Converting Railways To Roads
 

When little-used railway lines began to be closed in the
1950s, some people suggested they should be converted
to roads. In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.

Recently, while driving in rural Buckinghamshire, I came to a
very new-looking overhead bridge. I knew the railway line
had been closed several decades ago so I climbed up the
embankment . . . and found a new single lane road! It is
built on the track bed of the disused railway line which once
ran from Grendon Underwood Junction on the Great Central
Line to Ashendon Junction on the Great Western Line.

I was so intrigued I investigated where it began and ended.
The road runs north from the A41 a few miles north west of
Waddesdon. (South of the A41 the railway route is still
abandoned) The road ends more or less at the old junction
with the Great Central Line where there is now an industrial
estate; and I don't mean trading estate or retail park. The
only vehicles using the new road are heavy goods trucks.
The road is single lane with passing lay-bys every few
hundred yards.

This road is not shown on the current Ordnance Survey map
Landranger series, 2016 Crown Copyright, so presumably it is
very new.

Although the road is narrow and therefore has limited capacity,
because it follows the alignment of an old railway route, it has
no sharp bends or steep gradients and is far better than many
rural roads. It may be that the old notion of converting some
abandoned railway routes to roads was a good idea after all.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Sat, 7 May 2016 15:47:47 +0200
Robin9 wrote:
I was so intrigued I investigated where it began and ended.
The road runs north from the A41 a few miles north west of
Waddesdon. (South of the A41 the railway route is still
abandoned) The road ends more or less at the old junction
with the Great Central Line where there is now an industrial
estate; and I don't mean trading estate or retail park. The
only vehicles using the new road are heavy goods trucks.

Was it a private road or was their access from the A41?

rural roads. It may be that the old idea of converting some
abandoned railway route to roads was a good idea after all.

Don't forget the "cheap" busways some councils love, a lot of which have
been built on old railway lines.

--
Spud

Converting Railways To Roads
 

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

A283 Steyning Bypass
,16z
This required a couple of bridges to be rebuilt, but was otherwise fairly
straightforward.

A61/A617 Chesterfield
,14z
This is rather more extensive, and all dual carriageway. Other than a short
tunnel under the town centre nearly all of the route shown is on the
ex-Great Central trackbed.

--
DAS

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Sat, 7 May 2016 19:07:58 +0100, "D A Stocks"
wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

A283 Steyning Bypass
,16z
This required a couple of bridges to be rebuilt, but was otherwise fairly
straightforward.

A61/A617 Chesterfield
,14z
This is rather more extensive, and all dual carriageway. Other than a short
tunnel under the town centre nearly all of the route shown is on the
ex-Great Central trackbed.

When you drive to Blakpool, the M55 deposits you on Yeadon Way, which
was a former railway embankment that takes you into the car parks
where the former Blackpool Central station used to be.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 07/05/2016 19:07, D A Stocks wrote:
"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

A283 Steyning Bypass
,16z
This required a couple of bridges to be rebuilt, but was otherwise
fairly straightforward.

A61/A617 Chesterfield
,14z
This is rather more extensive, and all dual carriageway. Other than a
short tunnel under the town centre nearly all of the route shown is on
the ex-Great Central trackbed.

--
DAS


Also
Merantun Way, London
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...3!4d-0.1860826

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Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Sat, 7 May 2016 19:07:58 +0100, "D A Stocks"
wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

A283 Steyning Bypass
,16z
This required a couple of bridges to be rebuilt, but was otherwise fairly
straightforward.

A61/A617 Chesterfield
,14z
This is rather more extensive, and all dual carriageway. Other than a short
tunnel under the town centre nearly all of the route shown is on the
ex-Great Central trackbed.

Yeadon Way in Blackpool and I believe part of the M55 also:
http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/i...tle=Yeadon_Way

Edinburgh Western Approach road:
http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/i..._Approach_Road

Converting Railways To Roads
 

"Tony Dragon" wrote in message
...
Also
Merantun Way, London
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...3!4d-0.1860826

And the Otley bypass
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sideb...&right=BingHyb
and http://s32.postimg.org/gcd3m2dz9/otley.png

Converting Railways To Roads
 

"Tony Dragon" wrote in message
...
Also
Merantun Way, London
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...3!4d-0.1860826

And the Otley bypass http://s32.postimg.org/gcd3m2dz9/otley.png (can't link
to precise map from Nat Lib of Scotland site).

Also the A170 just east of Kirkbymoorside in North Yorkshire uses the
trackbed of the disused railway: a bypass was built which avoid a tortuous
route through a nearby village.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , D A Stocks
writes
"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

A283 Steyning Bypass
,16z
This required a couple of bridges to be rebuilt, but was otherwise
fairly straightforward.

A61/A617 Chesterfield
,14z
This is rather more extensive, and all dual carriageway. Other than a
short tunnel under the town centre nearly all of the route shown is on
the ex-Great Central trackbed.

--
DAS

Western Approach Road , Edinburgh

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/i..._Approach_Road

Brian
--
Brian Howie

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Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 07/05/16 19:59, NY wrote:
"Tony Dragon" wrote in message
...
Also
Merantun Way, London

[...]

And the Otley bypass

[...]

The Axbridge bypass was built over part of the Cheddar Valley line.

It does not seem to be a private road. I didn't see any
notices to that effect, and none of the drivers of the
goods trucks seemed indignant that I was using the road.

Access to the road is from the A41. If you're driving towards
Aylesbury from Bicester you come first to the point where
the old railway crossed the road on a overhead bridge. The
bricks of the retaining wall are still in place. A few yards further,
there is a left turn into a small industrial estate. Taking that left
turn, so you are moving parallel with the alignment of the old
route, you take another left turn which bears right onto the
old track bed.

The East Grinstead road I'm familiar with but those two other
examples I'll have to explore. (I go to Chesterfield every now
and then)

Converting Railways To Roads
 

A short section at Newport IOW.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.



The A3088 leading north west from Yeovil is built on part of the
Taunton-Yeovil track bed.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Sat, 7 May 2016 19:07:58 +0100, "D A Stocks"
wrote:

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

snip
The road from the village of Advie, Morayshire to the burial ground at
Advie Kirk runs along the trackbed of the Grantown to Keith line for
about half a mile.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 07:07:58PM +0100, D A Stocks wrote:

Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

Comparing it to the OS New Popular Edition
http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#539,138,1 it doesn't look like
there was much work done to other roads. New roundabout at the
south-eastern end, some alterations to the junction at the western end,
new junction with London Road, that's about it. As a frequent user I
find it to be an excellent re-use of otherwise wasted space.

--
David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing

Did you know that shotguns taste like candy canes? Put the barrel in
your mouth and pull the trigger for an extra blast of minty goodness!

Converting Railways To Roads
 

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.

The 'new' A33 in Reading where it passes under the A4. The original
bridge was wide enough for a dual carriageway with two lanes each way
and footways.

--
Goalie of the Century

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In article , D A Stocks
scribeth thus
"Robin9" wrote in message
...

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.


Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead
,17z
The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a
short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with
major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.

How apt the name too! "Beeching way" ;(....

--
Tony Sayer

Yes, but don't forget Dr. Beeching lived in East Grinstead, so
whoever thought up the name was not, perhaps, being
sarcastic!

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Fri, 13 May 2016 07:13:02 +0200
Robin9 wrote:
tony sayer;155697 Wrote:
In article , D A Stocks
scribeth thus-
"Robin9" wrote in message
...-

In the '60 and '70s some extremists, including
The Economist magazine, suggested that railways were
obsolete and that all the railway lines should be so converted.
This idea was repudiated by most sensible people and some
motoring organisations pointed out that railway routes were
not wide enough to be suitable for main roads.
-

Here are some examples that I know of:

A22 East Grinstead

The 'conversion' was a fairly major bit of civil engineering for such a

short piece of road, involving digging out two short tunnels along with

major reconstruction of several roads elsewhere in the town.-

How apt the name too! "Beeching way" ;(....

--
Tony Sayer

Yes, but don't forget Dr. Beeching lived in East Grinstead, so

Wonder if stood and watched the track being taken up south of grinstead with
a satisfied expression. The bluebells extension back to there is one in the
eye for him.

--
Spud

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 10:41:44 on
Fri, 13 May 2016, remarked:

Besides like hundreds of miles of other line it had closed before he
was appointed though people always seem to blame Beeching for them.

I always wonder what people would have thought of Beeching had he
recommended an insufficient number of cuts and BR was then forced into
the equivalent of receivership with only the Intercity lines (and a few
commuter services on the same rails) surviving.
--
Roland Perry

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:48:36 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:41:44 on
Fri, 13 May 2016, remarked:

Besides like hundreds of miles of other line it had closed before he
was appointed though people always seem to blame Beeching for them.

I always wonder what people would have thought of Beeching had he
recommended an insufficient number of cuts and BR was then forced into
the equivalent of receivership with only the Intercity lines (and a few
commuter services on the same rails) surviving.

Thats a bit like saying the Highways Agency would go into receivership because
the roads cost too much to repair. The only difference is governments are
happy to throw money at roads but not rail even though both bring massive
2ndary economic benefits.

--
Spud

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 10:23:51 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:

Besides like hundreds of miles of other line it had closed before he
was appointed though people always seem to blame Beeching for them.

I always wonder what people would have thought of Beeching had he
recommended an insufficient number of cuts and BR was then forced into
the equivalent of receivership with only the Intercity lines (and a few
commuter services on the same rails) surviving.

Thats a bit like saying the Highways Agency would go into receivership because
the roads cost too much to repair. The only difference is governments are
happy to throw money at roads but not rail even though both bring massive
2ndary economic benefits.

I don't think it's at all like the roads, because the mobility provided
by mass car usage also gathers a vast amount of tax. The problem (and
still is) with railways is they don't pay their way, and there has to
come a point when if the subsidy becomes unsustainable that governments
back in the day would have had no option but to pull the plug.
--
Roland Perry

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On Fri, 13 May 2016 13:20:35 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:23:51 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:

Besides like hundreds of miles of other line it had closed before he
was appointed though people always seem to blame Beeching for them.

I always wonder what people would have thought of Beeching had he
recommended an insufficient number of cuts and BR was then forced into
the equivalent of receivership with only the Intercity lines (and a few
commuter services on the same rails) surviving.

Thats a bit like saying the Highways Agency would go into receivership because
the roads cost too much to repair. The only difference is governments are
happy to throw money at roads but not rail even though both bring massive
2ndary economic benefits.

I don't think it's at all like the roads, because the mobility provided
by mass car usage also gathers a vast amount of tax. The problem (and
still is) with railways is they don't pay their way, and there has to
come a point when if the subsidy becomes unsustainable that governments
back in the day would have had no option but to pull the plug.

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million a year.
But the fact that roads bring economic benefits is a given as far as
governments are concerned - railways however they seem to think are a
nice-to-have even though in the major cities they're probably the 1st or 2nd
most popular method of commuting.

--
Spud

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 13:06:58 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT on
duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.
--
Roland Perry

Plus the VAT on spare parts and service charges, plus the
surcharge on insurance premiums which George Osborne
increased to 9%.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 13:06:58 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million
a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health costs
for a start.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 13/05/2016 18:05, Robin9 wrote:
Roland Perry;155705 Wrote:
In message , at 13:06:58 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:
-
I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have
been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million
a year.-

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT on

duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.
--
Roland Perry

Plus the VAT on spare parts and service charges, plus the
surcharge on insurance premiums which George Osborne
increased to 9%.

Why not include the VAT on the vehicle itself? If we didn't have roads,
people wouldn't buy cars....

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 19:22:50
on Fri, 13 May 2016, remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million
a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health costs
for a start.

Roads also allow the police to get to burglaries, and for ambulances to
get to patients and hospitals.

Do you have any numbers for your "costs" above? Apparently the Highways
Agency spends £1.5bn a year, and councils £3.1bn on road maintenance.
--
Roland Perry

You'e in danger here of putting out the same red herrings
the anti-motor car brigade is so fond of.

Very rarely does anyone quantify the full road costs, but
on the few occasions anyone was so rash, their figures
were quickly disproved. The revenue raised from motorists
goes to the Treasury but local roads are the responsibility
of local councils who have their own revenue streams.
So when the total cost of all roads is calculated, the input
from local authorities should not be ignored. It should also
be remembered that much of the expenditure today on roads
has nothing to do with motor vehicles, e.g the cycle super
highways or the disgraceful "mini-Holland" schemes now
blighting The London Borough Of Waltham Forest, and
therefore that expenditure should not be set against the
revenue from motorists.

Similarly, the policing and health decoy should be taken with
a very large pinch of salt. First, motorists do not only pay
motor related taxes. They also pay the same taxes other
people pay, and that combined tax revenue pays for police
and health services. Second, if money were not spent on roads,
police and health costs would go up, not down. Third, the health
consequences of motoring are far higher than necessary because
of decisions by anti-motor car politicians. (I note with great
optimism that the new Mayor seems to have noticed this)

Most important of all, spending money on roads is far cheaper
than financing a hopelessly inadequate public transport alternative.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 14/05/2016 01:22, wrote:

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 13:06:58 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million
a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health costs
for a start.

Oh dear... here come the made-up figures again...

Incidentally, is there a cost associated with ambulances not being able
to get injured people to hospital because of obstruction, etc?

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 14/05/2016 08:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:22:50
on Fri, 13 May 2016, remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have
been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million
a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health costs
for a start.

Roads also allow the police to get to burglaries, and for ambulances to
get to patients and hospitals.

Oops!

Well, most of the time...

Do you have any numbers for your "costs" above? Apparently the Highways
Agency spends £1.5bn a year, and councils £3.1bn on road maintenance.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 14/05/2016 09:19, Robin9 wrote:

;155709 Wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry)
wrote:
-
In message , at 13:06:58 on Fri, 13 May
2016, d remarked:
-
I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have
been
taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100 million

a year.-

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.-

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health
costs
for a start.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

You'e in danger here of putting out the same red herrings
the anti-motor car brigade is so fond of.

Very rarely does anyone quantify the full road costs, but
on the few occasions anyone was so rash, their figures
were quickly disproved. The revenue raised from motorists
goes to the Treasury but local roads are the responsibility
of local councils who have their own revenue streams.
So when the total cost of all roads is calculated, the input
from local authorities should not be ignored. It should also
be remembered that much of the expenditure today on roads
has nothing to do with motor vehicles, e.g the cycle super
highways or the disgraceful "mini-Holland" schemes now
blighting The London Borough Of Waltham Forest, and
therefore that expenditure should not be set against the
revenue from motorists.

Similarly, the policing and health decoy should be taken with
a very large pinch of salt. First, motorists do not only pay
motor related taxes. They also pay the same taxes other
people pay, and that combined tax revenue pays for police
and health services. Second, if money were not spent on roads,
police and health costs would go up, not down. Third, the health
consequences of motoring are far higher than necessary because
of decisions by anti-motor car politicians. (I note with great
optimism that the new Mayor seems to have noticed this)

Most important of all, spending money on roads is far cheaper
than financing a hopelessly inadequate public transport alternative.

Burn the heretic!

His remarks are totally unsupportive of The Project and have no place in
a closed-mind world like that of public transport and local politics.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 10:19:00 on Sat, 14
May 2016, Robin9 remarked:

Very rarely does anyone quantify the full road costs, but
on the few occasions anyone was so rash, their figures
were quickly disproved. The revenue raised from motorists
goes to the Treasury but local roads are the responsibility
of local councils who have their own revenue streams.

And their revenue stream for Highway maintenance (and even vanity
projects like Busways, new bypasses and new railway stations) comes
mainly from the government.

In Cambridgeshire where Colin and I live, the County's overall funding
comes 46% from council tax payers (£255m) and 54% from government grants
(£294m).

It's difficult to unpick the "roads" budget because - perhaps special to
Cambs - a big chunk is dedicated to cycleways[1] - however the car
related component is around £40m a year; which this year includes about
£10m for the Ely bypass whose main beneficiary is the railways, and is
as far as I can tell almost completely grant-funded, the county's
exposure being limited to the cost of building the business case.

[1] Which as far as I can see go largely un-used, so it's a waste.
--
Roland Perry

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 12:33:29 on Sat, 14
May 2016, JNugent remarked:

Incidentally, is there a cost associated with ambulances not being able
to get injured people to hospital because of obstruction, etc?

If only there was a way to fit them with devices to warn of their
approach and allow other vehicles to give way, and for them to ignore
traffic lights, speed limits and other artificially introduced
obstructions.
--
Roland Perry

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 14/05/2016 12:55, Roland Perry wrote:

JNugent remarked:

Incidentally, is there a cost associated with ambulances not being
able to get injured people to hospital because of obstruction, etc?

If only there was a way to fit them with devices to warn of their
approach and allow other vehicles to give way, and for them to ignore
traffic lights, speed limits and other artificially introduced
obstructions...

....and in particular, to be able to send out a magic ray which opens
padlocked gates.

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In message , at 15:56:37 on Sat, 14
May 2016, JNugent remarked:
Incidentally, is there a cost associated with ambulances not being
able to get injured people to hospital because of obstruction, etc?

If only there was a way to fit them with devices to warn of their
approach and allow other vehicles to give way, and for them to ignore
traffic lights, speed limits and other artificially introduced
obstructions...

...and in particular, to be able to send out a magic ray which opens
padlocked gates.

Best to stick to the vast majority of roads that don't have them.
--
Roland Perry

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 14/05/2016 08:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:22:50
on Fri, 13 May 2016, remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have
been taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100
million a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health
costs for a start.

Roads also allow the police to get to burglaries, and for ambulances to
get to patients and hospitals.

Oops!

Well, most of the time...

ALL the time. You're believing the Daily Telegraph again.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Converting Railways To Roads
 

On 14/05/2016 19:18, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 14/05/2016 08:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:22:50
on Fri, 13 May 2016, remarked:

I doubt roads pay their way either even after road and fuel tax have
been taken into account. The M25 widening alone is costing over £100
million a year.

Fuel Duty alone is 28 billion, and that doesn't include the 5.6bn VAT
on duty. VED is another (roughly) £6bn.

Road costs far exceed that. you are overlooking policing and health
costs for a start.

Roads also allow the police to get to burglaries, and for ambulances to
get to patients and hospitals.

Oops!

Well, most of the time...

ALL the time. You're believing the Daily Telegraph again.

Really?

Are you sure?

Would you like me to cite an occasion when an ambulance was prevented
from getting to the hospital in the oddest of circumstances?

Converting Railways To Roads
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 10:19:00 on Sat,
14 May 2016, Robin9 remarked:

Very rarely does anyone quantify the full road costs, but
on the few occasions anyone was so rash, their figures
were quickly disproved. The revenue raised from motorists
goes to the Treasury but local roads are the responsibility
of local councils who have their own revenue streams.

And their revenue stream for Highway maintenance (and even vanity
projects like Busways, new bypasses and new railway stations) comes
mainly from the government.

In Cambridgeshire where Colin and I live, the County's overall
funding comes 46% from council tax payers (£255m) and 54% from
government grants (£294m).

It's difficult to unpick the "roads" budget because - perhaps special
to Cambs - a big chunk is dedicated to cycleways[1] - however the car
related component is around £40m a year; which this year includes
about £10m for the Ely bypass whose main beneficiary is the railways,
and is as far as I can tell almost completely grant-funded, the
county's exposure being limited to the cost of building the business
case.

[1] Which as far as I can see go largely un-used, so it's a waste.

That's a very stupid remark. That cycleways are well used is obvious if you
look at the proportion of cycle commuters to Cambridge, by far the highest
in the UK.

--
Colin Rosenstiel