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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 andTurning South London Orange?
"Wolfgang Schwanke" wrote in message ... I want us to be able to trade with our European neighbours. But I also want us to have absolute control of our borders so we can limit the numbers of non-UK people that we allow in The UK is not in Schengen, so it has control over its borders already. No we don't in Schengen or otherwise, EU rules forbid us from excluding entry for another EU citizen except in very exceptional circumstances. If someone has an EU passport, they are in, end of. The (usual) reasons for wanting to exclude someone: we don't think that you have sufficient means to support yourself whilst here or you are a habitual criminal are not exceptional reasons If it doesn't use that, it's not the EU's fault. It doesn't use it because the right doesn't exist. tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 09:54:57 on Thu, 14 Jul 2016, tim... remarked: I didn't see the picture, so what? I did see all the media coverage of it how does that make me out of touch? As I said before - one picture is worth 1000 words, and you are clearly vastly underestimating its impact on the vote. You have proof of that statement do you? No, I thought not - you made it up. I don't believe for one minute that one poster that was shown for one day made a significant impact on the result. It wasn't just one poster, it was one poster (obviously there were more than one copy of it), but it was single event within the campaign although the press launch just had one on show. And it was all over the media and the biggest story of the day until Jo Cox got murdered. I have already told you that I saw the press stories you cannot make the extrapolation that I didn't understand the issue because none of the news items that I saw included the poster tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"Graham Murray" wrote in message ... bob writes: The difficulty is both EEA and EFTA involve paying money to the EU and accepting free movement of people. An awful lot of people who voted "leave" we're under the impression these were the things they were voting to get rid of, and will be pretty miffed if they are retained. But all we voted for was in/out. It was well known before the referendum vote that should the vote be out, that the terms under which we leave the EU and any subsequent negotiations with both the EU and the rest of the world were unknown. As was the vote to remain Basically the vote to leave was a leap into the unknown. As a vote to remain would be tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"Recliner" wrote in message ... Optimist wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:46:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Optimist wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:29:11 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:11:32 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, Graham Murray remarked: irrespective of the vote the UK will remain a member of the EU for at least 2 years and until we actually leave we will continue to enjoy the benefits, and endure the downsides, of EU membership. I don't think we'll continue to have the benefit of influencing any future EU legislation, including those which will affect us for ever in a "Norway solution". Yes, from now and till the end of 2018 we will continue to bear all the costs of EU membership, but the benefits will dwindle. For example, our participation in new EU funded research projects has already fizzled out, where we were previously disproportionately represented. Then the shortfall should be paid by the UK treasury, and deducted from the amount paid to Brussels. It's not so simple. Countries are not rewarded with research participation based on their EU contributions. They are included because their universities are appropriate participants. We have the best EU universities and so were included disproportionately; now, knowing we will soon be gone, our universities are not considered for inclusion in new EU-funded projects, as their work may not be funded after 2018. Same answer - fund our OWN universities from the amount we pay in EU contributions. Which will cost us more, and exclude us from multi-national EU research projects. You've already said (correctly) that the UK has the best (by a very long way) universities in the EU do you really think that, in the long term, they are going to be excluded from cross country research projects because of some political argy bargy? tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning SouthLondon Orange?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 10:19:40 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, tim... remarked: If, as I fear, Mrs. May is willing to accept free movement in exchange for free access, ISTM that the team she has put in place will not accept this. The EU really has its head in the sand over this. It really does seem to think that we will roll over and ask to have our tummy tickled. The sooner it gets to understand that we wont, the better it will be for everyone (UK/EU/ROW). It really does need to offer sensible concessions on FoM or I think that our negotiators really will walk away. In which case it's "hello WTO". Is that what you want? as per my earlier post: The threat of that solution should make the EU see some sense, as they have as much to lose from that solution as we do. This mantra that they cry "free trade requires free movement" is patent nonsense as they have agreed a free trade agreement with Canada that doesn't have free movement. They are not intrinsically linked in any way at all except in the minds of a few ideological nutcases. The situation has become intolerable for a large percentage of the population. What situation? Influx of immigrants. tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning SouthLondon
wrote in message ... In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 10:19:40 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, tim... remarked: If, as I fear, Mrs. May is willing to accept free movement in exchange for free access, ISTM that the team she has put in place will not accept this. The EU really has its head in the sand over this. It really does seem to think that we will roll over and ask to have our tummy tickled. The sooner it gets to understand that we wont, the better it will be for everyone (UK/EU/ROW). It really does need to offer sensible concessions on FoM or I think that our negotiators really will walk away. In which case it's "hello WTO". Is that what you want? The British sense of imperial entitlement in the Leave campaign was as breathtaking as it is totally unrealistic. I challenge you to come back here in 10 year's time and see if you can still say that The situation has become intolerable for a large percentage of the population. What situation? As they have no idea of reality Who has no idea of reality? For most people their day to day life is realty. They don't care if voting out harms the "city", it isn't their world and they see no connection with it. There is no trickle down to them (as is claimed). All they see is a bunch of over paid ponces taking an unfair share of the cake. As Gove said in his leadership campaign speech (something like) "the rich have taken far too much of the EU wealth", he sees it (and I think so does May). If the "rich" and the city twerps who are now going to be harmed by leaving wanted to avoid that possibility they should have damned well made sure that the wealth was better spread out in the past in order not to find themselves in the position that they now do. But oh no, the greedy buggers just kept it to themselves, demanded that we do what was in their interest, and then complain and insult us because we didn't obey them. As a LD I am really surprised at you can't see that is why it happened that way (even if do you have genuine "Liberal" reasons for wanting to stay in) it is hard to get that. It's hard to get what? People are blaming the other, as ever in history, for the crimes of their own government. So government should have solved the problem then shouldn't it? None of the three parties of power over the past 20 years are innocent here They all conspired in the "keep the bosses happy, **** on the workers" roadmap tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 10:12:20 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, tim... remarked: A recent opinion poll showed about 2 supporting remaining in the single market so why did they vote to leave then? what have they gained if we just sign straight back up to the single market paying in 250 million pounds per week (and getting no subsidies back) Nothing. That's the tragedy. so why did they vote that way then? that was the question tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and
wrote in message ... In article , d () wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 13:31:24 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:12:20 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, tim... remarked: A recent opinion poll showed about 2 supporting remaining in the single market so why did they vote to leave then? what have they gained if we just sign straight back up to the single market paying in 250 million pounds per week (and getting no subsidies back) Nothing. That's the tragedy. Hopefully they'll forget all about the free trade area, we'll pay tarifs and be done with it. I don't want any ties to that corrupt beaurocracy. See you in the dole queue, then. I thought you were retired (or close enough for it not to matter) It's TRADE that pays our wages and pensions. The more the better. The EU is an ever diminishing percentage of World trade. Yes, it's easier to trade with the EU, but it's a dead-end street. To get growth we need to trade with ROW and the vested interests of 27 other counties make signing up trade deals glacial. It won't happen overnight, but the long term trading prospects for the UK should be better off outside, there are plenty of business people on the Leave camp who see it that way, just not the economists who are incapable of looking outside of the model that they have constructed that doesn't model the real business opportunities of leaving (because no-one has done it so there is no data to make the model with). If the UK loses bank passporting then half the London banking business will go Ah, shame! (good to see you admit that it's only half, there are many claiming all, which is utter nonsense) and with it the taxes that pay for our services. well we'll just have to cut down on vanity projects then, wont we? (FTAOD, that includes the unaffordable ever increasing nil-band tax rate, which however socially desirable is a fiscal nonsense) tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:20:54 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:49:33 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, Optimist remarked: Then the shortfall should be paid by the UK treasury, and deducted from the amount paid to Brussels. It's not so simple. Countries are not rewarded with research participation based on their EU contributions. They are included because their universities are appropriate participants. We have the best EU universities and so were included disproportionately; now, knowing we will soon be gone, our universities are not considered for inclusion in new EU-funded projects, as their work may not be funded after 2018. Same answer - fund our OWN universities from the amount we pay in EU contributions. But the whole £350m(sic) has already been promised to the NHS, or was it Cornwall, or perhaps Wales. Our universities are world-class, so it would be foolish of the EU not to co-operate with us as they do with other non-EU countries. If they decide not to, well, we can co-operate with other countries instead, their loss not ours. Regarding NHS expenditure, our EU contributions currently exceed our rebates and grants from the EU by nearly £10billion a year (see section 9.9 of the "pink book" on the ONS website) so when we leave the elected government can decide to spend this as it sees fit, e.g. on the NHS. |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"Optimist" wrote in message
... Leaving the EU will save £10 billion a year net so lack of money need not be an issue. How does that work then? On the assumption that joining eg EFTA will not require a considerable annual contribution from the UK? Seriously? This, in a nutshell, is the outright lie that too many gullible would-be Brexiteers have been sold. If the UK were to have a Norway-style relationship to the EU then the likely annual contribution (on an equivalent per capita basis) would be ca £8B, even assuming that the UK wasn't required to pay some punitive rate. (Plus accepting most, if not all, of the 4 freedoms.) Forgetting about EFTA altogether and regressing to plain WTO arrangements really isn't a viable option either, for anyone with enough patience and interest see eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 andTurning South London Orange?
"Wolfgang Schwanke" wrote in message ... "tim..." wrote in : in Schengen or otherwise, EU rules forbid us from excluding entry for another EU citizen except in very exceptional circumstances. There are exceptions. After the eastern countries joined the EU, there were agreements that the right of their citizens to settle down in certain western countries was limited for a number of years. That period has long gone It is now an irrelevance They could freely come as tourists, but not as workers. As far as I know the UK did not take part in that agreement, so for example Poles had full rights to settle down in the UK from the start, but not for example in Germany. That is a decision the UK made. Agreed, but it is not the current problem It is a dead parrot of an argument (5 minutes or the full hour) tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:35:32 +0100, "JohnD" wrote:
"Optimist" wrote in message .. . Leaving the EU will save £10 billion a year net so lack of money need not be an issue. How does that work then? On the assumption that joining eg EFTA will not require a considerable annual contribution from the UK? Seriously? This, in a nutshell, is the outright lie that too many gullible would-be Brexiteers have been sold. If the UK were to have a Norway-style relationship to the EU then the likely annual contribution (on an equivalent per capita basis) would be ca £8B, even assuming that the UK wasn't required to pay some punitive rate. (Plus accepting most, if not all, of the 4 freedoms.) Forgetting about EFTA altogether and regressing to plain WTO arrangements really isn't a viable option either, for anyone with enough patience and interest see eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee Why a Norway-style arrangement? Much better is we get tariff-free access to EU market in return for tariff-free access to UK market. No freedom of movement, no subsidies to EU. If EU does not agree, WTO tariffs apply. German industrialists and French farmers would be up in arms, so EU will cave in. If not, tough, EU dole queues get longer. Meanwhile UK negotiates trade deals with rest of world (there have been approaches already). UK wins. |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"Optimist" wrote in message
... Why a Norway-style arrangement? Much better is we get tariff-free access to EU market in return for tariff-free access to UK market. No freedom of movement, no subsidies to EU. If EU does not agree, WTO tariffs apply. German industrialists and French farmers would be up in arms, so EU will cave in. If not, tough, EU dole queues get longer. Meanwhile UK negotiates trade deals with rest of world (there have been approaches already). UK wins. ========= Dream on - hope you enjoy your make-believe world. |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 andTurning South London Orange?
Optimist wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:35:32 +0100, "JohnD" wrote: "Optimist" wrote in message ... Leaving the EU will save £10 billion a year net so lack of money need not be an issue. How does that work then? On the assumption that joining eg EFTA will not require a considerable annual contribution from the UK? Seriously? This, in a nutshell, is the outright lie that too many gullible would-be Brexiteers have been sold. If the UK were to have a Norway-style relationship to the EU then the likely annual contribution (on an equivalent per capita basis) would be ca £8B, even assuming that the UK wasn't required to pay some punitive rate. (Plus accepting most, if not all, of the 4 freedoms.) Forgetting about EFTA altogether and regressing to plain WTO arrangements really isn't a viable option either, for anyone with enough patience and interest see eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee Why a Norway-style arrangement? Much better is we get tariff-free access to EU market in return for tariff-free access to UK market. No freedom of movement, no subsidies to EU. Almost certainly the rEU won't go for that. If EU does not agree, WTO tariffs apply. German industrialists and French farmers would be up in arms, so EU will cave in. If not, tough, EU dole queues get longer. Meanwhile UK negotiates trade deals with rest of world (there have been approaches already). When was the last time the UK negotiated a trade deal? The various countries of the world are queueing up to screw over a desperate Britain that needs trade deals fast and has no experience at how to negotiate them. Robin |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning SouthLondon
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 17:15:12 -0500
wrote: In article , d () wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 13:31:24 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:12:20 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, tim... remarked: A recent opinion poll showed about 2 supporting remaining in the single market so why did they vote to leave then? what have they gained if we just sign straight back up to the single market paying in 250 million pounds per week (and getting no subsidies back) Nothing. That's the tragedy. Hopefully they'll forget all about the free trade area, we'll pay tarifs and be done with it. I don't want any ties to that corrupt beaurocracy. See you in the dole queue, then. It's TRADE that pays our wages and pensions. The more the better. You do realise we already trade with countries outside the EU? If the UK loses bank passporting then half the London banking business will go and with it the taxes that pay for our services. We'll see. -- Spud |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:43:27 +0200
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote: wrote in : Not to mention the dire warnings about the collapse of the pound. No-one has warned that. If anything, the Euro is in danger of collapse, as it depends on the functioning of the EU institutions. Any exit puts those potentially in peril. Also ironically Osborne only last year was suggesting that perhaps it would be good if the pound did drop to aid exports. It's not as simple, there are winners and losers. A drop of your local currency is good for companies who sell abroad, but bad for conumsers. Its about time a brake was put on consumer society. People by way too much crap they don't need, most of which eventually ends up in landfill. -- Spud |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"JohnD" wrote in message ... "Optimist" wrote in message ... Why a Norway-style arrangement? Much better is we get tariff-free access to EU market in return for tariff-free access to UK market. No freedom of movement, no subsidies to EU. If EU does not agree, WTO tariffs apply. German industrialists and French farmers would be up in arms, so EU will cave in. If not, tough, EU dole queues get longer. Meanwhile UK negotiates trade deals with rest of world (there have been approaches already). UK wins. ========= Dream on - hope you enjoy your make-believe world. You can dis it as much as you like, you have to live in it too now. If you don't engage with the process you will get the worst of all worlds tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"bob" wrote in message ... Optimist wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:35:32 +0100, "JohnD" wrote: "Optimist" wrote in message ... Leaving the EU will save £10 billion a year net so lack of money need not be an issue. How does that work then? On the assumption that joining eg EFTA will not require a considerable annual contribution from the UK? Seriously? This, in a nutshell, is the outright lie that too many gullible would-be Brexiteers have been sold. If the UK were to have a Norway-style relationship to the EU then the likely annual contribution (on an equivalent per capita basis) would be ca £8B, even assuming that the UK wasn't required to pay some punitive rate. (Plus accepting most, if not all, of the 4 freedoms.) Forgetting about EFTA altogether and regressing to plain WTO arrangements really isn't a viable option either, for anyone with enough patience and interest see eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee Why a Norway-style arrangement? Much better is we get tariff-free access to EU market in return for tariff-free access to UK market. No freedom of movement, no subsidies to EU. Almost certainly the rEU won't go for that. If EU does not agree, WTO tariffs apply. German industrialists and French farmers would be up in arms, so EU will cave in. If not, tough, EU dole queues get longer. Meanwhile UK negotiates trade deals with rest of world (there have been approaches already). When was the last time the UK negotiated a trade deal? as the 5th largest economy in the world, with the second best range of universities in the world (and the best in Europe) with one of the top 5 destinations in the world that "elites" want to live in, why do you think that we wont easily be able to employ the world's best The various countries of the world are queueing up to screw over a desperate Britain that needs trade deals fast and has no experience at how to negotiate them. Just how hard is it to make sure that a deal is equitable before signing? tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning SouthLondon
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London
wrote in message ... In article , (tim...) wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message al-september.org... Optimist wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:46:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Optimist wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:29:11 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:11:32 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, Graham Murray remarked: irrespective of the vote the UK will remain a member of the EU for at least 2 years and until we actually leave we will continue to enjoy the benefits, and endure the downsides, of EU membership. I don't think we'll continue to have the benefit of influencing any future EU legislation, including those which will affect us for ever in a "Norway solution". Yes, from now and till the end of 2018 we will continue to bear all the costs of EU membership, but the benefits will dwindle. For example, our participation in new EU funded research projects has already fizzled out, where we were previously disproportionately represented. Then the shortfall should be paid by the UK treasury, and deducted from the amount paid to Brussels. It's not so simple. Countries are not rewarded with research participation based on their EU contributions. They are included because their universities are appropriate participants. We have the best EU universities and so were included disproportionately; now, knowing we will soon be gone, our universities are not considered for inclusion in new EU-funded projects, as their work may not be funded after 2018. Same answer - fund our OWN universities from the amount we pay in EU contributions. Which will cost us more, and exclude us from multi-national EU research projects. You've already said (correctly) that the UK has the best (by a very long way) universities in the EU do you really think that, in the long term, they are going to be excluded from cross country research projects because of some political argy bargy? Yes. You just don't understand what the lack of free movement means in terms of the hassle involved in getting people from abroad involved, do you? Instead of just working with the best people in the field you have to jump through so many hoops that most people won't bother. Look at the situation 40 years ago. Sharing a research project between counties does not mean that people have to go and live in the other country involved They work in their home laboratory and communicate using modern methods of communications (that didn't exist or were prohibitively expensive/unreliable 40 years ago) and attend the occasional conference/meeting. what's so hard? I don't for one minute believe that the result of us leaving the EU will require any paperwork at all for people to go on holiday/attend business meetings. It's nonsense. tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning SouthLondon Orange?
"Robin9" wrote in message ... Neil Williams;156835 Wrote: On 2016-07-15 08:29:59 +0000, Robin9 said: - Her choices are limited. As the SNP will try to block Brexit in Parliament, and will receive much support from the Liberal Democrats and many Labour MPs, at some stage Mrs. May will have to repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act and call a general election. She will then have a commanding majority in The House but most of her back-benchers will be strongly opposed to free movement.- Whyever do you think that? Parliament is quite heavily pro-European. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. Because, with the Labour Party is its present state, the Tories would win with a huge majority. Tory Party activists will make quite sure that most new Members will be opposed to free movement. If there is a snap election "tomorrow" I doubt that Tory members will have any influence at all over the chosen candidates, there simply isn't the time The balance of power in Parliament will be changed enormously. You may be right. Personally I can't see too many of these seats that Labour are likely to lose changing hands to the Tories. UKIP are going to sweep them up. Though I suspect my prediction is not going to be tested (it's only for valid now, don't extrapolate it to 2020 - yet. A week is a long time in politics a lot will change by then, for good or bad). tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"tim..." writes:
as the 5th largest economy in the world, with the second best range of universities in the world (and the best in Europe) with one of the top 5 destinations in the world that "elites" want to live in, why do you think that we wont easily be able to employ the world's best Prof X (of foreign university) applies for UK visa. Home Office: Sorry Prof X, we have filled our quota of workers of your category, and we do not consider you a special case. |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 andTurning South London Orange?
tim... wrote:
"bob" wrote in message ... Optimist wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:35:32 +0100, "JohnD" wrote: "Optimist" wrote in message ... Leaving the EU will save £10 billion a year net so lack of money need not be an issue. How does that work then? On the assumption that joining eg EFTA will not require a considerable annual contribution from the UK? Seriously? This, in a nutshell, is the outright lie that too many gullible would-be Brexiteers have been sold. If the UK were to have a Norway-style relationship to the EU then the likely annual contribution (on an equivalent per capita basis) would be ca £8B, even assuming that the UK wasn't required to pay some punitive rate. (Plus accepting most, if not all, of the 4 freedoms.) Forgetting about EFTA altogether and regressing to plain WTO arrangements really isn't a viable option either, for anyone with enough patience and interest see eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...sury-committee Why a Norway-style arrangement? Much better is we get tariff-free access to EU market in return for tariff-free access to UK market. No freedom of movement, no subsidies to EU. Almost certainly the rEU won't go for that. If EU does not agree, WTO tariffs apply. German industrialists and French farmers would be up in arms, so EU will cave in. If not, tough, EU dole queues get longer. Meanwhile UK negotiates trade deals with rest of world (there have been approaches already). When was the last time the UK negotiated a trade deal? as the 5th largest economy in the world, with the second best range of universities in the world (and the best in Europe) with one of the top 5 destinations in the world that "elites" want to live in, why do you think that we wont easily be able to employ the world's best Because the recruiting and organisation of a trade negotiating team is something that will be arranged and co-ordinated by Whitehall's finest, by a bunch of people who have never undertaken a large scale trade negotiation before. I think it will take more time and experience to get a good team together to do this kind of task than we have. The various countries of the world are queueing up to screw over a desperate Britain that needs trade deals fast and has no experience at how to negotiate them. Just how hard is it to make sure that a deal is equitable before signing? It took Canada something like 9 years to negotiate the current trade deal that is still being ratified and has a lot of problems. If we're starting from a position of no experience and organisational expertise in the field, trying to negotiate as many deals as we can in parallel as quickly as we can, there is a high risk of us making errors when faced by opponents in such negotiations with none of these problems. Robin |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"tim..." wrote in message ...
Dream on - hope you enjoy your make-believe world. You can dis it as much as you like, you have to live in it too now. If you don't engage with the process you will get the worst of all worlds ============== That's a bunch of non-sequiturs: To start with, I can hope that it never happens. Even if the Article 50 trigger is eventually pulled (which is in some doubt), there's all sorts of reasons for believing that any notional settlement will be put back to the people, whether that be by way of another referendum, a general election, a judicial review or whatever. Even if it's not, then I have enough pension and means to ensure that it won't impact me anything like as adversely as it will the millions of other rUK citizens. It _will_ be a different story once inflation starts to bite, external investment dries up taking a lot of jobs with it, taxes have to rise etc. I don't need to 'engage with the process' in the slightest - I've got the luxury of being able to highlight the sheer stupidity and pointlessness of this reckless endeavour at every opportunity. The war has only just begun. |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"Graham Murray" wrote in message ... "tim..." writes: as the 5th largest economy in the world, with the second best range of universities in the world (and the best in Europe) with one of the top 5 destinations in the world that "elites" want to live in, why do you think that we wont easily be able to employ the world's best Prof X (of foreign university) applies for UK visa. Home Office: Sorry Prof X, we have filled our quota of workers of your category, and we do not consider you a special case. As HMG are specifically looking for international trade negotiators why the hell would we not consider them a special case? tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 19:34:09 +0100, Graham Murray
wrote: "tim..." writes: as the 5th largest economy in the world, with the second best range of universities in the world (and the best in Europe) with one of the top 5 destinations in the world that "elites" want to live in, why do you think that we wont easily be able to employ the world's best Prof X (of foreign university) applies for UK visa. Home Office: Sorry Prof X, we have filled our quota of workers of your category, and we do not consider you a special case. http://www.burnabynow.com/news/educa...eave-1.2297619 |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"JohnD" wrote in message ... "tim..." wrote in message ... Dream on - hope you enjoy your make-believe world. You can dis it as much as you like, you have to live in it too now. If you don't engage with the process you will get the worst of all worlds ============== That's a bunch of non-sequiturs: To start with, I can hope that it never happens. Even if the Article 50 trigger is eventually pulled (which is in some doubt), I don't think it is, that's wishful thinking there's all sorts of reasons for believing that any notional settlement will be put back to the people, whether that be by way of another referendum, a general election, a judicial review or whatever. That's even more wishful, triggering Article 50 is unstoppable. Once it's done we are OUT (eventually), putting the final deal to a referendum does not give us an "Oh we don't want to leave now" option. The only way we get that option is if the EU offer us a deal to stay in before we trigger Article 50. That looks very unlikely to happen. Even if it's not, then I have enough pension and means to ensure that it won't impact me anything like as adversely as it will the millions of other rUK citizens. It _will_ be a different story once inflation starts to bite, external investment dries up taking a lot of jobs with it, taxes have to rise etc. I don't need to 'engage with the process' in the slightest - I've got the luxury of being able to highlight the sheer stupidity and pointlessness of this reckless endeavour at every opportunity. The war has only just begun. But fighting this unnecessary "war" harms the very people above that you seem to care about (that's people in general, not anyone specific) If you are personally disinterested than that's fine, but don't disadvantage others by fighting a war that you don't care about tim |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London
In article , (tim...)
wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim...) wrote: You've already said (correctly) that the UK has the best (by a very long way) universities in the EU do you really think that, in the long term, they are going to be excluded from cross country research projects because of some political argy bargy? Yes. You just don't understand what the lack of free movement means in terms of the hassle involved in getting people from abroad involved, do you? Instead of just working with the best people in the field you have to jump through so many hoops that most people won't bother. Look at the situation 40 years ago. Sharing a research project between counties does not mean that people have to go and live in the other country involved They work in their home laboratory and communicate using modern methods of communications (that didn't exist or were prohibitively expensive/unreliable 40 years ago) and attend the occasional conference/meeting. what's so hard? I don't for one minute believe that the result of us leaving the EU will require any paperwork at all for people to go on holiday/attend business meetings. It's nonsense. More Brexit fantasies! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 andTurningSouth London Orange?
On 16/07/2016 07:32, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
The UK is not in Schengen, so it has control over its borders already. If it doesn't use that, it's not the EU's fault. Only in respect of non-EU nationals - the UK has no border controls for EU nationals. Colin |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
"tim..." wrote in message ...
But fighting this unnecessary "war" harms the very people above that you seem to care about (that's people in general, not anyone specific) If you are personally disinterested than that's fine, but don't disadvantage others by fighting a war that you don't care about ======================================== Who said I don't care? I care passionately as it happens - I really do not want to see this country destroyed, which is effectively the aim of the Brexiteers, whether they realise it or not. Personally I regard the main Brexiteer fraudsters as guilty of high treason - I'd have them in the Tower now if I had my way. So I will personally be fighting the war at every possible turn, whether that requires financial support or whatever. It's an existential crisis for the UK and I'll do my utmost to try to ensure that it survives in a viable state. |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning SouthLondon
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
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Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and TurningSouth London Orange?
On 2016\07\16 21:12, JohnD wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message ... But fighting this unnecessary "war" harms the very people above that you seem to care about (that's people in general, not anyone specific) If you are personally disinterested than that's fine, but don't disadvantage others by fighting a war that you don't care about ======================================== Who said I don't care? I care passionately as it happens - I really do not want to see this country destroyed, which is effectively the aim of the Brexiteers, whether they realise it or not. Personally I regard the main Brexiteer fraudsters as guilty of high treason - I'd have them in the Tower now if I had my way. So I will personally be fighting the war at every possible turn, whether that requires financial support or whatever. It's an existential crisis for the UK and I'll do my utmost to try to ensure that it survives in a viable state. The Doublethink in this one is strong! |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 andTurning South London Orange?
Optimist wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:20:54 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 15:49:33 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, Optimist remarked: Then the shortfall should be paid by the UK treasury, and deducted from the amount paid to Brussels. It's not so simple. Countries are not rewarded with research participation based on their EU contributions. They are included because their universities are appropriate participants. We have the best EU universities and so were included disproportionately; now, knowing we will soon be gone, our universities are not considered for inclusion in new EU-funded projects, as their work may not be funded after 2018. Same answer - fund our OWN universities from the amount we pay in EU contributions. But the whole £350m(sic) has already been promised to the NHS, or was it Cornwall, or perhaps Wales. Our universities are world-class, so it would be foolish of the EU not to co-operate with us as they do with other non-EU countries. If they decide not to, well, we can co-operate with other countries instead, their loss not ours. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/16/research-funding-hit-by-brexit-vote |
Will Brexit lead to the abandonment of Crossrail2 and Turning South London Orange?
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 00:07:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
Optimist wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:20:54 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 15:49:33 on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, Optimist remarked: Then the shortfall should be paid by the UK treasury, and deducted from the amount paid to Brussels. It's not so simple. Countries are not rewarded with research participation based on their EU contributions. They are included because their universities are appropriate participants. We have the best EU universities and so were included disproportionately; now, knowing we will soon be gone, our universities are not considered for inclusion in new EU-funded projects, as their work may not be funded after 2018. Same answer - fund our OWN universities from the amount we pay in EU contributions. But the whole £350m(sic) has already been promised to the NHS, or was it Cornwall, or perhaps Wales. Our universities are world-class, so it would be foolish of the EU not to co-operate with us as they do with other non-EU countries. If they decide not to, well, we can co-operate with other countries instead, their loss not ours. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/16/research-funding-hit-by-brexit-vote The fact is the hundreds of millions of pounds supposedly from the EU are provided by UK taxpayers in the first place. So, if they axe a grant, UK can pay it directly instead and deduct the amount from what is given to Brussels. Typical Guardian doom-mongering. |
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