge to Barking?

Because they wanted the extra services to Hammersmith, but there isn't
enough capacity on the southern side of the Circle for more Circle
line trains. Also, the H&C stations to Barking may not be long enough
for S8 trains.

Indeed they aren't.

Hardly a major problem these days with SDO and walk-through trains, surely?

One would have thought not. But, we speak of TfL.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 15:54:23 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\29 12:01, Basil Jet wrote:
I'd be happy for the line that links Highgate with the City to be called
the Whittington Line, although there is already a line starting with W.

Alternatively the Stane Street Line, since it follows the Roman road of
that name from Colliers Wood to London Bridge.

Does not exactly have a pleasing ring, does it?

One is reminded of Spike Milligan's quip:

"How do you get rid of Staines?"

"Drop a bomb on it".

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
...

"Jarle Hammen Knudsen" wrote

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:18:24 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

Subject: By Londons Northern Line to Battersea

Why are you changing the subject line? It creates a new thread each
time you do that. It makes a mess.

Original subject was "By Northern Line to Battersea".

Only if your newsreader wants it that way.

Forte Agent has a profile option to show new thread if subject changes, I
expect you have it ON.

Oh so we all have to use Forte Agent, because Michael R N Dolbear says so?

tim

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:31:08 -0000, "tim....."
wrote:


"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
...

"Jarle Hammen Knudsen" wrote

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:18:24 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

Subject: By Londons Northern Line to Battersea

Why are you changing the subject line? It creates a new thread each
time you do that. It makes a mess.

Original subject was "By Northern Line to Battersea".

Only if your newsreader wants it that way.

Forte Agent has a profile option to show new thread if subject changes, I
expect you have it ON.

Oh so we all have to use Forte Agent, because Michael R N Dolbear says so?

Read Michael's post carefully. He was making a helpful suggestion to
Agent users, not saying you should use Agent.

"e27002 aurora" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:31:08 -0000, "tim....."
wrote:


"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
...

"Jarle Hammen Knudsen" wrote

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:18:24 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

Subject: By Londons Northern Line to Battersea

Why are you changing the subject line? It creates a new thread each
time you do that. It makes a mess.

Original subject was "By Northern Line to Battersea".

Only if your newsreader wants it that way.

Forte Agent has a profile option to show new thread if subject changes,
I
expect you have it ON.

Oh so we all have to use Forte Agent, because Michael R N Dolbear says so?

Read Michael's post carefully. He was making a helpful suggestion to
Agent users, not saying you should use Agent.

he said

"Only if your newsreaders wants it that way"

As my newsreader has no setting for this, he must be telling me to change
newsreader

tim

On 2015\12\30 13:45, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:34:37 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 04:54:19 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\30 04:30, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\12\29 22:11, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

Would be nice if they made them walk through. God knows, the northern line
trains need every bit of extra space they can get in the rush hour.

Extremely unlikely. There isn't time for an all-new articulated design,
plus it would be hard to keep them externally similar.

According to
http://www.lurs.org.uk/articles13_ht...ATT ERSEA.pdf

Nine Elms and Battersea will only have "passive provision" for PEDs.

Although, I can't imagine what passive provision for PEDs might be...
sufficiently large power cables leading to the platforms?

Straight and level platforms? Strong enough structure to support the PED
frames?

But the real reason for the train doors being the same size and position is
because the new trains will also be used on the Jubilee line, which needs a
larger fleet.


Although they could just transfer some 95s to the Jubilee Line and put
all of the new trains on the Northern. That actually sounds preferable
from a maintenance point of view, assuming the 95s and 96s are more
similar to each other than either will be to the new trains.

I'd quite like to know where the bottomless money pit is to fund these
larger batches of new trains in order to create some enthusiast's
dream of nice neat uniform train fleets.

A hysterical over-reaction. All I was saying was

(Jubilee = 96 + 95) & (Northern = 95 + new)

might be more uniform for maintenance purposes than

(Jubilee = 96 + new) & (Northern = 95 + new)

I wasn't advocating that an extra penny be spent or that either fleet be
uniform. You rescue your message by going on to say...

It is worth bearing in mind that there are traction package
differences between the 95 and 96 stocks so mixing those fleets is
perhaps not the best idea.

A valid point, thanks.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 13:50:26 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:37:50 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:
One would have thought not. But, we speak of TfL.

You really have no idea at all do you? All this "we speak of TfL"
nonsense is just a ludicrous sweeping statement where your version of
what should happen does not accord with reality. You have no idea
what is considered, what is assessed and what it would cost to deliver
the various options. Is anyone really complaining about the new S
stock trains on the H&C and Circle lines? Anyone? I haven't heard a
single moan about them.

Oh go on then... The low inset floors and curved platforms don't really mix.
Aldgate must be an absolute nightmare for any elderly people or small
children. Also because the body curves in at floor level to allow the lower
floor it reduces standing space in the door area.

--
Spud

tim..... wrote:

"e27002 aurora" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:31:08 -0000, "tim....."
wrote:


"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
...

"Jarle Hammen Knudsen" wrote

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:18:24 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

Subject: By Londons Northern Line to Battersea

Why are you changing the subject line? It creates a new thread each
time you do that. It makes a mess.

Original subject was "By Northern Line to Battersea".

Only if your newsreader wants it that way.

Forte Agent has a profile option to show new thread if subject changes,
I
expect you have it ON.

Oh so we all have to use Forte Agent, because Michael R N Dolbear says so?

Read Michael's post carefully. He was making a helpful suggestion to
Agent users, not saying you should use Agent.

he said

"Only if your newsreaders wants it that way"

As my newsreader has no setting for this, he must be telling me to change
newsreader


Well yes. However don't blame us if you are using a Microsoft app that
does not follow standards.



--
Mark

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:37:50 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:34:24 -0600,
wrote:

In article , (Basil
Jet) wrote:

On 2015\12\29 12:14, Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 12:11:04 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

Now that the Circle is a Tea Cup, the Hammersmith and City is no
longer needed. Why not replace it with a Metropolitan service from
Uxbridge to Barking?

Because they wanted the extra services to Hammersmith, but there
isn't enough capacity on the southern side of the Circle for more
Circle line trains. Also, the H&C stations to Barking may not be
long enough for S8 trains.

Indeed they aren't.

Hardly a major problem these days with SDO and walk-through trains,
surely?

One would have thought not. But, we speak of TfL.

You really have no idea at all do you? All this "we speak of TfL"
nonsense is just a ludicrous sweeping statement where your version of
what should happen does not accord with reality. You have no idea
what is considered, what is assessed and what it would cost to deliver
the various options. Is anyone really complaining about the new S
stock trains on the H&C and Circle lines? Anyone? I haven't heard a
single moan about them.

Yes we have had the whingeing from Met Line users but we are now in a
different era from times past in terms of the numbers that need
shifting. We all love to have a seat but never ending increasing
demand means that's simply not a realistic prospect any more.
Expectations will have to shift because it is not feasible nor
affordable to run enough trains of huge length to offer everyone the
prospect of a seat.

So S8s east of Aldgate shouldn't be a problem then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel