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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 2016-07-14, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-07-14 08:26:59 +0000, d said: The german stores, particularly Lidl remind me of UK supermarkets in the 1970s. Slightly shabby and with vacuum packed produce that looks about as natural as an essex blonde. And small enough that you can get round in 20 minutes. Though FWIW I've given up supermarket shopping - delivery is a wonderful thing. Which is kind-of going full circle back to the time before there even *were* supermarkets. well that reminds me that in the late 50's I did a grocers round on what was then a brand new trade bike, fantastic, much better paid than a paper round and tips galore, I was better off then than when I left school a few years later... Neil -- Martin |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:18:25 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: No more are to be ordered, but I think the last order, placed this January, is still being built. At least the last batch have cleaner Euro 6 engines. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...d-of-boris-bus They've had euro6 engines since LT 273 was delivered. In the first 272 buses there were also six trial euro6 equipped LTs. The extra batch of 195 may or may not be in build. We are at the point of annual factory holidays and the buses up to LT805 have arrived. I understand Wrights will be decommissioning one of the two production lines so the rate of deliveries will slow somewhat - 141 due up to March 2016 and the balance of 54 in financial year 2017/18 (starts April 2017). March 2016 or 2017? The latter I assume. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:43:09 +0100
Guy Gorton wrote: On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 08:28:10 +0000 (UTC), d wrote: On that subject I'm not entirely sure why successive mayors have never even considered trolley buses, at least in part like in Boston where its electric part of the way and a diesel engine takes over where the wires stop. Seems to me it would be a perfect solution for central london. I have been to Boston but not recently. Is it still, like most places in the USA,, cluttered with overhead wiring? Don't know, I haven't been there since the 90s. I just read about their hybrid trolleybus system. Seemed like a good solution to the problems of pollution in central london to me. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 14:40:50 on Thu, 14 Jul
2016, Roland Perry remarked: In Ely the Tesco only has canned/bottled/packaged-dry-goods in the Polish aisle. You would probably have to go to one of the specialist corner shops for fresh produce from Poland. And Aldi has a lot of German-influenced (but still plastic packaged) produce. I'm not sure which category you think cooked meat (including sausages) comes in. Plastic packaged fresh produce. I think Tesco might have tinned 'hot-dog' type sausages. But nothing else that would qualify as "produce" (fresh or otherwise). I had a look yesterday, and they don't have tinned sausages. The closest to fresh produce is tinfoil foil packed sliced ham (a very small package presumably for making one sandwich), what looks a lot like a Polish version of Spam, and several types of tinned fish. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:50:01 +0200
Robin9 wrote: ;156820 Wrote: Don't know, I haven't been there since the 90s. I just read about their hybrid trolleybus system. Seemed like a good solution to the problems of pollution in central london to me. -- Spud It is a good solution - or, at least, partial solution - but it's different, original and not part of the stultifying orthodoxy London politicians adhere to. Don't expect people like Khan and Shawcross to embrace any idea that does not involve blaming everything on the motorist. Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills in London when if you look at the average central london traffic jam it usually consists of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the **** and simply a cynical money raising scheme. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:50:01 +0200 Robin9 wrote: d;156820 Wrote: Don't know, I haven't been there since the 90s. I just read about their hybrid trolleybus system. Seemed like a good solution to the problems of pollution in central london to me. -- Spud It is a good solution - or, at least, partial solution - but it's different, original and not part of the stultifying orthodoxy London politicians adhere to. Don't expect people like Khan and Shawcross to embrace any idea that does not involve blaming everything on the motorist. Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills in London when if you look at the average central london traffic jam it usually consists of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the **** and simply a cynical money raising scheme. I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...zone-pollution |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:14:57 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills in London when if you look at the average central london traffic jam it usually consists of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the **** and simply a cynical money raising scheme. I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-double-size-l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul
2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-double-size-l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...to-double-size l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee. I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply dump the lot and ask him to rethink. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , d ()
wrote: On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-to-double-s ize-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee. I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply dump the lot and ask him to rethink. Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems more reasonable than some taxes. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
d wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:14:57 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills in London when if you look at the average central london traffic jam it usually consists of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the **** and simply a cynical money raising scheme. I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-double-size-l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! Under the current plans, residents will have an extra 3 years (until 2023) to comply with the emissions standards. Peter Smyth |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:46:42 -0500
wrote: In article , d () wrote: On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-to-double-s ize-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee. I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply dump the lot and ask him to rethink. Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems more reasonable than some taxes. While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016 Lambo isn't going to be affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a 2000 micra will be. Its disgusting. Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 21:32:11 -0000 (UTC)
"Peter Smyth" wrote: wrote: On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:14:57 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Yes, it seems car drivers seem to be the cause of all traffic ills in London when if you look at the average central london traffic jam it usually consists of buses, taxis & minicabs. Which is probably why Kahn wants to extend the congestion charge to the north circular (hopefully exclusive, not inclusive). I have no problem restricting cars in the central area, but taking it that far out is just taking the **** and simply a cynical money raising scheme. I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-double-size-l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! Under the current plans, residents will have an extra 3 years (until 2023) to comply with the emissions standards. 3 years to save up for a new , or at least slightly less old car. Just what people need when they're already struggling to make ends meet. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...to-double-size l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. I've got a car from 06, it's worth perhaps 1200 pounds. how much cheaper than that do you expect to get (and still get a car that reliably starts every time you want it to?) tim |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:20:29 +0100
"tim..." wrote: wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...n-to-double-si e l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. I've got a car from 06, it's worth perhaps 1200 pounds. how much cheaper than that do you expect to get (and still get a car that reliably starts every time you want it to?) If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates. Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:20:29 +0100 "tim..." wrote: wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...n-to-double-si e l ndons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. I've got a car from 06, it's worth perhaps 1200 pounds. how much cheaper than that do you expect to get (and still get a car that reliably starts every time you want it to?) If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates. Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles. I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely diesels. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:33:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates. Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles. I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely diesels. Is it only diesels? Yes, there will be fewer of them about except for transits which seem to go on forever. Will be interesting to see if Kahn intends to apply this rule to buses, some of which are knocking on a bit out in the suburbs where old buses go to die. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , d () wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:46:42 -0500 wrote: In article , () wrote: On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...han-to-double- size-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee. I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply dump the lot and ask him to rethink. Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems more reasonable than some taxes. While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016 Lambo isn't going to be affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a 2000 micra will be. Its disgusting. Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be better off health-wise. Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old petrol-engined car as I have. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:33:33 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates. Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles. I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely diesels. Is it only diesels? Yes, there will be fewer of them about except for transits which seem to go on forever. Much newer diesels than petrol-engined cars will be subject to the charge: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle?intcmp=32646#on-this-page-2 Will be interesting to see if Kahn intends to apply this rule to buses, some of which are knocking on a bit out in the suburbs where old buses go to die. Just curious, why do you call him "Kahn"? Yes, coaches TfL buses are also affected: Quote: "By 2020, all double-decker TfL buses operating in central London will be hybrid and all single-decker buses will be zero emission (at point of use). This means a substantial number of double-decker buses operating in inner London will be hybrid, as will many in outer London We will progressively increase the number of these buses. From 2020 only buses of this type will be allowed to operate on routes in the ULEZ" |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
wrote:
In article , d () wrote: On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:46:42 -0500 wrote: In article , d () wrote: On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:56:07 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:01:36 on Sat, 16 Jul 2016, d remarked: I thought Khan only wanted to extend the clean air zone to the north and south circulars, not the cc zone: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...han-to-double- size-londons-clean-air-zone-pollution Thats even worse since anyone who lives inside the north circ and has a car older than 10 years (I think) won't be able to drive it! It's a fee for any diesel that doesn't meet the emission standards introduced ten years ago. Older ones might, if the manufacturers fitted a compliant engine earlier than absolutely necessary. There are a lot of cars owned by people living in inner london that are more than 10 years old, usually because they can't afford a newer one. So all Kahns policy will achieve is to push the lesser well off off the roads if they can't afford his tax. Sorry, fee. I imagine if it is introduced the fines will simply be ignored and the courts will end up with a backlog of so many cases they'll simply dump the lot and ask him to rethink. Since they're also the main victims of the excessive pollution, it seems more reasonable than some taxes. While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016 Lambo isn't going to be affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a 2000 micra will be. Its disgusting. Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be better off health-wise. Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old petrol-engined car as I have. It does apply to petrol as well, but only on much older vehicles. In 2020, the many five-year-old diesel cars will be subject to the tax, but only 14-year-old petrol cars (of which not many remain on the roads). |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message
-septe mber.org, at 10:44:08 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, Recliner remarked: Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old petrol-engined car as I have. It does apply to petrol as well, but only on much older vehicles. In 2020, the many five-year-old diesel cars will be subject to the tax, but only 14-year-old petrol cars (of which not many remain on the roads). Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later would have a sufficiently clean engine. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 2016-07-18 11:09:44 +0000, Roland Perry said:
Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later would have a sufficiently clean engine. He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels - you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a year or so. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
I've got a fairly-new Volkswagen for sale. It gives zero-emissions.
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 05:29:11 -0500
wrote: In article , d () wrote: Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be better off health-wise. Yes, but there are better ways of doing it than suddenly imposing a tax. They could say that your *current* car won't be taxed no matter what its age, but when you buy your next one *that* will be unless it meets XYZ regulations. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:37:25 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:33:33 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: If someone is on minium wage then 1200 quid is a lot of money. Why do you think there's such a big market for few hundred quid bangers? Drive around some of the poorer areas of London and note the years on the reg plates. Even in my normal middle class street there are quite a few pre 2000 vehicles. I think it's only old diesels that are affected. Small old cars are rarely diesels. Is it only diesels? Yes, there will be fewer of them about except for transits which seem to go on forever. Much newer diesels than petrol-engined cars will be subject to the charge: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...our-vehicle?in cmp=32646#on-this-page-2 Thats the current low emissions zone. Who knows what the rules will be for the extended one out to the north circ if he goes ahead with it. Will be interesting to see if Kahn intends to apply this rule to buses, some of which are knocking on a bit out in the suburbs where old buses go to die. Just curious, why do you call him "Kahn"? Kahn, Khan, who cares, he's a prick however you spell his name. Anyway, its probably because that maker of bling range rovers is spelt k-a-h-n and thats the only other one I know. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 10:44:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: It does apply to petrol as well, but only on much older vehicles. In 2020, the many five-year-old diesel cars will be subject to the tax, but only 14-year-old petrol cars (of which not many remain on the roads). I forsee a large increase in the number of right hand drive bulgarian and romanian registered cars on the roads in london. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 13:06:05 on Mon, 18
Jul 2016, Neil Williams remarked: Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later would have a sufficiently clean engine. He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels - you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a year or so. Mine is Euro 4 (2005 on), and I thought they wanted to discourage anything that wasn't at least Euro 5 (2009 onwards). The goalposts have moved to Euro 6? (2014 on). -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 16:29:07 +0100
David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 08:47:47AM +0000, d wrote: The few times we tried it it actually took longer to shop online than actually do it in the shop. I don't see how that is even possible. I just add items to my shopping basket whenever I'm close to running out of them. That takes about as long as writing them on a shopping list would. My supermarket is a 3 min walk away. I know exactly where everything is and I can go around in about 5-10 mins. Meanwhile, in a sodding web browser: click-click-where-is-it-click-click- click-oh-ffs-do-I-want-this-click-click-browser-hangs-click etc etc rinse and repeat. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 05:29:11 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, remarked: While I'll agree something needs to be done about the pollution in London, essentially outlawing cars that that will affect the less well off is not the way to do it. The millionaire in his 8mpg 2016 Lambo isn't going to be affected but the single mum in a low paid job (for example) driving a 2000 micra will be. Its disgusting. Still, Labour have been showing their disdain for the working classes for years so I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. If the pollution is reduced then the residents, even the poor ones, will be better off health-wise. Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old petrol-engined car as I have. The problem with that is they tend to be gas guzzlers. I swapped my 2001 petrol car for a 2005 diesel last year and literally doubled the MPG (same size engine and a slightly bigger vehicle). Not an entirely fare comparison. Diesel is denser than petrol, so a gallon of diesel will emit more CO2 than a gallon of petrol. There's also the issue that Diesel engines produce significantly more of the types of emissions that are directly harmful to human health in an urban environment, namely particulates and NOx. Diesel engines burn with a diffusion flame in excess air while petrol engines burn with a premixed flame in roughly stoichiometric air/fuel conditions. The diffusion flame gives rise to the particulates problem due to incomplete combustion. If you have an exhaust gas without free oxygen, a simple catalytic converter will reduce NOx to molecular nitrogen and molecular oxygen (ie the stuff in regular air). If you use the same catalyst with excess oxygen (as is present in diesel exhaust), the oxidizing environment will drive the chemistry the other way and potentially increase rather than reduce (in both senses) the NOx. There are other chemical pathways that can be used to reduce the NOx emissions from a Diesel engine, generally involving urea (the industry has adopted the name ad blue because marketing people think the word "urea" might be unpopular). There is the other issue that between 2001 and 2005 engine technology for both petrol and Diesel engines improved, so it's not really a like for like comparison in terms of technology level. Robin |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 17:07:37 on Mon, 18 Jul
2016, bob remarked: Anyway, isn't the tax on diesels only? People can always get an old petrol-engined car as I have. The problem with that is they tend to be gas guzzlers. I swapped my 2001 petrol car for a 2005 diesel last year and literally doubled the MPG (same size engine and a slightly bigger vehicle). Not an entirely fare comparison. Diesel is denser than petrol, so a gallon of diesel will emit more CO2 than a gallon of petrol. There's also the issue that Diesel engines produce significantly more of the types of emissions that are directly harmful to human health in an urban environment, namely particulates and NOx. Diesel engines burn with a diffusion flame in excess air while petrol engines burn with a premixed flame in roughly stoichiometric air/fuel conditions. The diffusion flame gives rise to the particulates problem due to incomplete combustion. If you have an exhaust gas without free oxygen, a simple catalytic converter will reduce NOx to molecular nitrogen and molecular oxygen (ie the stuff in regular air). If you use the same catalyst with excess oxygen (as is present in diesel exhaust), the oxidizing environment will drive the chemistry the other way and potentially increase rather than reduce (in both senses) the NOx. There are other chemical pathways that can be used to reduce the NOx emissions from a Diesel engine, generally involving urea (the industry has adopted the name ad blue because marketing people think the word "urea" might be unpopular). There is the other issue that between 2001 and 2005 engine technology for both petrol and Diesel engines improved, Doubling the MPG? Really? so it's not really a like for like comparison in terms of technology level. I'm comparing 8p/mile vs 16p/mile. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote: On 2016-07-18 16:03:22 +0000, d said: My supermarket is a 3 min walk away. I know exactly where everything is and I can go around in about 5-10 mins. Both of those are extremely exceptional. Most people cannot do a round trip to their nearest supermarket and a family weekly shop in less than an hour and a half or so. Good grief! In remote parts of the countryside maybe but not in cities where most people live. It takes me about 5 minutes to cycle to one of my 3 nearest supermarkets and never more than an hour to do the family shopping even when I cycle further as I did today. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 15:09:50 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, remarked: Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later would have a sufficiently clean engine. He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels - you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a year or so. Mine is Euro 4 (2005 on), and I thought they wanted to discourage anything that wasn't at least Euro 5 (2009 onwards). The goalposts have moved to Euro 6? (2014 on). Maybe not those goalposts. No diesel cars supposedly meeting those Euro standards actually do so on the road as has been made clear by Volkswagen. Sure about that? The VW scandal only involves those cars where they refrained from fitting the Ad-Blu equipment (to save money and boot space). There are plenty of cars which do have that equipment fitted, including the subsequent model of my car since 2009 (to meet Euro 5). Measurements of actual pollution from Euro 4 and later vehicles in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high. We were doing so well too, before reality intruded. :-( -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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