Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-03-03 15:11:18 +0000, Recliner said:

Yup, bus fares would have to rise for everyone to cover the loss of
revenue from those taking two or more buses for their journey.

They would, but they would be much fairer, because people would not get
a discount for TfL providing a direct bus for their journey - or rather
people would not be penalised again for TfL not providing a direct bus
for their journey.

The current system is *incredibly* unfair. It near enough works in
small towns where most journeys are to/from the city centre on one
direct bus, and usually if your journey requires crossing the city
centre it's roughly twice as far so charging twice as much is not all
that unreasonable. London is too big for that to work.

I agree it's unfair, but that's partly balanced by lower bus fares. But to
make it fairer for some, it would have to get more expensive for others who
benefit from the current system. And, as always, the losers shout much
louder than the winners cheer (partly because the losers soon discover that
they're losing out, while the potential winners may not even be customers
yet).

On 03/03/2016 15:28, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2016-03-03 14:45:58 +0000, Mizter T said:

No need for that level of complexity - you already said it, "a second
touch-in free" - i.e. one free transfer - within a time limit. No
people 'restarting the clock' like that.

Why only one? I can change as many times as I wish on a Tube journey.
It is not out of the question that the quickest way to do a particular
journey may be three buses (though four is heading towards the
proverbial goat herding), or Tube-bus-bus or bus-Tube-bus or whatever.

No break-of-journey on the Tube though, as is possible in Hamburg.


A single journey should be, like it is in Hamburg, a single journey. No
matter what you use to do it, it is one fare for a journey from point A
to point B.

Hamburg doesn't seem to have a time limit for a single ticket, but
there's certainly a limit in other Germany cities (e.g. Berlin, Munich).

As per HVV (Hamburg):
http://www.hvv.de/en/tickets/single-day-tickets/overview/index.php

---quote---
With the single tickets you get on, change lines, get off - and back on
again! Anything goes as long as it is on the most direct route to your
destination.
Round trips and return journeys are not permitted, however.
---/quote---


Have fun trying to program that for Oyster/contactless! (Presumably it'd
have to be Oyster MkII, i.e. account based... but still, enjoy...)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:27:16 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Will you get to see bendy buses on the streets of London again?

Doubtful and to be honest it's not important.
[...]
We need to get away from an obsession with vehicle types or some
aspect of them and concentrate on adding capacity where it is needed,

The environmental aspect is pretty important! Wouldn't running bendies
generate less polution for the same passenger capacity than using
double-deckers?

--
jhk

Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:27:16 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Will you get to see bendy buses on the streets of London again?

Doubtful and to be honest it's not important.
[...]
We need to get away from an obsession with vehicle types or some
aspect of them and concentrate on adding capacity where it is needed,

The environmental aspect is pretty important! Wouldn't running bendies
generate less polution for the same passenger capacity than using
double-deckers?

Why?

"Mizter T" wrote

No break-of-journey on the Tube though, as is possible in Hamburg.

As you know, you can break your tube journey at any OSI and for DLR and
Overground at any station without barriers.

Subject to time limits for OSIs and for the entire journey.


--
Mike D

In article , d () wrote:

On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:45:58 +0000
Mizter T wrote:
On 03/03/2016 14:32, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2016-03-03 11:48:29 +0000, d said:

Would be easy - though costly - to implement too. Have a touch out
reader on the bus for people wanting to interchange to a different
route then have a timeout of say 30 mins for them to get the next
bus.

Don't even need that complexity. Just allow a second touch-in free
within, say, 1.5-2 hours of a touch in, with any further touch-in
restarting the clock. The odd person would get to do a return-half
journey for nothing, and somebody would no doubt stop a bus, touch in
and alight to restart the clock deliberately, but it would be so few
and such short journeys that the effect would be marginal.


No need for that level of complexity - you already said it, "a second
touch-in free" - i.e. one free transfer - within a time limit. No people
'restarting the clock' like that.

Problem with that is that some bus journeys take a long time especially in
rush hour. So if you have a simple time out based on the touch-in time
then it could be exceeded by a long bus journey + wait for next bus.
However if you make it long enough to take account of all realistic
scenarios you could have people getting to their destination, doing
their shopping/whatever and then getting a free trip home again.

Since the point is to allow simpler routing by changing buses rather than
allow people to travel further that's hardly a problem. If people want to
travel more than an hour by bus it's not unreasonable to pay more.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2016-03-03 15:11:18 +0000, Recliner said:

Yup, bus fares would have to rise for everyone to cover the loss of
revenue from those taking two or more buses for their journey.

They would, but they would be much fairer, because people would not
get a discount for TfL providing a direct bus for their journey - or
rather people would not be penalised again for TfL not providing a
direct bus for their journey.

The current system is *incredibly* unfair. It near enough works in
small towns where most journeys are to/from the city centre on one
direct bus, and usually if your journey requires crossing the city
centre it's roughly twice as far so charging twice as much is not all
that unreasonable. London is too big for that to work.

It's just hit Cambridge where a route from the north, covering s string of
villages and the city has been cut back and no longer goes to the railway
station and hospital. There are plenty of buses its passengers can change
onto but no transfer fares unless they buy a day ticket.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2016-03-03 14:45:58 +0000, Mizter T said:

No need for that level of complexity - you already said it, "a
second touch-in free" - i.e. one free transfer - within a time
limit. No people 'restarting the clock' like that.

Why only one? I can change as many times as I wish on a Tube
journey. It is not out of the question that the quickest way to do a
particular journey may be three buses (though four is heading towards
the proverbial goat herding), or Tube-bus-bus or bus-Tube-bus or
whatever.

A single journey should be, like it is in Hamburg, a single journey.
No matter what you use to do it, it is one fare for a journey from
point A to point B.

Hence Caroline's proposal for a one hour bus ticket. Routes could be so much
simpler if changing buses wasn't penalised.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Jarle Hammen Knudsen) wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:27:16 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Will you get to see bendy buses on the streets of London again?

Doubtful and to be honest it's not important.
[...]
We need to get away from an obsession with vehicle types or some
aspect of them and concentrate on adding capacity where it is needed,

The environmental aspect is pretty important! Wouldn't running bendies
generate less polution for the same passenger capacity than using
double-deckers?

Arguably any gain on the buses would be balanced against the reduction in
the numbers of cyclists transferring to more energy-consuming modes because
bendies are such a nightmare to share road space with.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2016-03-03 22:19:00 +0000, said:

Since the point is to allow simpler routing by changing buses rather than
allow people to travel further that's hardly a problem. If people want to
travel more than an hour by bus it's not unreasonable to pay more.

You've seen London traffic, right?

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.