It isn't a question of whether or not it's reasonable for
an able bodied person. It's whether it's accurate or misleading.
Public transport is not exclusively for the fit and able. Nor is it
exclusively for public transport enthusiasts who swat up on
every possibility before choosing their route. Maps and diagrams
like these are studied by the ignorant and by the disabled who
need correct information.

The point I made may be irrelevant to you. It will not be
irrelevant to many less fortunate people.

On 2016-03-01 22:16:02 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Accident I reckon. There are often inconsistencies when things are
done at the last minute as all the Elizabeth Line stuff is. Even the
Crossraiil site itself has maps that are all out of date. For example
they don't feature the West Anglia / Romford - Upminster Overground
lines and none of them show an Overground connection at Forest Gate. I
expect the Lizzie Line map was derived from what has been done for
Crossrail hence the error being perpetuated.

I note that on the Elizabeth Line map the accessibility icons are the
wrong way round. Only the new-build stations will have step-free
access from train to platform, the map says the opposite.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2016\03\02 10:01, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-03-01 22:16:02 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Accident I reckon. There are often inconsistencies when things are
done at the last minute as all the Elizabeth Line stuff is. Even the
Crossraiil site itself has maps that are all out of date. For example
they don't feature the West Anglia / Romford - Upminster Overground
lines and none of them show an Overground connection at Forest Gate. I
expect the Lizzie Line map was derived from what has been done for
Crossrail hence the error being perpetuated.

I note that on the Elizabeth Line map the accessibility icons are the
wrong way round. Only the new-build stations will have step-free access
from train to platform, the map says the opposite.

This has been publicised.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...-a3188126.html

In article ,
Robin9 wrote:

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;154218']The current TfL Rail map

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tfl-rail

shows interchange with the Goblin at Forest Gate, but the new Betty map

http://tinyurl.com/h3r9l35

doesn't. Accident or design?

TfL are peddling flannel, The Standard is telling the truth.
The distance between Forest Gate Station and Wanstead Park
Station is far greater than the distances at West Hampstead.

Er, not really. Forest Gate - Wanstead Park is ~200-250m; so is
West Hampstead Tube - West Hampstead Thameslink. While the West
Hampstead link might be marginally shorter, they're certainly in
the same ballpark.


--
Mike Bristow

I drove down Woodgrange Road today past the two stations a few
hours before reading your post. Next time I'll re-set my clock and
measure the distance.

This morning I met a woman who has severe back problems as
has her 70 year old mother. She told me she has difficulties in
walking or standing up for long periods. I explained the bone of
contention in this thread and asked her opinion. She affirmed
that my argument is correct and that for people with mobility
problems, being obliged to walk between stations is onerous.

Robin9 wrote:


Mizter T;154259 Wrote:
On 01/03/2016 16:59, Robin9 wrote:
-
'Basil Jet wrote:-
The current TfL Rail map

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tfl-rail

shows interchange with the Goblin at Forest Gate, but the new Betty
map

http://tinyurl.com/h3r9l35

doesn't. Accident or design?-

TfL are peddling flannel, The Standard is telling the truth.
The distance between Forest Gate Station and Wanstead Park
Station is far greater than the distances at West Hampstead.-

Leaving aside the fact they are both TfL maps, your point is
irrelevant

- there's no rule that says different station interchanges shown on
a map have to be the same distance as between the West Hampsteads.
I think

Forest Gate to Wanstead Park is perfectly reasonable to be shown as
an interchange.

It isn't a question of whether or not it's reasonable for
an able bodied person. It's whether it's accurate or misleading.
Public transport is not exclusively for the fit and able. Nor is it
exclusively for public transport enthusiasts who swat up on
every possibility before choosing their route. Maps and diagrams
like these are studied by the ignorant and by the disabled who
need correct information.

The point I made may be irrelevant to you. It will not be
irrelevant to many less fortunate people.

What exactly is misleading about saying that Wanstead Park is 300m away
from Forest Gate? The map shows the distance so anyone who is unable to
walk 300m can choose another route.

Presumably by your reasoning TfL should remove all stations without
step-free access from the map because some people may be unable to use
them?

Peter Smyth

This morning I met a woman who has severe back problems as
has her 70 year old mother. She told me she has difficulties in
walking or standing up for long periods.

So at what point do we stop showing an interchange? What if that walk is entirely within the gateline? What about the walk between main line platforms and Underground?

Robin9 wrote:


Mike Bristow;154290 Wrote:
In article ,
Robin9 wrote:-

'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote: -
;154218']The current TfL Rail map

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tfl-rail

shows interchange with the Goblin at Forest Gate, but the new Betty
map

http://tinyurl.com/h3r9l35

doesn't. Accident or design?-

TfL are peddling flannel, The Standard is telling the truth.
The distance between Forest Gate Station and Wanstead Park
Station is far greater than the distances at West Hampstead.-

Er, not really. Forest Gate - Wanstead Park is ~200-250m; so is
West Hampstead Tube - West Hampstead Thameslink. While the West
Hampstead link might be marginally shorter, they're certainly in
the same ballpark.


--
Mike Bristow

I drove down Woodgrange Road today past the two stations a few
hours before reading your post. Next time I'll re-set my clock and
measure the distance.

This morning I met a woman who has severe back problems as
has her 70 year old mother. She told me she has difficulties in
walking or standing up for long periods. I explained the bone of
contention in this thread and asked her opinion. She affirmed
that my argument is correct and that for people with mobility
problems, being obliged to walk between stations is onerous.

Nobody is "obliged" to do anything. As far as I am aware there are no
staff at Forest Gate chucking people off trains and forcing them to
walk to Wanstead Park.

TfL are merely making people aware of an option that may be useful for
some journeys.

Peter Smyth

On 2016\03\02 17:25, Robin9 wrote:

I drove down Woodgrange Road today past the two stations a few
hours before reading your post. Next time I'll re-set my clock and
measure the distance.

Forest Gate geo:51.5494,0.0242
Wanstead Park geo:51.5518,0.0264

The north-south distance is 267m, the actual distance is near enough to
that.

On 2016\03\02 23:19, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\03\02 17:25, Robin9 wrote:

I drove down Woodgrange Road today past the two stations a few
hours before reading your post. Next time I'll re-set my clock and
measure the distance.

Forest Gate geo:51.5494,0.0242
Wanstead Park geo:51.5518,0.0264

The north-south distance is 267m, the actual distance is near enough to
that.

Incidentally, the 12-carriage platforms at St Pancras Thameslink etc are
something like 240m long I believe.