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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 2016-07-19 08:36:35 +0000, Roland Perry said:
Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London. Most Euro 5 engines don't use AdBlue, they just use a particulate filter. It's more of a Euro 6 thing. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 19:28:45 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016, remarked: Are you sure about that? I though any diesel sold in 2006 or later would have a sufficiently clean engine. He's right - they are going for the *next* Euro standard for diesels - you can't even buy one yet, or if you can they've only been out for a year or so. Mine is Euro 4 (2005 on), and I thought they wanted to discourage anything that wasn't at least Euro 5 (2009 onwards). The goalposts have moved to Euro 6? (2014 on). Maybe not those goalposts. No diesel cars supposedly meeting those Euro standards actually do so on the road as has been made clear by Volkswagen. Sure about that? The VW scandal only involves those cars where they refrained from fitting the Ad-Blu equipment (to save money and boot space). There are plenty of cars which do have that equipment fitted, including the subsequent model of my car since 2009 (to meet Euro 5). Measurements of actual pollution from Euro 4 and later vehicles Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London. Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out in reality that it isn't. in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high. I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses? and taxis/hire cars. We were doing so well too, before reality intruded. :-( -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote: On 2016-07-19 12:19:24 +0000, said: You are making rash assumptions about the amount of shopping I carry on my bike! Do you have a large luggage trailer? If so, you are *even more* of an exception. No, just baskets, bags and handlebars sufficient to carry £50 pounds' worth home on Sunday. My experience over many years is that Usenet posters are not typical shoppers. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 07:19:24 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked: Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London. Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out in reality that it isn't. But I'm discussing Euro 5. Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller. in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high. I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses? and taxis/hire cars. Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5? All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or hybrids, for new saloons at least. I'm out of the loop now so don't know where they've got to. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 19:05:58
on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 07:19:24 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked: Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London. Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out in reality that it isn't. But I'm discussing Euro 5. Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller. The various NOx limits a Euro 3 Jan 2000 500 Euro 4 Jan 2005 250 Euro 5 Sept 2009 180 Euro 6 Sept 2014 80 Thus Euro 4 was fairly short lived. Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole range. in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high. I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses? and taxis/hire cars. Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5? All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or hybrids, for new saloons at least. Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge? I'm out of the loop now so don't know where they've got to. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 19:05:58 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 07:19:24 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016, remarked: Euro 4's time is coming up, but I'd be somewhat miffed if a Euro 5 with ad-blu ended up being restricted in London. Euro 4 was supposed to be twice as good for NOx as Euro 3. It turns out in reality that it isn't. But I'm discussing Euro 5. Same problem though the relative NOx improvement of 4 over 5 is smaller. The various NOx limits a Euro 3 Jan 2000 500 Euro 4 Jan 2005 250 Euro 5 Sept 2009 180 Euro 6 Sept 2014 80 Thus Euro 4 was fairly short lived. Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole range. The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3 instead of half the level. in Cambridge rather undermined the City Council's plans to clean up the city centre where pollution levels are illegally high. I've never really understood that, due to the restrictions on cars getting into the city centre at all. Is it mainly caused by the buses? and taxis/hire cars. Can't the council insist they are all at least Euro 5? All in good time given that there are maximum ages of vehicles but by now they should be insisting on Euro 6 or even limit to pure electrics or hybrids, for new saloons at least. Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge? Dunno. Strictly speaking, City Council control of taxis doesn't extend beyond the city boundary. I read that the present approach is to encourage adoption of some electric vehicles in what will always be a mixed fleet. All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act. I'm out of the loop now so don't know where they've got to. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 03:53:11 -0500
wrote: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole range. The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3 instead of half the level. Hardly surprising. Unless you use a NOx capture system such as adblue then low NOx = higher CO2 and vice versa due to the conflicting demands of cylinder temperatures required. Drivers don't notice NOx emissions but they do notice rubbish fuel economy so no car company that wanted to stay in business would sacrifice fuel economy for NOx so they make sure of low NOx figures during the test and high everywhere else. And TBH , CO2 is a lot more important than NOx anyway in the medium and long term. All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act. Its all stick and no carrot isn't it with people like you. If car drivers arn't allowed to use a road they've legally paid to use then they the council should offer some sort of road tax refund or provide free park and ride services. -- Spud |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 10:49:40 on Wed, 20
Jul 2016, Neil Williams remarked: Dunno. Strictly speaking, City Council control of taxis doesn't extend beyond the city boundary. I read that the present approach is to encourage adoption of some electric vehicles in what will always be a mixed fleet. In any case, private taxis going to/from airports a long way out of London that have viable[1] public transport services is hardly to be encouraged. To continue that "viability" test, where train services fall down most badly is getting people to and from the early and late flights, which are so commonplace in the lost cost and charter airline industries. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 2016\07\20 06:47, Roland Perry wrote:
Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge? LOL. London taxis get rides to Salisbury, Liverpool, Sheffield or Hull with zero warning in advance. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 2016-07-20 10:09:30 +0000, Roland Perry said:
To continue that "viability" test, where train services fall down most badly is getting people to and from the early and late flights, which are so commonplace in the lost cost and charter airline industries. This is very true when not travelling to/from Central London. Most of these London taxis of the kind which would be low-range electric cars are going to be operating in Central London. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In message , at 12:01:31 on Wed, 20
Jul 2016, Neil Williams remarked: To continue that "viability" test, where train services fall down most badly is getting people to and from the early and late flights, which are so commonplace in the lost cost and charter airline industries. This is very true when not travelling to/from Central London. I used to live inside the M25 and I couldn't get the first train and arrive at Waterloo (same line) in time for the first Eurostar of the day. -- Roland Perry |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , d () wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 03:53:11 -0500 wrote: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: Most of the VWs implicated in the recent scandal were tested during the Euro 5 time window (all the way back to 2009), and my understanding is the most pressing trigger for the recent testing issue was the USA moving from a "fleet average" emissions target during their equivalent of the Euro 5 equivalent epoch to an "every model you make must pass" in their Euro 6 equivalent epoch - while also trying to avoid the cost of deploying AdBlue across the whole range. The point was that on the road surveys in central Cambridge demonstrated much higher emissions levels with Euro 4 barely better than Euro 3 instead of half the level. Hardly surprising. Unless you use a NOx capture system such as adblue then low NOx = higher CO2 and vice versa due to the conflicting demands of cylinder temperatures required. Drivers don't notice NOx emissions but they do notice rubbish fuel economy so no car company that wanted to stay in business would sacrifice fuel economy for NOx so they make sure of low NOx figures during the test and high everywhere else. And TBH , CO2 is a lot more important than NOx anyway in the medium and long term. All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act. Its all stick and no carrot isn't it with people like you. If car drivers arn't allowed to use a road they've legally paid to use then they the council should offer some sort of road tax refund or provide free park and ride services. The roads in question, as Roland knows but perhaps you don't, are very restricted for car access and have been for nearly 20 years. Access is maintained though. Most of the emissions are from buses and taxis as I said. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 03:53:11 on Wed, 20 Jul 2016, remarked: All the time I was involved we wanted the County Council to use the city centre bollards to limit the numbers of polluting vehicles. Despite their responsibilities under the legislation they failed to act. Different transponders for different classes of emissions? A. Transponders are obsolete technology which is no longer obtainable so future enforcement will be by ANPR. In any case they are logically the same. Each is an identifying number with certain numbers permitted and others barred. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 2016\07\20 19:22, wrote:
In article , (Basil Jet) wrote: On 2016\07\20 06:47, Roland Perry wrote: Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge? LOL. London taxis get rides to Salisbury, Liverpool, Sheffield or Hull with zero warning in advance. Unlike London, Cambridge does not have a uniform taxi fleet. So there is room for petrol and diesel vehicles as well as electric, together with saloons and vans/London-type cabs. But who would want to be the taxi driver that has to turn down every long job because his vehicle is not fit for it? It could work for a PH company to give the drivers a rota in the different vehicles, but taxis can't operate like this. Every taxi has to have enough range for any conceivable job. |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
Basil Jet wrote on 20 Jul 2016 at 19:55 ...
On 2016\07\20 19:22, wrote: In article , (Basil Jet) wrote: On 2016\07\20 06:47, Roland Perry wrote: Would a pure electric taxi/private hire car be able to do the Heathrow or Gatwick run on one charge? LOL. London taxis get rides to Salisbury, Liverpool, Sheffield or Hull with zero warning in advance. Unlike London, Cambridge does not have a uniform taxi fleet. So there is room for petrol and diesel vehicles as well as electric, together with saloons and vans/London-type cabs. But who would want to be the taxi driver that has to turn down every long job because his vehicle is not fit for it? It could work for a PH company to give the drivers a rota in the different vehicles, but taxis can't operate like this. Every taxi has to have enough range for any conceivable job. Well, that's the way it's arranged currently, apparently. But if a taxi driver gets hailed by people who want to go to Hull, presumably he has the option to refuse them, if only because it would take him over the n hours per day driving limit. If so, a shortage of available driving hours can apply equally to the car or the driver; it doesn't make much difference. In a sensible world, the taxi driver could help the customer by phoning a local minicab operator to book the trip to Hull, and get commission for doing so. But I guess we're a long way from such a joined-up solution. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
Richard J. wrote:
Well, that's the way it's arranged currently, apparently. But if a taxi driver gets hailed by people who want to go to Hull, presumably he has the option to refuse them, if only because it would take him over the n hours per day driving limit. If so, a shortage of available driving hours can apply equally to the car or the driver; it doesn't make much difference. Currently there is no limit on taxi drivers hours although there have been occasional calls to introduce such a limit. Peter Smyth |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
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Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
On 21/07/2016 07:41, wrote:
In article , (Peter Smyth) wrote: Currently there is no limit on taxi drivers hours although there have been occasional calls to introduce such a limit. Taxis are only required to be hireable within the licensing area, so Greater London or the City of Cambridge. Beyond those limits it's entirely a matter of negotiation, no different from a hire car (or minicab as Londoners tend to misname them). Wasn't the point about HOURS rather than area? |
Conductors axed from NB4L/New Routemaster/Boris Bus
In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote: On 21/07/2016 07:41, wrote: In article , (Peter Smyth) wrote: Currently there is no limit on taxi drivers hours although there have been occasional calls to introduce such a limit. Taxis are only required to be hireable within the licensing area, so Greater London or the City of Cambridge. Beyond those limits it's entirely a matter of negotiation, no different from a hire car (or minicab as Londoners tend to misname them). Wasn't the point about HOURS rather than area? Not as far as licensing law is concerned. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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