The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

Hi all,

[I'm writing this in the hope that we are all still alive by the time Demon
gets its news server working again.]

I was in Pentavia Retail Park yesterday, which is on the n/b carriageway of
the Watford Way just south of the bridge over Bunns Lane. I wondered why a
place that size didn't have some sort of road bridge or tunnel to and from
the s/b carriageway. I surmised that the inevitable disruption to the
Watford Way during the construction period wasn't worth it.

Subsequently I was gobsmacked to discover that the abandoned slip from the
M1 to the A41, unused since the M1 ceased terminatiing here in the 1970s
(?), is still there in its entirety. It crosses beneath the Watford Way
immediately south of Bunns Lane and immediately north of the Pentavia Retail
Park. At the A41 end the junction is merely blocked by some concrete slabs
sat on the tarmac. The road surface is in ill-repair, and made me think of
the XTC lyric "The grass is always greener when it bursts up through
concrete".

Since the slip is wide enough for two lanes of traffic, especially where it
goes under Watford Way, there is no obvious reason why it could not have
become Pentavia's access to and from the s/b Watford Way, at minimal cost
and with zero disruption to the Watford Way. The only thing I can think of
is that they are preserving the slip road intact for some reason. That would
explain why the junction with the Watford Way has not been "plainlined" even
though the Watford Way must have had its surface replaced once or twice
since the 1970s. The slip road is too big a piece of land to lie unused in
this expensive part of London without a reason. Has it seen any use since
the M1 was extended?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:57:52 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Subsequently I was gobsmacked to discover that the abandoned slip from the
M1 to the A41, unused since the M1 ceased terminatiing here in the 1970s
(?), is still there in its entirety.

See this page for more on the subject :
http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/pix.../m1_oldj2.html

Sam
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Sam Holloway" wrote in message
...

See this page for more on the subject :
http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/pix.../m1_oldj2.html

Thanks. The 1993 incident sort of explains why it is being kept intact,
although I don't see why it could not have been used as access from the
retail park as well.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Sam Holloway" wrote in message
...

See this page for more on the subject :
http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/pix.../m1_oldj2.html

Thanks. The 1993 incident sort of explains why it is being kept intact,
although I don't see why it could not have been used as access from the
retail park as well.

I hadn't realised until I compared the more recent maps with a 1963 OS map
(from the time when the M1 finished at Aldenham) that the southbound slip
road is on the site of the now-disused railway line from Mill Hill East to
Edgware.

I'm not sure that I agree with the OP that the slip road would be wide
enough for two lanes of traffic. Interesting that the junction was
constructed with single-lane slip roads leading from a (presumably) 3-lane
M1 to a (presumably) 2-lane A1, rather than making the slip roads 2-lane as
you'd get at any motorway junction nowdays.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

Martin Underwood wrote:

Interesting that the junction was
constructed with single-lane slip roads leading from a (presumably)
3-lane M1 to a (presumably) 2-lane A1, rather than making the slip
roads 2-lane as you'd get at any motorway junction nowdays.

But it wasn't built "nowadays". It was built at a time when the amount of
traffic on the road, and especially the amount of long distance traffic, was
so much less than now that a time traveller going back would think all
drivers were having a non-driving protest day of some sort.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
... Interesting that the junction was
constructed with single-lane slip roads leading from a (presumably) 3-lane
M1 to a (presumably) 2-lane A1, rather than making the slip roads 2-lane
as
you'd get at any motorway junction nowdays.

South of the M10, the M1 used to be two-lane. In those days, most of the
traffic used the M10 for access and it was possible (although unusual enough
for me to remember it happening) to drive from London to Luton without
seeing another vehicle travelling in the same direction.

Colin Bignell

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
this expensive part of London without a reason. Has it seen any use since
the M1 was extended?

Yes. I used to climb through the fence from the nearby local road and cycle
along there when I was a kid. It was great fun having a whole 2 lane half
mile long piece of tarmac to yourself :) It was overgrown when I was last
there about 18 years ago so god knows what state its in now.

B2003

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
Martin Underwood wrote:

Interesting that the junction was
constructed with single-lane slip roads leading from a (presumably)
3-lane M1 to a (presumably) 2-lane A1, rather than making the slip
roads 2-lane as you'd get at any motorway junction nowdays.

But it wasn't built "nowadays". It was built at a time when the amount of
traffic on the road, and especially the amount of long distance traffic,
was
so much less than now that a time traveller going back would think all
drivers were having a non-driving protest day of some sort.

Yes, but it was the point at which all the traffic coming south would have
come off the M1 (assuming it hadn't come off at previous junctions, of
course!) and I'm surprised that a single lane was judged to be sufficient
even in the mid 60s, especially since it would have only taken one
broken-down vehicle to close the exit entirely.

Other slip roads on the M1 are all 2-lane - or have they been widened since
they were originally built?

I'll have to ask my dad: in the late 60s and early 70s he was regularly
commuting from Leeds to West London each week, which must have been a
nightmare before the Leeds-Sheffield bit was built. The article doesn't give
any indication when that was built, except that it was some time after the
M1 opened. I can remember the extension from Stourton (south Leeds) to
central Leeds being built - probably early 70s.

I hadn't realised that the extension south to Staples Corner was built as
late as 1977. Whereabouts was the bit further south that was never built?

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"nightjar" wrote in
:

South of the M10, the M1 used to be two-lane.

Only for two junctions, then three lanes again.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Peter Wright" Overground wrote in message
...
"nightjar" wrote in
:

South of the M10, the M1 used to be two-lane.

Only for two junctions, then three lanes again.

When it was built, it only went two junctions south of the M1/M10
interchange.

Colin Bignell

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

In article , John Rowland
writes
The slip road is too big a piece of land to lie unused in
this expensive part of London without a reason. Has it seen any use since
the M1 was extended?

I couldn't tell you when, but it was used at least once when the normal
exit was blocked for overnight maintenance work.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , John Rowland
writes

The slip road is too big a piece of land to lie unused in
this expensive part of London without a reason.
Has it seen any use since the M1 was extended?

I couldn't tell you when, but it was used at least once when
the normal exit was blocked for overnight maintenance work.

Thanks. Its existence can't be crucial, though, because AFAIK the comparable
n/b slip no longer exists, even though if it did exist it could still be
used for n/b traffic when the normal *entrance* was blocked for maintenance
work (obviously the s/b traffic would have to be diverted via the s/b slip
as well). Oh, hang on, do you mean the exit at *Junction 2* was closed?

AFA the southbound slip is concerned, I'm beginning to wonder why it it was
closed at all. It would be very useful for people living in Hendon if it was
reopened permanently and called Junction 3. Either that or build on it, but
at the moment its just a waste of land.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

In message m, Martin
Underwood writes

I hadn't realised that the extension south to Staples Corner was built as
late as 1977. Whereabouts was the bit further south that was never built?

It would have continued to parallel the railway for another couple of
miles south (roughly to West Hampstead) where it would have joined the
infamous North Cross Route:

http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/lon...ans/ncross.jpg
--
Paul Terry

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message m, Martin
Underwood writes

I hadn't realised that the extension south to Staples Corner was built as
late as 1977. Whereabouts was the bit further south that was never built?

It would have continued to parallel the railway for another couple of
miles south (roughly to West Hampstead) where it would have joined the
infamous North Cross Route:

http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/lon...ans/ncross.jpg

Blimey - a sort of inner-London M25! I'd no idea that there were ever plans
for this! It would have made life hell for all the people who live near the
route, wouldn't it? At least the M25 mostly avoids populated areas.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

In message m, Martin
Underwood writes

Blimey - a sort of inner-London M25! I'd no idea that there were ever plans
for this!

The original Abercrombie plan (dating back to the 1940s) was for five
ringways. The innermost was Ringway A and roughly on the alignment of
the current inner ring road.

Then came Ringway B, slicing through Kilburn, Hampstead and Islington in
the north, Kensington and Chelsea in the west, crossing the river to
Battersea. It would then have demolished large parts of inner south
London, gone through the Blackwall tunnel and eventually have joined up
with the northern part to form what later became known as the "Motorway
Box". A few parts of this were actually built and still had motorway
numbering until 2000 (e.g. the tiny bit of west-cross route down to
Shepherds Bush, and both approaches to the Blackwall tunnel).

Ringway C was to roughly follow the alignment of the North Circular to
the north of London, and the South Circular as far as Putney. (When I
moved to Sheen in 1976 there were still occasional reserved plots beside
the South Circular for its expansion). After Putney it would have
careered through Wimbledon and other places south of the S.Circular,
eventually crossing the river at Thamesmead before wreaking havoc on
West Ham and eventually joining up with the N. Circular part.

Ringway D was to be mainly just inside the current route of the M25,
while Ringway E was to be a little further out (I think the North
Orbital Road is a remnant of the latter).

The GLC revived the Abercrombie scheme in 1960s. It was found to be
totally uneconomic as well as totally unacceptable, and so the proposals
for routes A and C were abandoned, and routes D and E were combined (the
latter eventually becoming the M25). This just left route B, the
motorway box, which was eventually abandoned in 1973, after some bits
had already been started.

It would have made life hell for all the people who live near the
route, wouldn't it?

And it would have meant rehousing tens of thousands of people. The plan
was not only unaffordable but it was also the cause of the "homes before
roads" protests of the early 70s, which I remember well since I was
living close to the west-cross route in Kensington at the time. It was
also the cause of much planning blight for some years in areas around
the route.

Since few areas of London would have been spared colossal demolition
work and dislocation, most GLC councillors started to get very worried
about the vociferous feedback they were receiving from their
constituents, and so abandonment of the proposals eventually became
inevitable.
--
Paul Terry

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:17:09 +0000, Paul Terry wrote:

In message m, Martin
Underwood writes

Blimey - a sort of inner-London M25! I'd no idea that there were ever plans
for this!

The original Abercrombie plan (dating back to the 1940s) was for five
ringways. The innermost was Ringway A and roughly on the alignment of
the current inner ring road.

Tim Moore's book "Don't Stop at Go" (the one where he does the Monopoly
board around London) has got a lot to say about this plan, IIRC.

There was supposed to be a big roundabout around Centre Point too.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
I couldn't tell you when, but it was used at least once when
the normal exit was blocked for overnight maintenance work.

Thanks. Its existence can't be crucial, though, because AFAIK the comparable
n/b slip no longer exists, even though if it did exist it could still be
used for n/b traffic when the normal *entrance* was blocked for maintenance
work (obviously the s/b traffic would have to be diverted via the s/b slip
as well). Oh, hang on, do you mean the exit at *Junction 2* was closed?

The exit at Junction 2 was closed for a good while (several months)
around 1996-7, but the slip wasn't opened for that. Never worked out
why.

AFA the southbound slip is concerned, I'm beginning to wonder why it it was
closed at all. It would be very useful for people living in Hendon if it was
reopened permanently and called Junction 3. Either that or build on it, but
at the moment its just a waste of land.

True. When I worked in Colindale it was a right pain trekking far
enough east to be able to hit the A1 northbound and get onto the M1.
Often the best way was to take the A1 southbound and find a place to
make a U-turn.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Alistair Bell" wrote in message
om...
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

AFA the southbound slip is concerned, I'm beginning
to wonder why it it was closed at all. It would be very
useful for people living in Hendon if it was reopened
permanently and called Junction 3. Either that or build
on it, but at the moment its just a waste of land.

True. When I worked in Colindale it was a right pain
trekking far enough east to be able to hit the A1
northbound and get onto the M1. Often the best way
was to take the A1 southbound and find a place to
make a U-turn.

There aren't any places to make U-turns until the Holders Hill Road
junction. Your best route from Colindale would have been Aerodrome Road -
Greyhound Hill - Church End - Church Road - Sunny Gardens Road - A1 - M1.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:04:45 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:


There aren't any places to make U-turns until the Holders Hill Road
junction. Your best route from Colindale would have been Aerodrome Road -
Greyhound Hill - Church End - Church Road - Sunny Gardens Road - A1 - M1.

Mornington Crescent.

The abandoned M1 slip north of Junction 2
 

"Richard Buttrey" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:04:45 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:


There aren't any places to make U-turns until the Holders Hill Road
junction. Your best route from Colindale would have been Aerodrome Road -
Greyhound Hill - Church End - Church Road - Sunny Gardens Road - A1 - M1.

Mornington Crescent.

lol

audience cheers