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The 455 route
Gor blimey. I made a massive mistake. I was at the Purley Tesco, at about 3pm, and I wanted to go to Tooting. But I just missed a 127, by about 30 seconds.
The next 127 was in 29 minutes but a different bus arrived in 1 minute, a 455 to Wallington. I thought that I could take that and possible catch up with the 127, or get another bus. But the 455 went everywhere. South Croydon, East Croydon and West Croydon AND then back to Purley where we had started from. Luckily, the mad bus stopped at Waddon Marsh and I leapt off and got the Tram. What a relief! |
Quote:
numerous bus routes that go all round the houses, often along residential streets that are quite unsuitable for large vehicles, and waste passengers' time. Gone are the days when you could judge by the destination board if a bus was appropriate for your journey. |
The 455 route
On 2016\01\29 19:53, Offramp wrote:
Gor blimey. I made a massive mistake. I was at the Purley Tesco, at about 3pm, and I wanted to go to Tooting. But I just missed a 127, by about 30 seconds. The next 127 was in 29 minutes but a different bus arrived in 1 minute, a 455 to Wallington. I thought that I could take that and possible catch up with the 127, or get another bus. But the 455 went everywhere. South Croydon, East Croydon and West Croydon AND then back to Purley where we had started from. Luckily, the mad bus stopped at Waddon Marsh and I leapt off and got the Tram. What a relief! https://tfl.gov.uk/bus/route/455/?direction=outbound |
The 455 route
Robin9 wrote:
Offramp;153677 Wrote: Gor blimey. I made a massive mistake. I was at the Purley Tesco, at about 3pm, and I wanted to go to Tooting. But I just missed a 127, by about 30 seconds. The next 127 was in 29 minutes but a different bus arrived in 1 minute, a 455 to Wallington. I thought that I could take that and possible catch up with the 127, or get another bus. But the 455 went everywhere. South Croydon, East Croydon and West Croydon AND then back to Purley where we had started from. Luckily, the mad bus stopped at Waddon Marsh and I leapt off and got the Tram. What a relief! Since London has been afflicted with a Mayor and TfL, there are numerous bus routes that go all round the houses, often along residential streets that are quite unsuitable for large vehicles, and waste passengers' time. Gone are the days when you could judge by the destination board if a bus was appropriate for your journey. This route predates the Mayor and had the odd route sine 88. Croydon has several routes that nearly loop as they cover one old route into Croydon and another out e.g. 466, 407 -- Mark |
The 455 route
Robin9 wrote on 30 Jan 2016 at
10:50 ... Offramp;153677 Wrote: Gor blimey. I made a massive mistake. I was at the Purley Tesco, at about 3pm, and I wanted to go to Tooting. But I just missed a 127, by about 30 seconds. The next 127 was in 29 minutes but a different bus arrived in 1 minute, a 455 to Wallington. I thought that I could take that and possible catch up with the 127, or get another bus. But the 455 went everywhere. South Croydon, East Croydon and West Croydon AND then back to Purley where we had started from. Luckily, the mad bus stopped at Waddon Marsh and I leapt off and got the Tram. What a relief! Since London has been afflicted with a Mayor and TfL, there are numerous bus routes that go all round the houses, often along residential streets that are quite unsuitable for large vehicles, and waste passengers' time. The bus routes go round the houses because that's where people live, thus providing a bus service to thousands of people who would have found it difficult or impossible to reach one of the old routes, or who would have had to use their cars and helped to clog up the streets. This seems to me to be a worthwhile improvement. Gone are the days when you could judge by the destination board if a bus was appropriate for your journey. That was because there was often only one route in that general direction. Isn't it nice to have a more comprehensive service? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
The 455 route
Paul Corfield wrote:
Some are on narrowish roads but many are not and the only issue would be stop locations where people have drives in front of their homes. That "only" rathers assumes that individuals should accept without complaint the costs to them of providing a social good. I lived near a bus stop many years ago. The effects extend way beyond access to drives. The noise (both from passengers and from buses stopping/starting), litter, damage to fences, and general low-level anti-social behaviour can be significant. (And that was in days when teenagers rarely knifed people who objected to their criminal damage.) TfL may aim to minimise the effects but "not by my front yard" is understandable. -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
The 455 route
In message , at 09:49:18 on Sun, 31 Jan
2016, Robin remarked: Some are on narrowish roads but many are not and the only issue would be stop locations where people have drives in front of their homes. The hazard of having a driveway blocked briefly because a bus has stopped there seems pretty minimal. t "only" rathers assumes that individuals should accept without complaint the costs to them of providing a social good. I lived near a bus stop many years ago. The effects extend way beyond access to drives. The noise (both from passengers and from buses stopping/starting), litter, damage to fences, and general low-level anti-social behaviour can be significant. (And that was in days when teenagers rarely knifed people who objected to their criminal damage.) TfL may aim to minimise the effects but "not by my front yard" is understandable. But yes, I've lived near bus stops and it's commonplace for passengers to use the nearest front garden as a litter bin. -- Roland Perry |
I believe you're a Walthamstow resident. I used to know a
few families who lived in Upper Walthamstow. They were not pleased when bus routes were extended via Fyfield Road to Bisterne Avenue. They did tell me that cars had been damaged, and that, when going over speedhumps, buses cause houses to vibrate. They also said they wished the buses had not been routed through their neighbourhood and that they never used them. This last assertion is supported by empirical evidence: the buses are more or less empty in Upper Walthamstow. I also know very slightly a man who trained to be a bus driver and who worked that route. He told me it was a nightmare trying to make progress along Fyfield Road - he didn't need to tell me: I can see for myself every time I drive around there - and he gave up after a few weeks. The Upper Walthamstow scenario typifies the reality of these routes through residential streets. 1) Previously there had been no widespread clamour for bus routes to come through Upper Walthamstow. People walked to either Wood Street or Forest Road or hired a minicab, and the vast majority of local residents thought there was nothing unreasonable about the situation. 2) Bus evangelists decided buses should travel these narrow roads. The decision was not made in response to public demand but was made without regard for the impact the buses would have on the area. 3) Now there are traffic jams in Fyfield Road and, inevitably, an increase in air pollution. 4) Bus evangelists and their supporters pretend that they have liberated people who were imprisoned in their homes, happily ignoring the fact that no-one had been imprisoned, no-one had complained about being imprisoned and that local people had gone about their business with no great difficulty. 5) The quality of life for the majority has deteriorated, not become better. They now have to contend with traffic jams, vehicle fumes and vibration. TfL and the bus fanatics do not care at all about these adverse consequence. |
The 455 route
On 29.01.16 19:53, Offramp wrote:
Gor blimey. I made a massive mistake. I was at the Purley Tesco, at about 3pm, and I wanted to go to Tooting. But I just missed a 127, by about 30 seconds. The next 127 was in 29 minutes but a different bus arrived in 1 minute, a 455 to Wallington. I thought that I could take that and possible catch up with the 127, or get another bus. But the 455 went everywhere. South Croydon, East Croydon and West Croydon AND then back to Purley where we had started from. Luckily, the mad bus stopped at Waddon Marsh and I leapt off and got the Tram. What a relief! The 242 is a shining example of that, IMHO. |
The 455 route
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:29:06 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: Some are on narrowish roads but many are not and the only issue would be stop locations where people have drives in front of their homes. A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? -- John Ray |
The 455 route
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:06:32 +0000, John Ray wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:29:06 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote: Some are on narrowish roads but many are not and the only issue would be stop locations where people have drives in front of their homes. A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? There are lots of Hail & Ride sections around. They are shown in red on the quadrant maps, for example http://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-...on-bus-map.pdf |
The 455 route
On 2016\01\31 14:06, John Ray wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:29:06 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote: Some are on narrowish roads but many are not and the only issue would be stop locations where people have drives in front of their homes. A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? The W9 is still mostly hail and ride and has been since 1972. |
The 455 route
John Ray wrote:
A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? IIRC mainly in industrial areas where workers would use buses mainly at start/end of shifts so very "peaky" demands at different points. Still in place on some routes[1] but there ain't so many such areas left in London and TfL have cut back - sometimes arguing it's getting harder for drivers to stop safely when hailed. On at least one route I know it also used to confuse mightily some workers to whom the concept (and signage) was alien. [1] https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1760&bih=935&q=site%3Atfl.gov.uk+"hail+ and+ride"&oq=site%3Atfl.gov.uk+"hail+and+ride" -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
The 455 route
On 2016\01\31 15:09, Robin wrote:
John Ray wrote: A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? IIRC mainly in industrial areas where workers would use buses mainly at start/end of shifts so very "peaky" demands at different points. Still in place on some routes[1] but there ain't so many such areas left in London and TfL have cut back - sometimes arguing it's getting harder for drivers to stop safely when hailed. On at least one route I know it also used to confuse mightily some workers to whom the concept (and signage) was alien. [1] https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1760&bih=935&q=site%3Atfl.gov.uk+"hail+ and+ride"&oq=site%3Atfl.gov.uk+"hail+and+ride" In the quadrant bus map of NW London, all hail and ride sections are residential except Lincoln Road (which is industrial along one half), Colindeep Lane (which alternates commercial and residential along its length) and Harvil Road (which is residential for rabbits and squirrels). |
The 455 route
Basil Jet wrote:
In the quadrant bus map of NW London, all hail and ride sections are residential except Lincoln Road (which is industrial along one half), Colindeep Lane (which alternates commercial and residential along its length) and Harvil Road (which is residential for rabbits and squirrels). Apologies for bias in my use/memories. I had in mind eg the stretch of the 488 along Wick Lane and Wansbeck Road (when it was the S2); the 192 North of Ikea; and whatever it was I think I used to use at Blackwall before it was cleaned up (but perhaps someone will be along who knows where there's a record of what used to be H&R). -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
The 455 route
On 2016\01\31 16:17, Robin wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: In the quadrant bus map of NW London, all hail and ride sections are residential except Lincoln Road (which is industrial along one half), Colindeep Lane (which alternates commercial and residential along its length) and Harvil Road (which is residential for rabbits and squirrels). Apologies for bias in my use/memories. I had in mind eg the stretch of the 488 along Wick Lane and Wansbeck Road (when it was the S2); the 192 North of Ikea; and whatever it was I think I used to use at Blackwall before it was cleaned up (but perhaps someone will be along who knows where there's a record of what used to be H&R). Montagu Road is slightly commercial but overwhelmingly residential. Are you sure you're not confusing Montagu Road and Meridian Way? Adding to my original list, Clay Hill is mostly garden centres. |
The 455 route
Basil Jet wrote:
Montagu Road is slightly commercial but overwhelmingly residential. Are you sure you're not confusing Montagu Road and Meridian Way? I suspect it was more my memory conflating Conduit Lane with the non-H&R Watermead Way to the South Adding to my original list, Clay Hill is mostly garden centres. And as further proof that I was wrong, I see the H3 is H&R along The Bishops Avenue - about as far away from industrial as one can get. Perhaps I dreamt how many have H&R services have gone from former industrial areas. -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
The 455 route
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:33:59 +0100, Robin9
wrote: I believe you're a Walthamstow resident. I used to know a few families who lived in Upper Walthamstow. They were not pleased when bus routes were extended via Fyfield Road to Bisterne Avenue. They did tell me that cars had been damaged, and that, when going over speedhumps, buses cause houses to vibrate. They also said they wished the buses had not been routed through their neighbourhood and that they never used them. This last assertion is supported by empirical evidence: the buses are more or less empty in Upper Walthamstow. I also know very slightly a man who trained to be a bus driver and who worked that route. He told me it was a nightmare trying to make progress along Fyfield Road - he didn't need to tell me: I can see for myself every time I drive around there - and he gave up after a few weeks. The Upper Walthamstow scenario typifies the reality of these routes through residential streets. 1) Previously there had been no widespread clamour for bus routes to come through Upper Walthamstow. People walked to either Wood Street or Forest Road or hired a minicab, and the vast majority of local residents thought there was nothing unreasonable about the situation. 2) Bus evangelists decided buses should travel these narrow roads. The decision was not made in response to public demand but was made without regard for the impact the buses would have on the area. 3) Now there are traffic jams in Fyfield Road and, inevitably, an increase in air pollution. 4) Bus evangelists and their supporters pretend that they have liberated people who were imprisoned in their homes, happily ignoring the fact that no-one had been imprisoned, no-one had complained about being imprisoned and that local people had gone about their business with no great difficulty. 5) The quality of life for the majority has deteriorated, not become better. They now have to contend with traffic jams, vehicle fumes and vibration. TfL and the bus fanatics do not care at all about these adverse consequence. Brings back memories, my best friend used to live at 109 Fyfield., Back then, (steam trains & trolleybuses), it would have been very surprising to have a bus route in the area. We used to walk to Wood Street Station &/or Forest Road for trains & buses, even to Snaresbrook Station to access the Underground. Has there been a major bus riding population increase there, it wasn't high density housing back then apart from a few council flats, Maybe all the nearby "posh" houses have been replaced by high-rise tower-blocks, but that's not in keeping with the Upper Walthamstow that i used to know. I'd like to live inside the London area again, if only to benefit from the wonderful free public transport provided to us old people. Unfortunately it's cheaper to live out in the Essex boondocks, buy the occaisional travelcard, & suffer the 2-hourly bus service in the wrong direction on Sundays. Londoners don't seem to realize how good their public transport network is, with interavailability ticket across all the operators low fares as well. DC --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
The 455 route
On 31/01/2016 14:06, John Ray wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:29:06 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote: Some are on narrowish roads but many are not and the only issue would be stop locations where people have drives in front of their homes. A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? Parts of the K1 & K2 are hail & ride. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Quote:
does not refer to anyone posting here. It refers to those obsessives who have been on a crusade to extend bus travel without regard to either cost or consequence, generally on the assumption that motorists will see the light and abandon their cars if buses are available everywhere. "The greater good" incorporates judging the needs and wishes of the minority against the needs and wishes of the majority. Sometimes a small minority will have to accept inconvenience. |
The 455 route
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 17:36:54 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:06:32 +0000, John Ray wrote: A few years ago some routes were "hail and ride", i.e. there were sections of route without fixed bus stops, but as far as I am aware these no longer exist. Was this an experiment which was judged to have failed? Still plenty left. I regularly use a route with H&R and catch it / alight from it on the H&R section. All works very well - there are established places where people wait and the drivers know where to stop to let people off. Thank you - I wasn't aware that some still exist. My local H&R route worked very well for me too while it lasted. -- John Ray |
The 455 route
On Sunday, 31 January 2016 18:00:50 UTC, Robin wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: Montagu Road is slightly commercial but overwhelmingly residential. Are you sure you're not confusing Montagu Road and Meridian Way? I suspect it was more my memory conflating Conduit Lane with the non-H&R Watermead Way to the South Adding to my original list, Clay Hill is mostly garden centres. And as further proof that I was wrong, I see the H3 is H&R along The Bishops Avenue - about as far away from industrial as one can get. Perhaps I dreamt how many have H&R services have gone from former industrial areas. -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid That's the other reason for Hail & Ride - residents objecting to the very existence of bus stops in their road. |
The 455 route
On 12/02/2016 16:58, Matthew Dickinson wrote:
That's the other reason for Hail & Ride - residents objecting to the very existence of bus stops in their road. That's fair - having been subjected to an anti-social operator (not TfL, albeit with a London Service Permit) using a bus stop and stand outside my property I can see why people would object. Although saying that I feel a complaint about Rail Replacement services not turning off their engines whilst on stand coming on, although last time I wrote to London Overground it took them 56 days to reply to my message. |
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