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By London's Northern Line to Battersea
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet wrote: On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: In message , Anna Noyd-Dryver writes Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point. We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C services now. Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only 6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now. Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling points haven't changed much. Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total. HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which both now provide H&C trains for service. So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators. But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington. Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith? At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring. That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel. The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that the need has faded. With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there. According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would have been taken over by CrossRail. The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction, and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line? Why would it then switch to the DC line? |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:18:16 -0800 (PST), ian batten
wrote: On Thursday, 14 January 2016 12:54:33 UTC, e27002 wrote: On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:58:22 +0000, Mizter T wrote: On 03/01/2016 10:48, e27002 aurora wrote: [...] And, yes I am aware the trendy thing is to keep all ones music on a hard drive. But, I like having the CDs. You're a bit out of date... music is streamed from the cloud these days! Possibly, Mizter T, but I do not like music in compressed formats. It loses fidelity. I listen to .wav and .cdr formats. You're presumably done a double-blind comparison of 44.1KHz 16 bit with 320kbps AAC? No, so why not recommend it rather than take a less than convivial tone? No, I didn't think so. |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:54:18 +0000, e27002 aurora wrote: On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:58:22 +0000, Mizter T wrote: On 03/01/2016 10:48, e27002 aurora wrote: [...] And, yes I am aware the trendy thing is to keep all ones music on a hard drive. But, I like having the CDs. You're a bit out of date... music is streamed from the cloud these days! Possibly, Mizter T, but I do not like music in compressed formats. It loses fidelity. I listen to .wav and .cdr formats. It varies amongst people but it is an unfortunate fact of life that although the format used may give better fidelity as people get older their ears may not. It need not necessarily be as straight cut as a blind man saying an HD telly has a better picture than a std one therefore he needs the HD version but many people don't realise how much detail their hearing is missing after around 40 to 50 years of age even though they are a long way off needing a hearing aid. Yes, very true. I always thought it ironic that the young can't afford top class hi-fi systems, and those old enough to afford them can no longer hear well enough to benefit. |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet wrote: On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: In message , Anna Noyd-Dryver writes Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point. We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C services now. Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only 6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now. Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling points haven't changed much. Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total. HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which both now provide H&C trains for service. So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators. But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington. Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith? At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring. That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel. The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that the need has faded. With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there. According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would have been taken over by CrossRail. The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction, and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line? A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned into the "wasteland" south of the station. Why would it then switch to the DC line? To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way) and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended platforms. |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet wrote: On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: In message , Anna Noyd-Dryver writes Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point. We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C services now. Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only 6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now. Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling points haven't changed much. Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total. HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which both now provide H&C trains for service. So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators. But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington. Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith? At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring. That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel. The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that the need has faded. With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there. According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would have been taken over by CrossRail. The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction, and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line? A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned into the "wasteland" south of the station. Why would it then switch to the DC line? To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way) and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended platforms. Ah, I don't recall that 'plan'. It's almost Bellsian in its bonkersness! |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:19:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet wrote: On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: In message , Anna Noyd-Dryver writes Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point. We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C services now. Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only 6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now. Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling points haven't changed much. Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total. HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which both now provide H&C trains for service. So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators. But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington. Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith? At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring. That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel. The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that the need has faded. With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there. According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would have been taken over by CrossRail. The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction, and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line? A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned into the "wasteland" south of the station. Why would it then switch to the DC line? To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way) and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended platforms. Ah, I don't recall that 'plan'. It's almost Bellsian in its bonkersness! Ah-hah! Found it :- http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...philip%201.pdf [http://tinyurl.com/gpe9jlt] It actually seems to be more than one cunning plan and still serving the DC line to Watford rather than how I remembered it but still with trains to/from London getting no further than Wembley. |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:19:53 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:22:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:44:18 +0000, Basil Jet wrote: On 2016\01\14 13:17, Recliner wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:08:41 +0000, e27002 aurora wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 00:14:35 +0000, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote: In message , Anna Noyd-Dryver writes Hammersmith is no longer a depot as such. It's just a stabling point. We have to take trains from Ealing Common to Edgware Road for H&C services now. Thanks Steve, I've been meaning to come back to this post - apparently only 6 S7s stable at Hammersmith overnight now. Really? I didn't realise it was that few now as the other stabling points haven't changed much. Last time I was at HMD (for training) there were quite a few trains about and space for, I would guess maybe 20 to 25 in total. HMD was very much a C stock depot and once they went everything was focused at Ealing Common and Upminster (and a couple at Neasden) which both now provide H&C trains for service. So, Anna's point seems to have more, and more merit. Unfortunately it is too late now. The 14tph will remain as terminators. But at OOC when it opens, which will be more useful than Paddington. Yeah, but will OOC need 24tph? Would 12 not have been enough, with the other twelve (or fewer) going to Hammersmith? At one point there was talk of sending some Crossrail trains to Tring. That seems to have been quietly set aside. IMHO Sending some Crossrail trains to Tring and returning the Bakerloo to Watford would be excellent. Euston's main emphasis should be on InterCity travel. The Tring proposal seems to have receded because the Euston rebuilding for HS2 is now planned to be in phases, so platforms for the Tring services will remain available throughout. No-one is prepared to fund it given that the need has faded. With the Met headed for Watford Junction with a 6 tph service, there would be neither the space not the need for the Bakerloo to return there. According to one of the cunning plans circulated a couple of years ago it wouldn't have got past Wembley Central because the DC line would have been taken over by CrossRail. The only cunning plan for Crossrail that I've heard of on that route was for it to share the slow line to Tring, not take over the DC line. Everyone has known, seemingly forever, that the Met would be going to the Junction, and now it finally is, so what would Crossrail do at Watford? And how would Crossrail get to Wembley, if not on the slow line? A separate pair of tracks coming up the west side of the WCML. IIRC the displaced DC/Bakerloo terminating tracks were to be shoehorned into the "wasteland" south of the station. Why would it then switch to the DC line? To provide an extra pair of tracks for CR/WCML. I suspect the author had failed to look any further north when drawing on his/her fag packet. Another consequence to achieve the plan would probably have been clearing the entire site down to track level (as the walls supporting the Central Square raft would have been partly in the way) and extending westward of the Down DC to gain room for the extended platforms. Ah, I don't recall that 'plan'. It's almost Bellsian in its bonkersness! Ah-hah! Found it :- http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...philip%201.pdf [http://tinyurl.com/gpe9jlt] It actually seems to be more than one cunning plan and still serving the DC line to Watford rather than how I remembered it but still with trains to/from London getting no further than Wembley. No wonder nothing has been heard of it since! |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
On 13.01.16 16:02, Recliner wrote:
wrote: On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:53:50 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:08:43 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: transfer to Vivarail. I suspect you'd be at the front of the queue of the complainers if the D stock was still running around unrefurbished after 35 years of service. As long as a train is reliable I don't really care what the interior decor is like especially if a refurb means yet more strain on the budget and hence potential ticket price rises. Were you under the impression that the refurbishment was just a paint job?? Wow! See these pages to see what was actually done. Most of it was to improve functionality and reliability, as well as some safety features. The paint job was also needed for trains that were looking shabby and graffiti stained after 25 years of service, but it was a small part of the project. http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...rbishment.html I don't see anything (in this admittedly messy site) about the motors or traction control equipment being refurbished. So some wiring was redone and an "information system" was put in. Nothing that was vital for a train about to be ditched less than 10 years later. Here's your list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lond...#Refurbishment The bogies were also replaced, but I think that was a separate project. I don't think they knew the replacement plans when the refurbishment plans were agreed. I miss the D78s' wood floors. |
By London's Northern Line to Battersea
wrote:
On 13.01.16 16:02, Recliner wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:53:50 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:08:43 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: transfer to Vivarail. I suspect you'd be at the front of the queue of the complainers if the D stock was still running around unrefurbished after 35 years of service. As long as a train is reliable I don't really care what the interior decor is like especially if a refurb means yet more strain on the budget and hence potential ticket price rises. Were you under the impression that the refurbishment was just a paint job?? Wow! See these pages to see what was actually done. Most of it was to improve functionality and reliability, as well as some safety features. The paint job was also needed for trains that were looking shabby and graffiti stained after 25 years of service, but it was a small part of the project. http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...rbishment.html I don't see anything (in this admittedly messy site) about the motors or traction control equipment being refurbished. So some wiring was redone and an "information system" was put in. Nothing that was vital for a train about to be ditched less than 10 years later. Here's your list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lond...#Refurbishment The bogies were also replaced, but I think that was a separate project. I don't think they knew the replacement plans when the refurbishment plans were agreed. I miss the D78s' wood floors. Presumably no longer allowed for fire safety reasons? All the old stock had it, but I assume it's gone for good now. |
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