ELL closure
 

I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Aren't they putting in place the new concourse at Whitechapel as part of
the station rebuilding to support Crossrail? That's a fairly major
piece of engineering, which can affect other lines - look at what's
going to happen to Bank in a few years time...

And in any case, it's only really the new bit (plus Whitechapel to
Shadwell) which is shut - you can get under the river for once.

ELL closure
 

On 15/02/2016 13:02, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it
wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and
poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Aren't they putting in place the new concourse at Whitechapel as part of
the station rebuilding to support Crossrail? That's a fairly major
piece of engineering, which can affect other lines - look at what's
going to happen to Bank in a few years time...

And in any case, it's only really the new bit (plus Whitechapel to
Shadwell) which is shut - you can get under the river for once.

There you go - there's even a nice information sheet on it:
http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-
ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.c om/assets/library
/document/c/original/c512-xrl-z-xbu-d061-50180-
whitechapel_station_closures_february_16.pdf

(here's a shortened version of the link http://bit.ly/1QgLyAI )

Available in many different languages should you so choose!

ELL closure
 

On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Is the whole ELL being closed or is it just THAT station (Whitechapel)
that is being closed?

Jim

ELL closure
 

On 2016\02\15 13:09, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 13:02, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it
wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and
poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line
being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Aren't they putting in place the new concourse at Whitechapel as part of
the station rebuilding to support Crossrail? That's a fairly major
piece of engineering, which can affect other lines - look at what's
going to happen to Bank in a few years time...

And in any case, it's only really the new bit (plus Whitechapel to
Shadwell) which is shut - you can get under the river for once.

There you go - there's even a nice information sheet on it:
http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-
ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.c om/assets/library
/document/c/original/c512-xrl-z-xbu-d061-50180-
whitechapel_station_closures_february_16.pdf

(here's a shortened version of the link http://bit.ly/1QgLyAI )

Available in many different languages should you so choose!

I'd be fascinated to know why "Crossrail" is spelled in the Latin
alphabet for Chinese, Greek, Gujurati and Urdu readers, but not for
Arabic, Bengali, Hindi, Punjabi and Tamil readers.

ELL closure
 

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:00:16 +0000
Jim Chisholm wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't
being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Is the whole ELL being closed or is it just THAT station (Whitechapel)
that is being closed?

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On 15/02/2016 14:28, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\15 13:09, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 13:02, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it
wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and
poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line
being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Aren't they putting in place the new concourse at Whitechapel as part of
the station rebuilding to support Crossrail? That's a fairly major
piece of engineering, which can affect other lines - look at what's
going to happen to Bank in a few years time...

And in any case, it's only really the new bit (plus Whitechapel to
Shadwell) which is shut - you can get under the river for once.

There you go - there's even a nice information sheet on it:
http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-
ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.c om/assets/library
/document/c/original/c512-xrl-z-xbu-d061-50180-
whitechapel_station_closures_february_16.pdf

(here's a shortened version of the link http://bit.ly/1QgLyAI )

Available in many different languages should you so choose!

I'd be fascinated to know why "Crossrail" is spelled in the Latin
alphabet for Chinese, Greek, Gujurati and Urdu readers, but not for
Arabic, Bengali, Hindi, Punjabi and Tamil readers.

I'm thinking of ordering it in Welsh - do you think they will provide
it, as it is one of the UKs official languages? (I think it and English
are the only two)

On your other point, discussing with someone who works in translation,
this sort of thing would normally have been agreed in advance and
harmonised between all the different translations, but that doesn't
appear to have been the case here....

ELL closure
 

On 15/02/2016 14:55, d wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:00:16 +0000
Jim Chisholm wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't
being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Is the whole ELL being closed or is it just THAT station (Whitechapel)
that is being closed?

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

--
Spud


And what use would a Dalston Junction to Shoreditch High Street service
really be? Or are you just thinking of a shorter rail reaplcement service?

ELL closure
 

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:11:26 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 14:55, d wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:00:16 +0000
Jim Chisholm wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't
being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

--
Spud

Is the whole ELL being closed or is it just THAT station (Whitechapel)
that is being closed?

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

--
Spud


And what use would a Dalston Junction to Shoreditch High Street service
really be? Or are you just thinking of a shorter rail reaplcement service?

When I used the line a boatload of people used to go from highbury to Hoxton or
shoreditch high street. The latter presumably as an alternative to going
around the houses on the met to liverpool street since its only a 5 min
walk from the latter.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On Monday, 15 February 2016 14:55:06 UTC, wrote:
Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

Yes, the Victoria line was closed from Seven Sisters to Walthamstow for 3 weeks last summer.

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

9 days seems a long time for trains to be cut off from their depot. Where would they be stabled and cleaned, and where would the drivers book on? (And where would they park their cars!)

ELL closure
 

On 15/02/2016 15:51, Mark wrote:
On Monday, 15 February 2016 14:55:06 UTC, wrote:
Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

Yes, the Victoria line was closed from Seven Sisters to Walthamstow for 3 weeks last summer.

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

9 days seems a long time for trains to be cut off from their depot. Where would they be stabled and cleaned, and where would the drivers book on? (And where would they park their cars!)

Where does the NLL get its trains from? Surely for 9 days they could
rotate some of the sets in and out and guard them in stations overnight
or whatever?

ELL closure
 

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:51:10 -0800 (PST)
Mark wrote:
On Monday, 15 February 2016 14:55:06 UTC, wrote:
Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

Yes, the Victoria line was closed from Seven Sisters to Walthamstow for 3
weeks last summer.

Ok, major incident or major track repairs. And each of the affected stations
had an NR alternative. The closure of the ELL is nothing to do with the ELL
itself. Even a shuttle train would be better than nothing. But I guess its
easier to close the whole thing and sod the travelling public.

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

9 days seems a long time for trains to be cut off from their depot. Where
would they be stabled and cleaned, and where would the drivers book on? (And
where would they park their cars!)

Use the NLL depots obviously.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On 2016-02-15 12:06:25 +0000, d said:

I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?


It's closed because of one of the largest civil engineering projects
ever in Europe. As you don't use it anyway, you will not be
inconvenienced.

E.

ELL closure
 

On 2016\02\15 16:30, d wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:51:10 -0800 (PST)
Mark wrote:
On Monday, 15 February 2016 14:55:06 UTC, wrote:
Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?

Yes, the Victoria line was closed from Seven Sisters to Walthamstow for 3
weeks last summer.

Ok, major incident or major track repairs. And each of the affected stations
had an NR alternative. The closure of the ELL is nothing to do with the ELL
itself. Even a shuttle train would be better than nothing. But I guess its
easier to close the whole thing and sod the travelling public.

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were apparently
too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch High Street when
the line was built and the route of crossrail was already known.

9 days seems a long time for trains to be cut off from their depot. Where
would they be stabled and cleaned, and where would the drivers book on? (And
where would they park their cars!)

Use the NLL depots obviously.

Loads of space in them, is there? (I don't know if there is.)

ELL closure
 

In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 15/02/2016 14:28, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\15 13:09, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 13:02, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 15/02/2016 12:06, d wrote:
I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it
wasn't being taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its
slow service and poor timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you
imagine any tube line being closed for that many consecutive days now
unless there had been a major incident?

Aren't they putting in place the new concourse at Whitechapel as part
of the station rebuilding to support Crossrail? That's a fairly major
piece of engineering, which can affect other lines - look at what's
going to happen to Bank in a few years time...

And in any case, it's only really the new bit (plus Whitechapel to
Shadwell) which is shut - you can get under the river for once.

There you go - there's even a nice information sheet on it:

http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab656259...23.cf3.rackcdn.
com/assets/library/document/c/original/c512-xrl-z-xbu-d061-50180-whitechapel_
station_closures_february_16.pdf

(here's a shortened version of the link http://bit.ly/1QgLyAI )

Available in many different languages should you so choose!

I'd be fascinated to know why "Crossrail" is spelled in the Latin
alphabet for Chinese, Greek, Gujurati and Urdu readers, but not for
Arabic, Bengali, Hindi, Punjabi and Tamil readers.

I'm thinking of ordering it in Welsh - do you think they will provide
it, as it is one of the UKs official languages? (I think it and
English are the only two)

On your other point, discussing with someone who works in
translation, this sort of thing would normally have been agreed in
advance and harmonised between all the different translations, but
that doesn't appear to have been the case here....

And why none in Farsi? Iran appears to have acquired some Crossrail trains
(as shown on Twitter last week).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

ELL closure
 

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

On 2016\02\15 16:30, d wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:51:10 -0800 (PST)
Mark wrote:
On Monday, 15 February 2016 14:55:06 UTC, wrote:
Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a
major incident?

Yes, the Victoria line was closed from Seven Sisters to Walthamstow for
3 weeks last summer.

Ok, major incident or major track repairs. And each of the affected
stations had an NR alternative. The closure of the ELL is nothing to do
with the ELL itself. Even a shuttle train would be better than nothing.
But I guess its easier to close the whole thing and sod the travelling
public.

Closed all the way from Highbury down to Shadwell. Since TfL were
apparently too shortsighted to specify reversing points at Shortditch
High Street when the line was built and the route of crossrail was
already known.

9 days seems a long time for trains to be cut off from their depot.
Where would they be stabled and cleaned, and where would the drivers
book on? (And where would they park their cars!)

Use the NLL depots obviously.

Loads of space in them, is there? (I don't know if there is.)

They may now be regretting that the link to the NLL at Highbury & Islington
has never been commissioned because of the complications of the two
electrification systems. But available it is not so there is no way to run a
shuttle, even if Shoreditch High Street had a handy crossover.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

ELL closure
 

"Someone Somewhere" wrote i
On 15/02/2016 14:28, Basil Jet wrote:

Available in many different languages should you so choose!

I'd be fascinated to know why "Crossrail" is spelled in the Latin
alphabet for Chinese, Greek, Gujurati and Urdu readers, but not for
Arabic, Bengali, Hindi, Punjabi and Tamil readers.

I'm thinking of ordering it in Welsh - do you think they will provide
it, as it is one of the UKs official languages? (I think it and English
are the only two)

** Add Scottish Gaelic

On your other point, discussing with someone who works in translation,
this sort of thing would normally have been agreed in advance and
harmonised between all the different translations, but that doesn't
appear to have been the case here....

That may be the neat way but the best way depends on what readers of each
language are accustomed to see for which you might have to check newspapers
and indeed other leaflets.

Greek road vehicle number plates are Latin alphabet (except the Greek army
uses Greek).


--
Mike D

ELL closure
 

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:44:38 +0000
eastender wrote:
On 2016-02-15 12:06:25 +0000, d said:

I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't
being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?


It's closed because of one of the largest civil engineering projects
ever in Europe. As you don't use it anyway, you will not be
inconvenienced.

No, its closed because TfL don't believe in installing reversing points.
To close 3 miles of the line that could satisfactorily operated otherwise
just because of work at one station is pathetic.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:25:52 -0600
wrote:
In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:
Loads of space in them, is there? (I don't know if there is.)

They may now be regretting that the link to the NLL at Highbury & Islington
has never been commissioned because of the complications of the two
electrification systems. But available it is not so there is no way to run a
shuttle, even if Shoreditch High Street had a handy crossover.

What complications? The NLL itself switches between overhead and 3rd rail.
That aside, they could store a couple of units overnight at Dalston Junction
for the 9 days and hire a security guard. But obviously thats not going to
happen with TfLs Can't-Do culture.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:44:38 +0000
eastender wrote:
On 2016-02-15 12:06:25 +0000, d said:

I see the ELL is closed it for 9 days. I had my suspicions that it wasn't
being
taken seriously as a transport link by TfL given its slow service and
poor
timetable, and this rather proves it. Can you imagine any tube line being
closed for that many consecutive days now unless there had been a major
incident?


It's closed because of one of the largest civil engineering projects
ever in Europe. As you don't use it anyway, you will not be
inconvenienced.

No, its closed because TfL don't believe in installing reversing points.
To close 3 miles of the line that could satisfactorily operated otherwise
just because of work at one station is pathetic.

Presumably you DO believe in paying a £6 (or might it be a tenner?)
single-zone fare to fund lots of enhancements.

Would you prefer to share the cost across all London households, charging us
an extra few quid on monthly council tax?

If lots of people agree, maybe TfL could set up a system enhancements
charitable trust to which you could all make monthly donations!

Of course, if we had a different political system (France, NL, Germany?) we
might have the optimum urban rail networks, rather than the affordable
versions. OTOH, if we had another different political system (USA?) we might
have ALMOST NO urban rail networks.

Choice.

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:49:06 +0000
Water musician wrote:
On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):
No, its closed because TfL don't believe in installing reversing points.
To close 3 miles of the line that could satisfactorily operated otherwise
just because of work at one station is pathetic.

Presumably you DO believe in paying a £6 (or might it be a tenner?)
single-zone fare to fund lots of enhancements.

So lets get this straight, you think installing one extra set of reversing
points when the ELLX was being built would require an extra 5 quid on fares
to fund it do you?

Go and have a lie down.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On 2016-02-16 09:49:06 +0000, Water musician said:

Of course, if we had a different political system (France, NL, Germany?) we
might have the optimum urban rail networks, rather than the affordable
versions. OTOH, if we had another different political system (USA?) we might
have ALMOST NO urban rail networks.

While your general point is solid, the latter is patently false. Large
US cities have urban rail networks, most of them quite comprehensive.
It's InterCity and rural rail the US really lacks, and this is
understandable given the size of the place; air is much more practical.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

ELL closure
 

On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:49:06 +0000
Water musician wrote:
On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):
No, its closed because TfL don't believe in installing reversing points.
To close 3 miles of the line that could satisfactorily operated otherwise
just because of work at one station is pathetic.

Presumably you DO believe in paying a £6 (or might it be a tenner?)
single-zone fare to fund lots of enhancements.

So lets get this straight, you think installing one extra set of reversing
points when the ELLX was being built would require an extra 5 quid on fares
to fund it do you?

Go and have a lie down.

Of course not. My point is that TfL has to work to budgets. Which means that
“wish lists� or optimum systems may have to be trimmed to produce
affordable, deliverable budgets.

This group could probably generate a list of 100 or more desirable
enhancements to London’s transport network in a couple of hours – many of
which could deliver more efficient / more economical operations.

But implementing them all would not be possible unless TfL had a much bigger
budget – and that can only come from two sources: taxpayers or passengers.

Personally, my No1 priority would be to double capacity on the 360 and 244
bus routes – but I accept that the best we’re likely to get is an extra 1
bus/hour when contracts are renewed.

Sadly, development of any system all too often turns out to be a tussle
between what’s desirable and what’s affordable within a given budget.

That is the point I am trying to make.

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:19:54 +0000
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-02-16 09:49:06 +0000, Water musician said:

Of course, if we had a different political system (France, NL, Germany?) we
might have the optimum urban rail networks, rather than the affordable
versions. OTOH, if we had another different political system (USA?) we might
have ALMOST NO urban rail networks.

While your general point is solid, the latter is patently false. Large
US cities have urban rail networks, most of them quite comprehensive.
It's InterCity and rural rail the US really lacks, and this is
understandable given the size of the place; air is much more practical.

A 200mph TGV could get up and down the east and west coasts in a few hours.
With its large amounts of land and huge economy the US is perfect for high
speed rail, there's just little political will. Air should only really be
needed for cross continent trips.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

In message , at 10:19:54 on Tue, 16
Feb 2016, Neil Williams remarked:

Of course, if we had a different political system (France, NL, Germany?) we
might have the optimum urban rail networks, rather than the affordable
versions. OTOH, if we had another different political system (USA?) we might
have ALMOST NO urban rail networks.

While your general point is solid, the latter is patently false. Large
US cities have urban rail networks, most of them quite comprehensive.

Here's a list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ter_rail_syste
ms_by_ridership
--
Roland Perry

ELL closure
 

On 16/02/2016 10:22, Water musician wrote:

Personally, my No1 priority would be to double capacity on the 360 and 244
bus routes – but I accept that the best we’re likely to get is an extra 1
bus/hour when contracts are renewed.


Couldn't they improve capacity on those just by ironing out the meanders?

ELL closure
 

In article , d () wrote:

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:25:52 -0600
wrote:
In article , (Basil
Jet) wrote:
Loads of space in them, is there? (I don't know if there is.)

They may now be regretting that the link to the NLL at Highbury &
Islington has never been commissioned because of the complications of the
two electrification systems. But available it is not so there is no way
to run a shuttle, even if Shoreditch High Street had a handy crossover.

What complications? The NLL itself switches between overhead and 3rd rail.
That aside, they could store a couple of units overnight at Dalston
Junction for the 9 days and hire a security guard. But obviously
thats not going to
happen with TfLs Can't-Do culture.

Signalling immunisation hasn't been implemented, apparently.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:22:23 +0000
Water musician wrote:
On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):
So lets get this straight, you think installing one extra set of reversing
points when the ELLX was being built would require an extra 5 quid on fares
to fund it do you?

Go and have a lie down.

Of course not. My point is that TfL has to work to budgets. Which means that
“wish lists� or optimum systems may have to be trimmed to produce
affordable, deliverable budgets.

Compared to the total cost of the ELL extension an extra set of points
would be neither here nor there.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 05:19:25 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:25:52 -0600
wrote:
In article , (Basil
Jet) wrote:
Loads of space in them, is there? (I don't know if there is.)

They may now be regretting that the link to the NLL at Highbury &
Islington has never been commissioned because of the complications of the
two electrification systems. But available it is not so there is no way
to run a shuttle, even if Shoreditch High Street had a handy crossover.

What complications? The NLL itself switches between overhead and 3rd rail.
That aside, they could store a couple of units overnight at Dalston
Junction for the 9 days and hire a security guard. But obviously
thats not going to
happen with TfLs Can't-Do culture.

Signalling immunisation hasn't been implemented, apparently.

Would it matter if the stock was transfered in the small hours when the
lines were closed?

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On 2016\02\16 10:03, d wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:49:06 +0000
Water musician wrote:
On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):
No, its closed because TfL don't believe in installing reversing points.
To close 3 miles of the line that could satisfactorily operated otherwise
just because of work at one station is pathetic.

Presumably you DO believe in paying a £6 (or might it be a tenner?)
single-zone fare to fund lots of enhancements.

So lets get this straight, you think installing one extra set of reversing
points when the ELLX was being built would require an extra 5 quid on fares
to fund it do you?

Go and have a lie down.

Even a few yards of dual electrification require expensive and bulky
equipment.

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:49:19 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\02\16 10:03, d wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:49:06 +0000
Water musician wrote:
On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):
No, its closed because TfL don't believe in installing reversing points.
To close 3 miles of the line that could satisfactorily operated otherwise
just because of work at one station is pathetic.

Presumably you DO believe in paying a £6 (or might it be a tenner?)
single-zone fare to fund lots of enhancements.

So lets get this straight, you think installing one extra set of reversing
points when the ELLX was being built would require an extra 5 quid on fares
to fund it do you?

Go and have a lie down.

Even a few yards of dual electrification require expensive and bulky
equipment.

Err, right. Care to tell us why you think reversing points at shoreditch
would required 25KV AC to be installed on the completely 3rd rail ELL?

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

In article , d () wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 05:19:25 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:25:52 -0600
wrote:
In article , (Basil
Jet) wrote:
Loads of space in them, is there? (I don't know if there is.)

They may now be regretting that the link to the NLL at Highbury &
Islington has never been commissioned because of the complications of
the two electrification systems. But available it is not so there is
no way to run a shuttle, even if Shoreditch High Street had a handy
crossover.

What complications? The NLL itself switches between overhead and 3rd
rail. That aside, they could store a couple of units overnight at
Dalston Junction for the 9 days and hire a security guard. But
obviously thats not going to happen with TfLs Can't-Do culture.

Signalling immunisation hasn't been implemented, apparently.

Would it matter if the stock was transfered in the small hours when the
lines were closed?

The connection was only ever intended for stock transfers like that but has
never had its signalling commissioned, AIUI.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:11:26 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:
Would it matter if the stock was transfered in the small hours when the
lines were closed?

The connection was only ever intended for stock transfers like that but has
never had its signalling commissioned, AIUI.

Surely for a short connector like that you'd just have a possession anyway?
Whatever the reason , its certainly wasn't being used last year as the rails
were pretty rusty.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:24:14 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:19:54 +0000
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-02-16 09:49:06 +0000, Water musician said:

Of course, if we had a different political system (France, NL, Germany?) we
might have the optimum urban rail networks, rather than the affordable
versions. OTOH, if we had another different political system (USA?) we might
have ALMOST NO urban rail networks.

While your general point is solid, the latter is patently false. Large
US cities have urban rail networks, most of them quite comprehensive.
It's InterCity and rural rail the US really lacks, and this is
understandable given the size of the place; air is much more practical.

A 200mph TGV could get up and down the east and west coasts in a few hours.
With its large amounts of land and huge economy the US is perfect for high
speed rail, there's just little political will. Air should only really be
needed for cross continent trips.

There's little political will because the trains would probably lose
money, while the faster air services are profitable, at least some of
the time. The trains would still have the problem of getting into the
city centres on dedicated new high speed lines, not competing for
space on the existing freight lines.

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:29:01 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:22:23 +0000
Water musician wrote:
On 16 Feb 2016, d wrote
(in article ):
So lets get this straight, you think installing one extra set of reversing
points when the ELLX was being built would require an extra 5 quid on fares
to fund it do you?

Go and have a lie down.

Of course not. My point is that TfL has to work to budgets. Which means that
“wish lists� or optimum systems may have to be trimmed to produce
affordable, deliverable budgets.

Compared to the total cost of the ELL extension an extra set of points
would be neither here nor there.

They'd also need maintenance, as would their signalling, so running
costs would go up too. They'd occasionally fail, or need weekend
closures for maintenance, which would have you bitterly complaining
about the over-complex line.

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 13:46:04 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:24:14 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:
A 200mph TGV could get up and down the east and west coasts in a few hours.
With its large amounts of land and huge economy the US is perfect for high
speed rail, there's just little political will. Air should only really be
needed for cross continent trips.

There's little political will because the trains would probably lose
money, while the faster air services are profitable, at least some of

Given the cost and complexity of aircraft, the cost of maintaining them,
landing fees, fuel etc, you have to wonder exactly just how air is cheaper.

the time. The trains would still have the problem of getting into the
city centres on dedicated new high speed lines, not competing for
space on the existing freight lines.

Thats just politics. Money didn't stop Boston building a new road tunnel
system under the city recently for purely aesthetic reasons (they already
have overpasses) that cost $14 billion.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 13:48:14 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 11:29:01 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:
They'd also need maintenance, as would their signalling, so running
costs would go up too. They'd occasionally fail, or need weekend
closures for maintenance, which would have you bitterly complaining
about the over-complex line.

Oh please. 1 set of points that would hardly ever be used would require
minimal maintenance compared to the ones at Dalston and Highbury. Think of
another reason Mr TfL Apologist.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

In message , at 16:32:36 on Tue, 16 Feb
2016, d remarked:

Given the cost and complexity of aircraft, the cost of maintaining them,
landing fees, fuel etc, you have to wonder exactly just how air is cheaper.

Because the only infrastructure which requires maintaining is the
airport at either end. The airspace maintains itself.
--
Roland Perry

ELL closure
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:47:52 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:36 on Tue, 16 Feb
2016, d remarked:

Given the cost and complexity of aircraft, the cost of maintaining them,
landing fees, fuel etc, you have to wonder exactly just how air is cheaper.

Because the only infrastructure which requires maintaining is the
airport at either end. The airspace maintains itself.

Thats a lot of infrastructure. I would imagine that in total complexity
Heathrow far exceeds the east or west coast mainlines. Control tower, radar,
ILS, baggage, runway & taxiways, hangers, underground fuel pipes, storage,
vehicles, security including fences, car parks, staff transport, commercial
premises, and probably 101 things I haven't even thought of.

--
Spud

ELL closure
 

In article , d () wrote:

On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:11:26 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:
Would it matter if the stock was transfered in the small hours when the
lines were closed?

The connection was only ever intended for stock transfers like that but
has never had its signalling commissioned, AIUI.

Surely for a short connector like that you'd just have a possession
anyway? Whatever the reason , its certainly wasn't being used last year as
the rails were pretty rusty.

It's never been used AFAIAA.

--
Colin Rosenstiel