By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 2016\02\26 00:35, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\25 13:11, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today. For example Wimbledon.

There aren't any shared platforms at Wimbledon. Elizabeth Line trains will
share platforms with GWR trains.

Hackney Downs is an Overground-managed station that has Anglia trains in
the peak using the same platforms. There are Overground-coloured
roundels with the station name on all platforms. It's not a problem, any
more than Bakerloo Line trains serving stations with Silverlink signs
was a problem in the old days.

I think people are arguing at cross purposes.
Some people think we are arguing about whether there will be roundels.
Some people think we are arguing about whether the roundels will be purple.

IMO it is a given that there will be purple roundels all over everything
that Crossrail owns or manages, even if GWR or Anglia stop there as
well. We're actually arguing about where, if anywhere, will there be
purple roundels with CROSSRAIL on them and where, if anywhere, will
there be purple roundels with ELIZABETH LINE written on them. I see
little use for the Elizabeth Line roundels - after all, the tube lines
do not AFAIK have their own roundels. I wouldn't be surprised if
yesterday's photo shoot was the last time we will ever see the ELIZABETH
LINE roundel, although the name itself will be widely used, often with
the CROSSRAIL roundel next to it.

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name. So all the
roundels will say Elizabeth Line or the station name if they have any text
at all (some will just be a solid purple). It's true that individual Tube
lines don't have their own roundels, but the Underground, Buses, DLR and
Overground do, and I think the Elizabeth Line will be the same.

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central line"
in your head.

And after CR2 opens, TCR would have "Elizabeth Line", "Charles line" and
"Underground", the last representing both the Central and the
Halfnorthern line, with the first two having different colours. Sorry,
but I'll believe it when I see it. The quality of service and trains on
the two Crossrail lines will be similar, so there is no need for them to
have their own branding until you get inside the station, and no need
for them to have their own roundels either. There is far more need for
the orbital Overground and the radial Overground to have their own
differently coloured roundels visible in the street (not that I am
necessarily advocating that).

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\26 00:35, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\25 13:11, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today. For example Wimbledon.

There aren't any shared platforms at Wimbledon. Elizabeth Line trains will
share platforms with GWR trains.

Hackney Downs is an Overground-managed station that has Anglia trains in
the peak using the same platforms. There are Overground-coloured
roundels with the station name on all platforms. It's not a problem, any
more than Bakerloo Line trains serving stations with Silverlink signs
was a problem in the old days.

I think people are arguing at cross purposes.
Some people think we are arguing about whether there will be roundels.
Some people think we are arguing about whether the roundels will be purple.

IMO it is a given that there will be purple roundels all over everything
that Crossrail owns or manages, even if GWR or Anglia stop there as
well. We're actually arguing about where, if anywhere, will there be
purple roundels with CROSSRAIL on them and where, if anywhere, will
there be purple roundels with ELIZABETH LINE written on them. I see
little use for the Elizabeth Line roundels - after all, the tube lines
do not AFAIK have their own roundels. I wouldn't be surprised if
yesterday's photo shoot was the last time we will ever see the ELIZABETH
LINE roundel, although the name itself will be widely used, often with
the CROSSRAIL roundel next to it.

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name. So all the
roundels will say Elizabeth Line or the station name if they have any text
at all (some will just be a solid purple). It's true that individual Tube
lines don't have their own roundels, but the Underground, Buses, DLR and
Overground do, and I think the Elizabeth Line will be the same.

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central line"
in your head.

And after CR2 opens, TCR would have "Elizabeth Line", "Charles line" and
"Underground", the last representing both the Central and the
Halfnorthern line, with the first two having different colours. Sorry,
but I'll believe it when I see it. The quality of service and trains on
the two Crossrail lines will be similar, so there is no need for them to
have their own branding until you get inside the station, and no need
for them to have their own roundels either. There is far more need for
the orbital Overground and the radial Overground to have their own
differently coloured roundels visible in the street (not that I am
necessarily advocating that).

I'm not disagreeing with your scepticism, just saying what I think the
announcement means. Personally, I'd have rather kept the Crossrail name,
but it looks like Elizabeth Line is a direct replacement for it. Remember
that it will have several different services, so in that sense, it's a bit
like the Overground (or of course the Central line).

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:51:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today.

Marked in the style of the managing TOC/organisation IIRC thus e.g. LU
roundels on DC line stations that never see an Underground train.

For example Wimbledon.

South West Trains on that basis which seems to be confirmed by the
photographs in the NR information pages. I can't see anything
obviously "bar and circle" on platforms 1-4 (apart from the 4" or so
badges on other signs) but the images aren't ideally positioned to
show any Underground station name signs if they were in the usual
position.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 04:00:47 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:51:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today.

Marked in the style of the managing TOC/organisation IIRC thus e.g. LU
roundels on DC line stations that never see an Underground train.

That might require re-checking for the stations north of Harrow and
Wealdstone (which I won't passing through any time in the near future)
which are managed by LO but ISTR some had roundels of questionable
colour. A quick Googling of images for Harrow and Wealdstone station
suggests that the platforms have no obvious "house style" at all but
this could be because the station is all/mostly grade II listed.

For example Wimbledon.

South West Trains on that basis which seems to be confirmed by the
photographs in the NR information pages. I can't see anything
obviously "bar and circle" on platforms 1-4 (apart from the 4" or so
badges on other signs) but the images aren't ideally positioned to
show any Underground station name signs if they were in the usual
position.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 26/02/2016 00:35, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\25 13:11, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:46:31 on
Thu, 25 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

Surely the roundel will also be used on platforms used exclusively by
Elizabeth Line trains. Quite what will be used on parts of the route
still used by TOC's trains I do not know? Maybe they will have TOC
Name boards, or TfL Roundels, or both.

What happens at shared stations today. For example Wimbledon.

There aren't any shared platforms at Wimbledon. Elizabeth Line trains will
share platforms with GWR trains.

Hackney Downs is an Overground-managed station that has Anglia trains in
the peak using the same platforms. There are Overground-coloured
roundels with the station name on all platforms. It's not a problem, any
more than Bakerloo Line trains serving stations with Silverlink signs
was a problem in the old days.

I think people are arguing at cross purposes.
Some people think we are arguing about whether there will be roundels.
Some people think we are arguing about whether the roundels will be purple.

IMO it is a given that there will be purple roundels all over everything
that Crossrail owns or manages, even if GWR or Anglia stop there as
well. We're actually arguing about where, if anywhere, will there be
purple roundels with CROSSRAIL on them and where, if anywhere, will
there be purple roundels with ELIZABETH LINE written on them. I see
little use for the Elizabeth Line roundels - after all, the tube lines
do not AFAIK have their own roundels. I wouldn't be surprised if
yesterday's photo shoot was the last time we will ever see the ELIZABETH
LINE roundel, although the name itself will be widely used, often with
the CROSSRAIL roundel next to it.

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name.

It is what it was called in the London Rail Plan in 1972.



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

* Rather than District Line.
--
Roland Perry

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 26/02/2016 08:16, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

The main facade has the indecisive arrow and a generic Underground roundel


* Rather than District Line.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

BR arrows and Underground.


* Rather than District Line.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 01:03:21 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\02\26 00:35, Recliner wrote:

My understanding is that the Crossrail name will not be used for the
finished product; it was, in effect, a development code name. So all the
roundels will say Elizabeth Line or the station name if they have any text
at all (some will just be a solid purple). It's true that individual Tube
lines don't have their own roundels, but the Underground, Buses, DLR and
Overground do, and I think the Elizabeth Line will be the same.

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central line"
in your head.

And after CR2 opens, TCR would have "Elizabeth Line", "Charles line" and
"Underground", the last representing both the Central and the
Halfnorthern line, with the first two having different colours. Sorry,
but I'll believe it when I see it. The quality of service and trains on
the two Crossrail lines will be similar, so there is no need for them to
have their own branding until you get inside the station, and no need
for them to have their own roundels either. There is far more need for
the orbital Overground and the radial Overground to have their own
differently coloured roundels visible in the street (not that I am
necessarily advocating that).

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

IMHO George VI would be an excellent name choice for the next
Crossrail. Charles is an unknown quantity as far as his reign goes.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:17:57 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-02-26 09:04:46 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

But Overground, like Crossrail, *is* an S-Bahn, RER or whatever you
call it. To me, Crossrail should have used the orange roundel, not had
a new one.

The Overground WAS a local, largely, orbital network for Londoners.
That of course has gone to pot with the latest takeovers of the
suburban network.

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

In message , at 09:04:46 on
Fri, 26 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color.

It was half purple back in 2013:

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...s-its-roundel/
--
Roland Perry

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:04:46 on
Fri, 26 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color.

It was half purple back in 2013:

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...s-its-roundel/

The name change hasn't changed the colours. The 2013 roundel is exactly the
same s the new one, apart from the name change. The bar is always blue in
the roundel.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 2016\02\26 09:56, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:04:46 on
Fri, 26 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color.

It was half purple back in 2013:

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...s-its-roundel/

The name change hasn't changed the colours. The 2013 roundel is exactly the
same s the new one, apart from the name change. The bar is always blue in
the roundel.


.... unless it's the Buses roundel.

https://sheilapontis.files.wordpress...l_roundels.jpg

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\26 09:56, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:04:46 on
Fri, 26 Feb 2016, e27002 aurora remarked:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color.

It was half purple back in 2013:

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...s-its-roundel/

The name change hasn't changed the colours. The 2013 roundel is exactly the
same s the new one, apart from the name change. The bar is always blue in
the roundel.


... unless it's the Buses roundel.

https://sheilapontis.files.wordpress...l_roundels.jpg

True, perhaps to distinguish itself from the Underground version, which has
more or less the same red ring?

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 26/02/2016 09:43, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:17:57 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-02-26 09:04:46 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

But Overground, like Crossrail, *is* an S-Bahn, RER or whatever you
call it. To me, Crossrail should have used the orange roundel, not had
a new one.

The Overground WAS a local, largely, orbital network for Londoners.
That of course has gone to pot with the latest takeovers of the
suburban network.

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.


Which garden cities are those?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 26/02/2016 09:43, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:17:57 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-02-26 09:04:46 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

But Overground, like Crossrail, *is* an S-Bahn, RER or whatever you
call it. To me, Crossrail should have used the orange roundel, not had
a new one.

The Overground WAS a local, largely, orbital network for Londoners.
That of course has gone to pot with the latest takeovers of the
suburban network.

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.


Which garden cities are those?

Slough :-)

tim

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 2016\02\26 11:39, tim... wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 26/02/2016 09:43, e27002 aurora wrote:

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.

Which garden cities are those?

Slough :-)

That's more of a torture garden city.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 26/02/2016 11:39, tim... wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 26/02/2016 09:43, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:17:57 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-02-26 09:04:46 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

But Overground, like Crossrail, *is* an S-Bahn, RER or whatever you
call it. To me, Crossrail should have used the orange roundel, not had
a new one.

The Overground WAS a local, largely, orbital network for Londoners.
That of course has gone to pot with the latest takeovers of the
suburban network.

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.


Which garden cities are those?

Slough :-)



Come, friendly bombs…



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote:

On 26/02/2016 08:16, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

The main facade has the indecisive arrow and a generic Underground roundel

I was going to say I thought it was different from that, but it turns
out that was Kensal Green.

http://now-here-this.timeout.com/201...ay-underground
-overground-wombling-free/

Sam

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:32:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

BR

koffNR/koff

arrows and Underground.

It is not a TfL property thus not guaranteed to match TfL's rules.
Richmond station isn't either but it has got a totem outside which
from top to bottom shows - double arrow, Overground, Underground,
station name; IIRC the last item is also non-conforming to TfL style.

LU itself doesn't seem to get it right every time - the double arrow
has disappeared from the south side of Harrow Met. station**; it looks
like the big window (which had sections missing where the LNER and
later the BR badges fitted in) has been replaced at some time with
more modern materials. The "repro" totem out on Lowlands Road is
similarly devoid (if they were doing the job properly it should have
an LNER symbol below) but the totem in College Road is conforming with
an Underground roundel over the double arrows.

**Older view :-
http://www.urban75.net/forums/thread....208665/page-5
(The LNER's successors' signs were similarly positioned)


* Rather than District Line.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:43:13 +0000, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:17:57 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-02-26 09:04:46 +0000, e27002 aurora said:

One suspects that purple is the new Crossrail Color. Red for
Underground, orange for Overground and purple for London's RER.

But Overground, like Crossrail, *is* an S-Bahn, RER or whatever you
call it. To me, Crossrail should have used the orange roundel, not had
a new one.

The Overground WAS a local, largely, orbital network for Londoners.

One radial and one circumferential route available to anyone with the
right ticket.

That of course has gone to pot with the latest takeovers of the
suburban network.

Crossrails reach from London's core to the market towns and garden
cities in neighboring counties.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 27/02/2016 03:22, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:32:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

BR

koffNR/koff

Nope deliberately BR, NR appropriated it later.


arrows and Underground.



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:30:01 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 27/02/2016 03:22, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:32:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

BR

koffNR/koff

Nope deliberately BR, NR appropriated it later.

It _was_ BR, it _now_ indicates NR services as per the question posed.
If the signs on the front of Wimbledon station are the same age as the
station name then the font of the latter suggests they are post-BR.

Unless one has gone up since the Googlewagen passed last October,
there is no totem at the front of Wimbledon station thus no indication
in that style for Tramlink. None of the images thrown up by Google
(except for some from Southern Railway days) seem to go as far back as
NSE due to the lack of R+W+B elements.


arrows and Underground.

By London's Northern Line to Battersea
 

On 27/02/2016 22:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:30:01 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 27/02/2016 03:22, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:32:49 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:03:21 on Fri, 26 Feb
2016, Basil Jet remarked:

So outside Stratford there would be three roundels - "Underground",
"Overground" and "Elizabeth line". That would be weird - it instantly
puts the question "Why doesn't the Underground roundel say Central
line" in your head.

You forgot the Jubilee Line, DLR and Abellio GA.

What roundels are outside Wimbledon, which has Underground*, Tramlink,
and National Rail (genuine question).

BR

koffNR/koff

Nope deliberately BR, NR appropriated it later.

It _was_ BR, it _now_ indicates NR services as per the question posed.

Yes I now, Recliner snipped my derogatory epithet which was applied to
the original logo :-)



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.