"Graham Murray" wrote

Roland Perry writes:

As it would be unlikely he was promising to freeze the cost of
outboundary travelcards, those who buy inboundary ones are probably
mainly "Londoners".

Though if the cost of outboundary travelcards increases too much it
could become cheaper to get a 'London Terminals' and use Oyster within
London. More likely to happen if you stay within zones 1&2 or only
travel on busses and trams.

But since you can buy an inboundary TC from a outboundary station or start
using Oyster at any interchange station there will be many options.

--
Mike D

Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

Peter Smyth

In article , (Clive Page)
wrote:

On 09/06/2016 08:08, Mizter T wrote:
Thus for Vauxhall to Westminster, the TfL fare (for travel only on the
Tube) is £2.40 peak or off-peak, or the NR+TfL through fare is £4.10
peak / £3.50 off-peak.

These differences, nearly a factor of 2:1 for peak time travel, are
rather excessive, and I've been caught by them one or twice before.
What I wonder is how do they work it out for journeys which one can
do in any of three ways (TfL only, NR only, and both) where there is
only a common gate-line at each end, for example Farringdon to
Kentish Town?

You sum up rather well why a lot of Londoners, especially in South London,
are so ****ed off with the current fares structure and want Overground (with
TfL fares) extended.

The problem is the Government that won't let the TOCs bring their fares down
to TfL levels.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Graham Murray) wrote:

Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 13:05:11 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, tim... remarked:

His actual words were, apparently "Londoners won't pay a penny more
for their travel in 2020 than they do today."

Oh

"Londoners won't ..."

Does that mean that visitors (including those from the rest of
Britain) will?

As it would be unlikely he was promising to freeze the cost of
outboundary travelcards, those who buy inboundary ones are probably
mainly "Londoners".

Though if the cost of outboundary travelcards increases too much it
could become cheaper to get a 'London Terminals' and use Oyster within
London. More likely to happen if you stay within zones 1&2 or only
travel on busses and trams.

It's already cheaper to use Oyster from many outboundary stations. The
travelcard add-ons vary hugely in price.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Peter Smyth)
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor_s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

Hence my earlier point about the baleful legacy of the Southern Railway for
South London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Peter Smyth wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed plan
to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

On 10/06/2016 18:52, Peter Smyth wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

Peter Smyth

Should they stand by for more of the Livingstonite "supplementary rate"
tactic (charged just as much to Bexley and Bromley residents) in order
to further subsidise fares in the rest of London?

On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:
Peter Smyth wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Did Sadiq ever promise to freeze all fares or only TfL fares? Surely
only the latter, in which case he won't be breaking his promise. He's
a lawyer, so I can't believe he'd promise to freeze something he had
no control over.

The exact wording in the manifesto was:

"I will freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire
scheme for four years"

Strictly speaking you can argue he is meeting that pledge, however he
certainly wasn't going out of his way to point out it would make no
difference to many commuters.

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed plan
to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:

On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Yes, we all know that; but many non-enthusiasts don't.
When such non-enthusiasts are told "you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016" they do not analyse
the small print for weasel escape clauses. They take such
promises at face value, and that was what Sadiq Khan was
counting on.