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Keygo is set to expand to cover Thameslink up to Bedford and Great Northern as far as Huntingdon this autumn. There are also plans to expand its coverage to all TfL services.
https://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/u...2016-FINAL.pdf |
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In message , at
02:50:58 on Wed, 3 Aug 2016, Matthew Dickinson remarked: Keygo is set to expand to cover Thameslink up to Bedford and Great Northern as far as Huntingdon this autumn. There are also plans to expand its coverage to all TfL services. https://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/u...2016-FINAL.pdf Are they rebranding the card? (From theKey to keyGo; with a side measure of PAYG) "In the autumn, keyGo will extend to stations in London and all of its Great Northern and Thameslink routes - providing coverage from Brighton to Huntingdon." A nice bit of doublespeak there - last time I looked the GN route went all the way to Peterborough. So when they say "all GN and Thameslink routes" they mean "... but only at stations we can be arsed to equip, thus breaking one of our franchise commitments". -- Roland Perry |
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 02:50:58 on Wed, 3 Aug 2016, Matthew Dickinson remarked: Keygo is set to expand to cover Thameslink up to Bedford and Great Northern as far as Huntingdon this autumn. There are also plans to expand its coverage to all TfL services. https://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/u...2016-FINAL.pdf Are they rebranding the card? (From theKey to keyGo; with a side measure of PAYG) "In the autumn, keyGo will extend to stations in London and all of its Great Northern and Thameslink routes - providing coverage from Brighton to Huntingdon." A nice bit of doublespeak there - last time I looked the GN route went all the way to Peterborough. So when they say "all GN and Thameslink routes" they mean "... but only at stations we can be arsed to equip, thus breaking one of our franchise commitments". surely the problem with Peterborough is having to avoid the problem of people using Main line trains and then toughing out as if they have used a stopping train (which I believe attracts a lower fare) tim |
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In message , at 11:56:38 on Wed, 3 Aug 2016,
tim... remarked: "In the autumn, keyGo will extend to stations in London and all of its Great Northern and Thameslink routes - providing coverage from Brighton to Huntingdon." A nice bit of doublespeak there - last time I looked the GN route went all the way to Peterborough. So when they say "all GN and Thameslink routes" they mean "... but only at stations we can be arsed to equip, thus breaking one of our franchise commitments". surely the problem with Peterborough is having to avoid the problem of people using Main line trains and then toughing out as if they have used a stopping train (which I believe attracts a lower fare) No, it's because Peterborough is an East Coast managed station and GTR haven't sorted out integrating their readers with the gateline. People catching the East Coast trains on a cheaper "GN only" ticket are no more of a problem than now with paper tickets. Sorted out by grippers on the fast trains. -- Roland Perry |
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In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 16:33:08 on Wed, 3 Aug 2016, remarked: And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant to be so fragmented after privatisation. It had to be a bit fragmented to deliver pricing competition (as you know from your jaunts via Liverpool St). That their machines won't, it seems, sell you tickets for until it's too late not to miss the train. Are you referring to buying a ticket for the first off-peak train? Yes. At least these days most booking office clerks will sell you one ahead of time, having first made enquiries about when you intend travelling. Back in the day they wouldn't. Yes, I know but we were caught out by an expected queue to the door in the ticket office and the people, unlike the machines, wanting to see my wife's railcard while she was caught in the maze that is the bike park at present. When I lived near Surbiton it was impossible to catch the first off-peak train to London (if it was on time) because it left only one or two minutes after they'd started selling tickets for it. If we'd known there would all of a sudden be silly ticket office queues at 10:45 on a Tuesday morning we'd have bought on the web of course. The machines (which didn't have queues) would have give us TOD (or I could have used an m-Ticket; my wife doesn't have a suitable phone). -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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"Roland Perry" wrote Are you referring to buying a ticket for the first off-peak train? At least these days most booking office clerks will sell you one ahead of time, having first made enquiries about when you intend travelling. Back in the day they wouldn't. When I lived near Surbiton it was impossible to catch the first off-peak train to London (if it was on time) because it left only one or two minutes after they'd started selling tickets for it. They are and were prepared to sell them the previous day (after 3pm unless that was the machines). Also the same day after the last peak train had left (too many trains at Surbiton for this to make much difference). -- Mike D |
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wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 11:56:38 on Wed, 3 Aug 2016, tim... remarked: "In the autumn, keyGo will extend to stations in London and all of its Great Northern and Thameslink routes - providing coverage from Brighton to Huntingdon." A nice bit of doublespeak there - last time I looked the GN route went all the way to Peterborough. So when they say "all GN and Thameslink routes" they mean "... but only at stations we can be arsed to equip, thus breaking one of our franchise commitments". surely the problem with Peterborough is having to avoid the problem of people using Main line trains and then toughing out as if they have used a stopping train (which I believe attracts a lower fare) No, it's because Peterborough is an East Coast managed station and GTR haven't sorted out integrating their readers with the gateline. Same problem as Cambridge where the majority of 10m annual passengers use GTR trains but AGA run the station and only handle their own smartcard and m-ticket technologies. And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant to be so fragmented after privatisation. I thought the whole idea behind ITSO cards and technology was to avoid precisely this issue. Where did it all go wrong? Robin |
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In message , at 23:51:45 on Thu, 4 Aug 2016,
bob remarked: "In the autumn, keyGo will extend to stations in London and all of its Great Northern and Thameslink routes - providing coverage from Brighton to Huntingdon." A nice bit of doublespeak there - last time I looked the GN route went all the way to Peterborough. So when they say "all GN and Thameslink routes" they mean "... but only at stations we can be arsed to equip, thus breaking one of our franchise commitments". surely the problem with Peterborough is having to avoid the problem of people using Main line trains and then toughing out as if they have used a stopping train (which I believe attracts a lower fare) No, it's because Peterborough is an East Coast managed station and GTR haven't sorted out integrating their readers with the gateline. Same problem as Cambridge where the majority of 10m annual passengers use GTR trains but AGA run the station and only handle their own smartcard and m-ticket technologies. And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant to be so fragmented after privatisation. I thought the whole idea behind ITSO cards and technology was to avoid precisely this issue. Where did it all go wrong? Two problems, quite different. The one about stations: having gated them you have to attach ITSO pads to them. That took TfL long enough just to allow ITSO season ticket holders passage. Unless I've missed it I don't think TfL and their national rail partners have got their head around ITSO pay as you go yet on routes with ticket interavailability. Secondly, interoperability: this is much more fundamental to the ITSO concept. In theory I should be able to load a Scotrail ITSO ticket onto a whatever Southern's "the Key" is called this week, but there isn't even interoperability amongst (eg) ITSO cards in different bits of the Stagecoach empire, let alone on trips using more than one franchise's trains. -- Roland Perry |
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ITSO PAYG (TYP 2) is not part of the ITSO on Prestige rollout, so wouldn't be recognised by Oyster readers were any scheme to actually exist.
Southern's account based PAYG scheme (TYP 22 PTYP 4) is part of IoP. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...20analysis.pdf |
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On 05/08/2016 00:51, bob wrote:
wrote: And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant to be so fragmented after privatisation. I thought the whole idea behind ITSO cards and technology was to avoid precisely this issue. Where did it all go wrong? A while ago I met some techies from a TOC and TfL, who told me there is a big problem with the conflict between a political desire to let 'the market' come up with something instead of being told what to do by the government, and the practical need to have someone in charge who can decide on a standard which everyone can then actually get on and use. Everyone knows it is daft for every company to deploy its own system, but co-ordination needs someone in charge to decide what to use. The techies claimed that every time there was almost an agreement, Claire Perry would run away and say it had to be left to the market rather than DfT. Plus, TOCs want to hold on to their passenger data, not share it with rivals who might bid for the next franchise. And there is the issue of goat-herding orphans, which acts as a brake on technology. Even deciding they can just walk instead takes ages. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
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"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message ... On 05/08/2016 00:51, bob wrote: wrote: And there was me thinking that ticketing was one bit that wasn't meant to be so fragmented after privatisation. I thought the whole idea behind ITSO cards and technology was to avoid precisely this issue. Where did it all go wrong? A while ago I met some techies from a TOC and TfL, who told me there is a big problem with the conflict between a political desire to let 'the market' come up with something instead of being told what to do by the government, and the practical need to have someone in charge who can decide on a standard which everyone can then actually get on and use. Everyone knows it is daft for every company to deploy its own system, but co-ordination needs someone in charge to decide what to use. The techies claimed that every time there was almost an agreement, Claire Perry would run away and say it had to be left to the market rather than DfT. The smart-metering initiative seems to have suffered from the same problem. Governments and IT, not a good mix! Plus, TOCs want to hold on to their passenger data, not share it with rivals who might bid for the next franchise. And there is the issue of goat-herding orphans, which acts as a brake on technology. Even deciding they can just walk instead takes ages. There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use smart card.. A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses) tim |
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wrote in message ... In article , (tim...) wrote: There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use smart card.. A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses) Contactless largely undid that. -- Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one) And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a registration system tim |
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In article , (tim...)
wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim...) wrote: There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use smart card.. A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses) Contactless largely undid that. Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one) And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a registration system That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most foreigners. Many under-18s go free of course. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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wrote in message ... In article , (tim...) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (tim...) wrote: There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use smart card.. A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses) Contactless largely undid that. Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one) And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a registration system That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most foreigners. Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a one per family member basis not all foreign banks offer contactless Many under-18s go free of course. We are talking about expansion to the national rail network, not London buses tim |
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In message , at 13:12:49 on Sun, 7 Aug 2016,
tim... remarked: A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses) Contactless largely undid that. Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one) And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a registration system That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most foreigners. Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a one per family member basis not all foreign banks offer contactless That's just something that travellers have to cope with, like getting the relevant foreign currency. You can easily get contactless pre-paid cards from third parties. -- Roland Perry |
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 13:12:49 on Sun, 7 Aug 2016, tim... remarked: A registered-card only system is going to disenfranchise too large a set of people (even if they do try to do this on London buses) Contactless largely undid that. Not for under 18s and foreigners, it didn't. Especially in groups when only one between four has a card (which can only be used for one) And they are the set most likely to be disenfranchised by a registration system That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most foreigners. Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a one per family member basis not all foreign banks offer contactless That's just something that travellers have to cope with, like getting the relevant foreign currency. You can easily get contactless pre-paid cards from third parties. But why would anyone want a pre-payment card, especially if you can't get a refund The transport network of South Sweden run an oyster-like card (it is also developed/managed by Cubic), which offers 20% discount on cash fares But it is only fundable with 200Kr (so 20 quid) at a time - no refunds. 20% saving on 10 pounds of fares is pointless if you have to write off 10 pounds left on the card. (I can't remember if multiple users can share). tim |
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On 06/08/2016 10:10, tim... wrote:
There is always going to have to be a system of purchasing tickets by walk ups - even if the actual "ticket" is dispensed on a one time use smart card.. I was in Seoul last weekend and that's what they do there. The cost of the journey includes a deposit of 500 won (approximately 35p) for the ticket. There are machines outside the gateline that will accept the card and return the deposit. |
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In message , at 16:18:26 on Sun, 7 Aug 2016,
tim... remarked: Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a one per family member basis not all foreign banks offer contactless That's just something that travellers have to cope with, like getting the relevant foreign currency. You can easily get contactless pre-paid cards from third parties. But why would anyone want a pre-payment card, So you can pay for things. especially if you can't get a refund Spend the balance in the bar at the airport on the way home. Or even after you get back home. The transport network of South Sweden run an oyster-like card (it is also developed/managed by Cubic), which offers 20% discount on cash fares But it is only fundable with 200Kr (so 20 quid) at a time - no refunds. 20% saving on 10 pounds of fares is pointless if you have to write off 10 pounds left on the card. That's not a contactless Credit Card. -- Roland Perry |
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 16:18:26 on Sun, 7 Aug 2016, tim... remarked: Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a one per family member basis not all foreign banks offer contactless That's just something that travellers have to cope with, like getting the relevant foreign currency. You can easily get contactless pre-paid cards from third parties. But why would anyone want a pre-payment card, So you can pay for things. especially if you can't get a refund Spend the balance in the bar at the airport on the way home. Or even after you get back home. Oh I understand now I thought the PP was referring to a pre-payment travel card (like the visitor Oyster) Does contactless work with pre-payment cards. I though the consensus was that it didn't The transport network of South Sweden run an oyster-like card (it is also developed/managed by Cubic), which offers 20% discount on cash fares But it is only fundable with 200Kr (so 20 quid) at a time - no refunds. 20% saving on 10 pounds of fares is pointless if you have to write off 10 pounds left on the card. That's not a contactless Credit Card. I know but it is what I thought the PP was suggesting the user should buy (instead of the alternative of sticking cash into the ticket machine when you buy a ticket) tim |
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wrote in message ... On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 13:12:49 +0100, "tim..." wrote: That was why I said "largely" of course. Registration is not necessary to use contactless which is why it is available to many if not most foreigners. Many foreign countries don't have a credit card culture, at least not on a one per family member basis not all foreign banks offer contactless We have just had a referendum where the result was influenced by many people deciding that foreigners should adapt to the ways of our culture or bugger off so why should you care. we are not talking about them adapting to our culture we are talking about them being able to obtain tickets for long distance rail travel, note that's "obtain at all", not "enjoy a discount on". restricting that only to people who have a "magic" card of some type or other seems ridiculous tim |
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In message , at 14:15:36 on Mon, 8 Aug 2016,
tim... remarked: But why would anyone want a pre-payment card, So you can pay for things. especially if you can't get a refund Spend the balance in the bar at the airport on the way home. Or even after you get back home. Oh I understand now I thought the PP was referring to a pre-payment travel card (like the visitor Oyster) Does contactless work with pre-payment cards. I though the consensus was that it didn't I have two which do work. But I did have to search one of them out (the other I had already). -- Roland Perry |
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