In message , at 03:53:11
on Wed, 20 Jul 2016, remarked:

Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5
with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London.

Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns
out in reality that it isn't.

But I'm discussing Euro 5.

Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller.

The various NOx limits a

Euro 3 Jan 2000 500
Euro 4 Jan 2005 250
Euro 5 Sept 2009 180
Euro 6 Sept 2014 80

Thus Euro 4 was fairly short lived.

Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during
the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my
understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing
issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target
during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every
model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while
also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole
range.

The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated
much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3 instead
of half the level.

Yes, that's to be expected, because the Euro tests don't reproduce real
life driving conditions.

in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean
up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high.

I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars
getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the
buses?

and taxis/hire cars.

Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5?

All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now
they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or
hybrids, for new saloons at least.

Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the
Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge?

Dunno. Strictly speaking, City Council control of taxis doesn't extend
beyond the city boundary. I read that the present approach is to encourage
adoption of some electric vehicles in what will always be a mixed fleet.

All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city
centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their
responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act.

Different transponders for different classes of emissions?
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 03:53:11 -0500
wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:
Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during
the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my
understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing
issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target
during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every
model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while
also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole
range.

The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated
much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3 instead
of half the level.

Hardly surprising. Unless you use a NOx capture system such as adblue then
low NOx = higher CO2 and vice versa due to the conflicting demands of cylinder
temperatures required. Drivers don't notice NOx emissions but they do notice
rubbish fuel economy so no car company that wanted to stay in business would
sacrifice fuel economy for NOx so they make sure of low NOx figures during the
test and high everywhere else. And TBH , CO2 is a lot more important than
NOx anyway in the medium and long term.

All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city
centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their
responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act.

Its all stick and no carrot isn't it with people like you. If car drivers
arn't allowed to use a road they've legally paid to use then they the council
should offer some sort of road tax refund or provide free park and ride
services.

--
Spud

On 2016-07-20 08:53:11 +0000, said:

Dunno. Strictly speaking, City Council control of taxis doesn't extend
beyond the city boundary. I read that the present approach is to encourage
adoption of some electric vehicles in what will always be a mixed fleet.

In any case, private taxis going to/from airports a long way out of
London that have viable[1] public transport services is hardly to be
encouraged.

[1] Yes, I know, GTR...

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 10:49:40 on Wed, 20
Jul 2016, Neil Williams remarked:
Dunno. Strictly speaking, City Council control of taxis doesn't extend
beyond the city boundary. I read that the present approach is to encourage
adoption of some electric vehicles in what will always be a mixed fleet.

In any case, private taxis going to/from airports a long way out of
London that have viable[1] public transport services is hardly to be
encouraged.

To continue that "viability" test, where train services fall down most
badly is getting people to and from the early and late flights, which
are so commonplace in the lost cost and charter airline industries.
--
Roland Perry

On 2016\07\20 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:

Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow
or Gatwick run on one charge?

LOL. London taxis get rides to Salisbury, Liverpool, Sheffield or Hull
with zero warning in advance.

On 2016-07-20 10:09:30 +0000, Roland Perry said:

To continue that "viability" test, where train services fall down most
badly is getting people to and from the early and late flights, which
are so commonplace in the lost cost and charter airline industries.

This is very true when not travelling to/from Central London. Most of
these London taxis of the kind which would be low-range electric cars
are going to be operating in Central London.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 12:01:31 on Wed, 20
Jul 2016, Neil Williams remarked:

To continue that "viability" test, where train services fall down
most badly is getting people to and from the early and late flights,
which are so commonplace in the lost cost and charter airline industries.

This is very true when not travelling to/from Central London.

I used to live inside the M25 and I couldn't get the first train and
arrive at Waterloo (same line) in time for the first Eurostar of the
day.
--
Roland Perry

In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 03:53:11 -0500
wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:
Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during
the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my
understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing
issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target
during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every
model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while
also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole
range.

The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated
much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3
instead of half the level.

Hardly surprising. Unless you use a NOx capture system such as adblue then
low NOx = higher CO2 and vice versa due to the conflicting demands of
cylinder temperatures required. Drivers don't notice NOx emissions but
they do notice rubbish fuel economy so no car company that wanted to stay
in business would sacrifice fuel economy for NOx so they make sure of low
NOx figures during the test and high everywhere else. And TBH , CO2 is a
lot more important than NOx anyway in the medium and long term.

All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city
centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their
responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act.

Its all stick and no carrot isn't it with people like you. If car drivers
arn't allowed to use a road they've legally paid to use then they the
council should offer some sort of road tax refund or provide free park and
ride services.

The roads in question, as Roland knows but perhaps you don't, are very
restricted for car access and have been for nearly 20 years. Access is
maintained though. Most of the emissions are from buses and taxis as I said.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
03:53:11 on Wed, 20 Jul 2016, remarked:

All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city
centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their
responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act.

Different transponders for different classes of emissions?

A. Transponders are obsolete technology which is no longer obtainable so
future enforcement will be by ANPR. In any case they are logically the same.
Each is an identifying number with certain numbers permitted and others
barred.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

On 2016\07\20 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:

Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow
or Gatwick run on one charge?

LOL. London taxis get rides to Salisbury, Liverpool, Sheffield or
Hull with zero warning in advance.

Unlike London, Cambridge does not have a uniform taxi fleet. So there is
room for petrol and diesel vehicles as well as electric, together with
saloons and vans/London-type cabs.

--
Colin Rosenstiel