On 2016-02-05 01:07:41 +0000, John Levine said:

It probably doesn't. Keep in mind that the goal isn't necessarily to
have £0.00 in lost revenue, it's to get as much net revenue as
possible. The savings in not having to sell and manage zillions of
Oyster cards likely would pay for a fair amount of contactless
shenanigans.

Indeed. The aim is the maximum income to the business. It can for
example be that there is no point pursuing certain lost revenue because
pursuing it is more expensive than the actual revenue. It seems clear
that London Midland have taken this approach for late evening journeys
on the WCML not involving London - there is no attempt at revenue
protection whatsoever. I know a few people who refer to late night
MKC-BLY as "the free train", and in practice they are not wrong (even
though I'm well behaved and pay).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In the worst case, they could just stop accepting prepaid cards other
than Oyster. The prefix of the card number identifies the type of
card.

That'd be a bad move for tourists as many of the cards which are issued
in foreign (to the tourist) currency are prepay Mastercards. Although
they are not ideal for a party travelling together as you require one
each.

The Travelex card (which offers the usual Travelex stupendously bad
exchange rates) is not contactless. Are there tourist prepaid cards
that are?

Also keep in mind that we tourists can and do use our regular cards.
When I was in the UK last year, I used my US issued AmEx card on the
tube and it worked fine, with one charge per day posted on the days I
used it. Dunno how many tourists know about it, but it'd be worth
some posters at the airport tube stations.

In message , at 21:32:14 on Fri, 5 Feb
2016, John Levine remarked:
In the worst case, they could just stop accepting prepaid cards other
than Oyster. The prefix of the card number identifies the type of
card.

That'd be a bad move for tourists as many of the cards which are issued
in foreign (to the tourist) currency are prepay Mastercards. Although
they are not ideal for a party travelling together as you require one
each.

The Travelex card (which offers the usual Travelex stupendously bad
exchange rates) is not contactless. Are there tourist prepaid cards
that are?

I thought the Post Office ones were, but having trouble confirming that.

Also keep in mind that we tourists can and do use our regular cards.
When I was in the UK last year, I used my US issued AmEx card on the
tube and it worked fine, with one charge per day posted on the days I
used it. Dunno how many tourists know about it, but it'd be worth
some posters at the airport tube stations.

--
Roland Perry

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 03:04:51PM +0000, d wrote:

Well unless the RID has a realtime radio link to the main computer I don't
see how else it could be done other than by a reconciliation later.

Mobile data hardware and airtime is dirt cheap these days, so I'd not be
at all surprised to learn that ticket inspectors' hand-held devices can
talk to head office in real time.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

It wouldn't hurt to think like a serial killer every so often.
Purely for purposes of prevention, of course.

On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:48:39 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 03:04:51PM +0000, d wrote:

Well unless the RID has a realtime radio link to the main computer I don't
see how else it could be done other than by a reconciliation later.

Mobile data hardware and airtime is dirt cheap these days, so I'd not be
at all surprised to learn that ticket inspectors' hand-held devices can
talk to head office in real time.

Maybe. Though they seem to work rather quicker than I'd expect if there was
a round trip request via a GSM link. Also I've seen them being used in the
DLR tunnel to Bank where there's no chance of a signal (I assume DLR use the
same system). Quite why they were bothering to do a revenue check just before
one of the few stations on the DLR where you *can't* get out without a ticket
is anyones guess.

--
Spud

On 08/02/2016 16:16, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:48:39 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 03:04:51PM +0000, d wrote:

Well unless the RID has a realtime radio link to the main computer I don't
see how else it could be done other than by a reconciliation later.

Mobile data hardware and airtime is dirt cheap these days, so I'd not be
at all surprised to learn that ticket inspectors' hand-held devices can
talk to head office in real time.

Maybe. Though they seem to work rather quicker than I'd expect if there was
a round trip request via a GSM link. Also I've seen them being used in the
DLR tunnel to Bank where there's no chance of a signal (I assume DLR use the
same system). Quite why they were bothering to do a revenue check just before
one of the few stations on the DLR where you *can't* get out without a ticket
is anyones guess.

--
Spud

Quick trip on the W&C line to Waterloo and you're out and free...

Although you're right - it does seem to happen a fair amount more than
you would expect on that bit.

In message , at 15:48:39
on Mon, 8 Feb 2016, David Cantrell remarked:

Well unless the RID has a realtime radio link to the main computer I don't
see how else it could be done other than by a reconciliation later.

Mobile data hardware and airtime is dirt cheap these days, so I'd not be
at all surprised to learn that ticket inspectors' hand-held devices can
talk to head office in real time.

The problem with that is the lack of coverage, especially in the hostile
tube/sub-surface environment. If you want to be able to do checks in
real time you have to be able to know who touched in (or didn't) at the
station you just left a minute ago.

I was thinking you might manage it, just, if every station had reliable
wifi you can snatch 20 seconds at a time, but even then there will be
times that the data hasn't caught up with the inspectors.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 17:02:10 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 08/02/2016 16:16, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:48:39 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 03:04:51PM +0000, d wrote:

Well unless the RID has a realtime radio link to the main computer I don't
see how else it could be done other than by a reconciliation later.

Mobile data hardware and airtime is dirt cheap these days, so I'd not be
at all surprised to learn that ticket inspectors' hand-held devices can
talk to head office in real time.

Maybe. Though they seem to work rather quicker than I'd expect if there was
a round trip request via a GSM link. Also I've seen them being used in the
DLR tunnel to Bank where there's no chance of a signal (I assume DLR use the
same system). Quite why they were bothering to do a revenue check just before
one of the few stations on the DLR where you *can't* get out without a ticket
is anyones guess.

--
Spud

Quick trip on the W&C line to Waterloo and you're out and free...

Didn't know that. In which case I can understand the logic then

--
Spud

On Mon, Feb 08, 2016 at 04:16:57PM +0000, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:48:39 +0000 David Cantrell wrote:
Mobile data hardware and airtime is dirt cheap these days, so I'd not be
at all surprised to learn that ticket inspectors' hand-held devices can
talk to head office in real time.
Maybe. Though they seem to work rather quicker than I'd expect if there was
a round trip request via a GSM link.

Connection setup is slow, but once it's up sending a few packets back
and forth via GSM (well, more likely to be 3G or 4G these days) is going
to be fast enough. And I expect that the connection would come up once
and stay up until the user stops scanning cards.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

Arbeit macht Alkoholiker