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Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
tim... wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: “True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do,” Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees.” I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift times to work this week The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when self-declared "on shift". Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding. Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money. I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets. If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a couple of notches). You already hated Uber with a deep passion, despite manifestly knowing nothing about it. So how could you now like it even less? With regard to the pool issue, pooled customers get discount, and so the driver also gets less from each, while his costs go up: Quote: With UberPool, riders traveling to similar destinations are grouped together in the same vehicle. Riders receive a discount for using UberPool. Uber claims the service can help drivers make more money because they spend less time waiting between rides. (Ride requests are generally sent to the driver who is nearest to the person requesting a ride.) Yet Uber drivers are generally unhappy with UberPool, according to interviews with two experts, seven drivers and an extensive review of online forums where thousands of drivers congregate, including Facebook and Reddit. The Independent Drivers Guild, which advocates for New York's 35,000 Uber drivers, calls UberPool a top issue for drivers. Drivers say UberPool means more work, but not necessarily more pay. Many also complain that driving for Uber Pool hurts the ratings customers give them. They say the customer experience is negatively influenced by going out of the way to pick up another rider, and then sitting next to a sometimes undesirable passenger. "They do it begrudgingly," Harry Campbell, founder of The Rideshare Guy, a ridesharing blog, said of drivers participating in UberPool. "They're basically doing the same trips, but now they have two people in [their car] and they get paid about the same amount." From http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/28/tech...pool-timeouts/ |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On 18/08/2016 10:41, Recliner wrote:
a truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like, I think that's not a valid paraphrase of the Harvard professor or of UK law. Eg I doubt locum doctors working in A&E under a contract for services are free to take a break "whenever they like". I also doubt that self-employed drivers with a "patch" can decide to take some parcels but not others; or decide half-way through a day's deliveries that they don't want to do any more work that day. I'm not defending Uber but I do think much depends on the precise terms of the Uber contract. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
In message
-sept ember.org, at 09:41:28 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: “True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do,” Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees.” I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. Yes, but it seems they have less freedom than they expected. And unlike a truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like, That's an oversimplification. As a (formerly) truly self-employed person if I promised to attend at a client's site all day, it wasn't expected that I could just take a break whenever it suited me. Uber penalises them if they do. Even if the driver "logs off"? -- Roland Perry |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:50:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message -sept ember.org, at 09:41:28 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do, Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees. I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. Yes, but it seems they have less freedom than they expected. And unlike a truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like, That's an oversimplification. As a (formerly) truly self-employed person if I promised to attend at a client's site all day, it wasn't expected that I could just take a break whenever it suited me. But didn't you get paid for the whole day, meaning that all your time during that working day had been paid-for? |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:24:10 +0100, Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2016 10:41, Recliner wrote: a truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like, I think that's not a valid paraphrase of the Harvard professor or of UK law. Eg I doubt locum doctors working in A&E under a contract for services are free to take a break "whenever they like". Sure, but they're paid for the whole shift. Uber drivers aren't. They're effectively on piece work, but are not only not paid while they take a break, but kept offline as punishment is they do. I also doubt that self-employed drivers with a "patch" can decide to take some parcels but not others; or decide half-way through a day's deliveries that they don't want to do any more work that day. I think that's exactly what some do. I'm not defending Uber but I do think much depends on the precise terms of the Uber contract. I'd imagine their contract is watertight, but not necessarily fair. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
"Recliner" wrote in message ... tim... wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: “True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do,” Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees.” I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift times to work this week The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when self-declared "on shift". Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding. Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money. I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets. If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a couple of notches). You already hated Uber with a deep passion, No, I hate it's business model despite manifestly knowing nothing about it. I know lots about it One doesn't have to be a user of something to know how it works So how could you now like it even less? With regard to the pool issue, pooled customers get discount, and so the driver also gets less from each, while his costs go up: Quote: With UberPool, riders traveling to similar destinations are grouped together in the same vehicle. Riders receive a discount for using UberPool. Uber claims the service can help drivers make more money because they spend less time waiting between rides. (Ride requests are generally sent to the driver who is nearest to the person requesting a ride.) They would say that wouldn't they tim |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:54 +0100, "tim..."
wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... tim... wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do, Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees. I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift times to work this week The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when self-declared "on shift". Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding. Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money. I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets. If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a couple of notches). You already hated Uber with a deep passion, No, I hate it's business model What do you hate about its business model? Do you even know what it is? despite manifestly knowing nothing about it. I know lots about it Really? It's not apparent from your posts. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
In message , at 13:06:19 on
Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: As a (formerly) truly self-employed person if I promised to attend at a client's site all day, it wasn't expected that I could just take a break whenever it suited me. But didn't you get paid for the whole day, meaning that all your time during that working day had been paid-for? I've never specified how many hours a day, but typically I'd do about 13hrs a day, albeit to include commuting time if required. Normally the client pays for any overnight accommodation. -- Roland Perry |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:03:15 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:06:19 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: As a (formerly) truly self-employed person if I promised to attend at a client's site all day, it wasn't expected that I could just take a break whenever it suited me. But didn't you get paid for the whole day, meaning that all your time during that working day had been paid-for? I've never specified how many hours a day, but typically I'd do about 13hrs a day, albeit to include commuting time if required. Normally the client pays for any overnight accommodation. 13 hours a day? Sooner you than me. -- Spud |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2016 10:41, Recliner wrote: a truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like, I think that's not a valid paraphrase of the Harvard professor or of UK law. Eg I doubt locum doctors working in A&E under a contract for services are free to take a break "whenever they like". I also doubt that self-employed drivers with a "patch" can decide to take some parcels but not others; or decide half-way through a day's deliveries that they don't want to do any more work that day. I'm not defending Uber but I do think much depends on the precise terms of the Uber contract. It seems that Uber has made more progress than I thought in solving the issues with its drivers' contracts. It could be that within a few years Uber won't have unhappy drivers: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featur...month-is06r7on |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:54 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... tim... wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: "True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do," Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. "By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees." I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift times to work this week The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when self-declared "on shift". Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding. Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money. I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets. If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a couple of notches). You already hated Uber with a deep passion, No, I hate it's business model What do you hate about its business model? I have already told you, several times Do you even know what it is? Just because I have no idea how a "pick up" works, doesn't mean that I know nothing about the operation of the rest of the company. The pick-up is an insignificant part of the whole. despite manifestly knowing nothing about it. I know lots about it Really? It's not apparent from your posts. Why is it my fault that you cannot read? tim |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
tim... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:54 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... tim... wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: "True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do," Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. "By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees." I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift times to work this week The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when self-declared "on shift". Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding. Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money. I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets. If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a couple of notches). You already hated Uber with a deep passion, No, I hate it's business model What do you hate about its business model? I have already told you, several times No, you've told us that you hate it with a deep passionate. You haven't explained why. All the reasons you've provided have been incorrect. Do you even know what it is? Just because I have no idea how a "pick up" works, doesn't mean that I know nothing about the operation of the rest of the company. You don't seem to know anything about the company except that you hate it. The pick-up is an insignificant part of the whole. despite manifestly knowing nothing about it. I know lots about it Really? It's not apparent from your posts. Why is it my fault that you cannot read? I think your problem is that we can all read your posts perfectly well. It was all too apparent that you didn't know who Uber competed with, why people do or don't choose to use it, how they use it, why blind people are very unlikely to have Uber accounts, and why choosing to attack Uber for its record keeping would be very foolish. You seemed to think that Uber's main problem was with its customer service, rather than how it treats its drivers. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
"Recliner" wrote in message ... tim... wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:54 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... tim... wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: "True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to work and what kind of work they want to do," Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law School professor told CNNMoney. "By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise over employees." I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being able to work flexible hours and/or part time. well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift times to work this week The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when self-declared "on shift". Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding. Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money. I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets. If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a couple of notches). You already hated Uber with a deep passion, No, I hate it's business model What do you hate about its business model? I have already told you, several times No, you've told us that you hate it with a deep passionate. You haven't explained why. Oh yes I have! All the reasons you've provided have been incorrect. as I have already told you: just because you think that my reasons aren't correct doesn't make my belief that they are, an invalid reason for using them to dislike the company's business model. And in any case, I dispute your claim that they are incorrect. You haven't presented a single piece of evidence that they are, just continually asserted your position - that doesn't make you right, you aren't God. You don't win an argument by simply repeating "no it isn't, no it isn't, no it isn't, which so far, is all that you have done Your position is built on sand and has no credibility whatsoever I'm fed up with you cheating here conversation over tim |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:50:19AM -0000, Recliner wrote:
Uber is more likely to be used by people who are out and about. Once a driver has been assigned, Uber sends the client a description of the car, and it's up to the customer to identify it and get in. The app notifies you shortly before the driver arrives. If you don't make yourself obvious to the driver quickly then IME he phones you. Someone getting a mini cab from home is more likely to phone their local firm, Are they? I certainly don't, partly because Uber are cheaper and quicker, partly because the app is more convenient. which will be cheaper IME Uber is cheaper than a local cab office. and more likely to have a car available locally. At least where I live Uber has sufficiently good coverage that they're actually more likely to have a car available quickly than the local cab office. They will also accept pre-bookings, which Uber does not. Yes, that's the only reason I ever use any cab company other than Uber now. -- David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence European immigration: making Britain great since AD43 |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 01:26:03PM +0100, Recliner wrote:
One obvious reason: it's more expensive IME Uber is cheaper than a local minicab company by around 25%. especially at 'surge' times. OK, I'll grant you that. They're rare though. - Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in residential areas (just like black cabs). Wrong. There are four, right now, within 500 yards of my flat. - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. You only have to do it once though. I did it while waiting ages for a normal minicab to become available at a cab office in Balham. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The test of the goodness of a thing is its fitness for use. If it fails on this first test, no amount of ornamentation or finish will make it any better, it will only make it more expensive and foolish. -- Frank Pick, lecture to the Design and Industries Assoc, 1916 |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100
David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? Do you have any sort of conscience? -- Spud |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
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Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 01:26:03PM +0100, Recliner wrote: One obvious reason: it's more expensive IME Uber is cheaper than a local minicab company by around 25%. Not where I am. The trusty local minicab firm is consistently cheaper than Uber's estimates. And Uber doesn't claim to be cheaper than minicabs, only black cabs (which it certainly is). especially at 'surge' times. OK, I'll grant you that. They're rare though. Lots of people say otherwise. - Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in residential areas (just like black cabs). Wrong. There are four, right now, within 500 yards of my flat. I suspect you're near the sort of traffic magnet that attracts Uber drivers. They don't otherwise hang around residential areas. - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. And how exactly do they operate the Uber app if they can't see the screen? - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. I was talking about using one's local minicab firm. If you're out and around, then Uber is certainly more convenient, even though it's more expensive. You only have to do it once though. I did it while waiting ages for a normal minicab to become available at a cab office in Balham. Yes, of course. And it's great if travelling abroad. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 15:30:04 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote: On 24/08/2016 14:51, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? Do you have any sort of conscience? Because, as each driver is a self-employed contractor I am supporting local businesses! Hardly. Thats like saying buying a coffee at Starbucks is the same as buying it from your local cafe. One pays corporation tax, one doesn't. If you're talking about the profit margin, then if some of the rumours about the alleged owners of some of the local minicab firms are in any way true, I'd far prefer my money to go to Uber than them. There will always be dodgy companies in any sector. That doesn't mean they're all bent. Why TfL allowed Uber to operate here with its hailing model is anyones guess. In thrall to big business presumably. -- Spud |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On 24/08/2016 15:50, d wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 15:30:04 +0100 Someone Somewhere wrote: On 24/08/2016 14:51, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? Do you have any sort of conscience? Because, as each driver is a self-employed contractor I am supporting local businesses! Hardly. Thats like saying buying a coffee at Starbucks is the same as buying it from your local cafe. One pays corporation tax, one doesn't. If you're talking about the profit margin, then if some of the rumours about the alleged owners of some of the local minicab firms are in any way true, I'd far prefer my money to go to Uber than them. There will always be dodgy companies in any sector. That doesn't mean they're all bent. Why TfL allowed Uber to operate here with its hailing model is anyones guess. In thrall to big business presumably. Should we only use minicab firms that run cars that are British made and from British owned firms to avoid some of the purchase price ending up overseas potentially with a firm that doesn't fulfil all its moral tax obligations? What about the provenance of the fuel and other consumables? |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 15:30:04 +0100 Someone Somewhere wrote: On 24/08/2016 14:51, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? Do you have any sort of conscience? Because, as each driver is a self-employed contractor I am supporting local businesses! Hardly. Thats like saying buying a coffee at Starbucks is the same as buying it from your local cafe. One pays corporation tax, one doesn't. If you're talking about the profit margin, then if some of the rumours about the alleged owners of some of the local minicab firms are in any way true, I'd far prefer my money to go to Uber than them. There will always be dodgy companies in any sector. That doesn't mean they're all bent. Why TfL allowed Uber to operate here with its hailing model is anyones guess. because TfL doesn't get to decide. Ultimately the courts do. and so far, when asked to rule whether Uber complies with the (London mini cab) rules, the courts decided yes. Albeit on a narrow point, and TfL could have continued on a wider point, but they considered it a lost cause. tim |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 16:02:39 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote: On 24/08/2016 15:50, d wrote: There will always be dodgy companies in any sector. That doesn't mean they're all bent. Why TfL allowed Uber to operate here with its hailing model is anyones guess. In thrall to big business presumably. Should we only use minicab firms that run cars that are British made and from British owned firms to avoid some of the purchase price ending up overseas potentially with a firm that doesn't fulfil all its moral tax obligations? What about the provenance of the fuel and other consumables? There's a limit to what one person can do, but if given the choice of 2 pretty similar services - one which pays their tax and one which jumps through all sorts of grey area hoops to avoid it then anyone with a moral conscience should go with option A. I wouldn't out of principle give a penny to Uber. -- Spud |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 16:11:06 +0100
"tim..." wrote: wrote in message ... There will always be dodgy companies in any sector. That doesn't mean they're all bent. Why TfL allowed Uber to operate here with its hailing model is anyones guess. because TfL doesn't get to decide. Ultimately the courts do. and so far, when asked to rule whether Uber complies with the (London mini cab) rules, the courts decided yes. I suppose thats the problem you get when non specialists in a wig get to decide on specialist matters. Albeit on a narrow point, and TfL could have continued on a wider point, but they considered it a lost cause. I get the impression they never really tried. -- Spud |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
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Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On 25.08.16 12:54, David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:51:21PM +0000, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? I use Uber because the local businesses that they compete with, in this case, are ****. They are starting driverless taxi service in Singapore as of Thursday, BTW. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 02:48:12PM -0000, Recliner wrote:
David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 01:26:03PM +0100, Recliner wrote: One obvious reason: it's more expensive IME Uber is cheaper than a local minicab company by around 25%. especially at 'surge' times. OK, I'll grant you that. They're rare though. Lots of people say otherwise. My own journey history says otherwise, but that, of course, isn't a particularly valid survey :-) But then, nor is people bitching about it. Looking through the details of the few journeys I've made where surge pricing was in effect, and where I have a rough idea of how much a non-Uber cab would cost - surge pricing only appears to bring the cost up to that of a non-Uber cab most of the time. - Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in residential areas (just like black cabs). Wrong. There are four, right now, within 500 yards of my flat. I suspect you're near the sort of traffic magnet that attracts Uber drivers. They don't otherwise hang around residential areas. I'd love to know what traffic magnet there is near CR7 8JH during the middle of a working day. - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. And how exactly do they operate the Uber app if they can't see the screen? I take it that you're not familiar with modern smart phones. They'd operate it the same way they'd operate any other app. At least in Apple-land, the Uber app has "Voiceover" enabled. It is apparently fully accessible for blind people. See eg http://www.applevis.com/forum/access...sible-are-they And please note that most "blind" people aren't completely blind. The term covers all kinds of serious visual impairments. Many moons ago this thread was whining about guide dogs. You don't have to have absolutely no sight at all to have a guide dog. -- David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information Blessed are the pessimists, for they test their backups |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:54:21 +0100
David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:51:21PM +0000, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. Apparently you tap on the screen and it tells you whats there. Call me old fashioned but I'm struggling to see how thats easier to use than physical buttons that are always in the same place and easily found by touch. Seems to me they'll be constantly prodding the screen to find the correct piece of information and if any app presents some information as a picture or bitmap then I suspect its screwed. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? I use Uber because the local businesses that they compete with, in this case, are ****. Never had a problem with my local minicab service. They turn up on time and get you where you need to go without taking stupid routes. -- Spud |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
wrote:
On 25.08.16 12:54, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:51:21PM +0000, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? I use Uber because the local businesses that they compete with, in this case, are ****. They are starting driverless taxi service in Singapore as of Thursday, BTW. NuTonomy, not Uber. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:54:21 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:51:21PM +0000, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. Apparently you tap on the screen and it tells you whats there. Call me old fashioned but I'm struggling to see how thats easier to use than physical buttons that are always in the same place and easily found by touch. Seems to me they'll be constantly prodding the screen to find the correct piece of information and if any app presents some information as a picture or bitmap then I suspect its screwed. And I still fail to understand how it will work with a graphical app. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? I use Uber because the local businesses that they compete with, in this case, are ****. Never had a problem with my local minicab service. They turn up on time and get you where you need to go without taking stupid routes. Yup, same here. And when I get Uber's quote for those same journeys, it's always more expensive. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 02:48:12PM -0000, Recliner wrote: David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 01:26:03PM +0100, Recliner wrote: One obvious reason: it's more expensive IME Uber is cheaper than a local minicab company by around 25%. especially at 'surge' times. OK, I'll grant you that. They're rare though. Lots of people say otherwise. My own journey history says otherwise, but that, of course, isn't a particularly valid survey :-) But then, nor is people bitching about it. Looking through the details of the few journeys I've made where surge pricing was in effect, and where I have a rough idea of how much a non-Uber cab would cost - surge pricing only appears to bring the cost up to that of a non-Uber cab most of the time. - Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in residential areas (just like black cabs). Wrong. There are four, right now, within 500 yards of my flat. I suspect you're near the sort of traffic magnet that attracts Uber drivers. They don't otherwise hang around residential areas. I'd love to know what traffic magnet there is near CR7 8JH during the middle of a working day. Thornton Heath station, a Tesco superstore, a shopping parade with restaurants, etc. And, yes, right now an UberX car is shown as 3 mins away. - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. And how exactly do they operate the Uber app if they can't see the screen? I take it that you're not familiar with modern smart phones. I've never needed to enable any sort of voiceover system with mine. They'd operate it the same way they'd operate any other app. At least in Apple-land, the Uber app has "Voiceover" enabled. It is apparently fully accessible for blind people. See eg http://www.applevis.com/forum/access...sible-are-they And please note that most "blind" people aren't completely blind. The term covers all kinds of serious visual impairments. Many moons ago this thread was whining about guide dogs. You don't have to have absolutely no sight at all to have a guide dog. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
"Recliner" wrote in message ... wrote: On 25.08.16 12:54, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:51:21PM +0000, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? I use Uber because the local businesses that they compete with, in this case, are ****. They are starting driverless taxi service in Singapore as of Thursday, BTW. And just for Mr Recliner, advanced booking in London http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37184648 tim |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
"Recliner" wrote in message ... David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 02:48:12PM -0000, Recliner wrote: David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 01:26:03PM +0100, Recliner wrote: One obvious reason: it's more expensive IME Uber is cheaper than a local minicab company by around 25%. especially at 'surge' times. OK, I'll grant you that. They're rare though. Lots of people say otherwise. My own journey history says otherwise, but that, of course, isn't a particularly valid survey :-) But then, nor is people bitching about it. Looking through the details of the few journeys I've made where surge pricing was in effect, and where I have a rough idea of how much a non-Uber cab would cost - surge pricing only appears to bring the cost up to that of a non-Uber cab most of the time. - Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in residential areas (just like black cabs). Wrong. There are four, right now, within 500 yards of my flat. I suspect you're near the sort of traffic magnet that attracts Uber drivers. They don't otherwise hang around residential areas. I'd love to know what traffic magnet there is near CR7 8JH during the middle of a working day. Thornton Heath station, a Tesco superstore, a shopping parade with restaurants, etc. That's hardly a unique profile for suburban London tim |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
tim... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... wrote: On 25.08.16 12:54, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:51:21PM +0000, d wrote: On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:55:08 +0100 David Cantrell wrote: - Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account). The blind people I know actually find a smart phone more useful than a dumb phone. Oh really? And how exactly do they operate a touchscreen, press it randomly and hope for the best? Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. - Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone. Well duh. And how long does it take to install and set up? Not very long at all. It certainly takes less time than it does to find a local minicab office if you don't know the area. The question is - why are you supporting this silicon valley shark instead of local businesses? I use Uber because the local businesses that they compete with, in this case, are ****. They are starting driverless taxi service in Singapore as of Thursday, BTW. And just for Mr Recliner, advanced booking in London http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37184648 Thanks, I hadn't spotted that. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
On 25/08/2016 15:35, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote: And just for Mr Recliner, advanced booking in London http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37184648 Thanks, I hadn't spotted that. Although one thing I noticed from the publicity is that "Surge may apply" - so you book your cab a week in advance to go to the airport and have no idea how much it might cost you! Ouch! |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 25/08/2016 15:35, Recliner wrote: tim... wrote: And just for Mr Recliner, advanced booking in London http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37184648 Thanks, I hadn't spotted that. Although one thing I noticed from the publicity is that "Surge may apply" - so you book your cab a week in advance to go to the airport and have no idea how much it might cost you! Ouch! Yeah, I'd still prefer my local minicab firm. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
In message
-sept ember.org, at 14:15:20 on Thu, 25 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. Apparently you tap on the screen and it tells you whats there. Call me old fashioned but I'm struggling to see how thats easier to use than physical buttons that are always in the same place and easily found by touch. Seems to me they'll be constantly prodding the screen to find the correct piece of information and if any app presents some information as a picture or bitmap then I suspect its screwed. And I still fail to understand how it will work with a graphical app. Perhaps you should try it? Got any rich friends with an iPhone you could borrow for a couple of hours?? -- Roland Perry |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 14:15:20 on Thu, 25 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: Modern smartphones have all kinds of accessibility Stuff. In Apple-land the bit for blind people is called VoiceOver. Apparently you tap on the screen and it tells you whats there. Call me old fashioned but I'm struggling to see how thats easier to use than physical buttons that are always in the same place and easily found by touch. Seems to me they'll be constantly prodding the screen to find the correct piece of information and if any app presents some information as a picture or bitmap then I suspect its screwed. And I still fail to understand how it will work with a graphical app. Perhaps you should try it? Got any rich friends with an iPhone you could borrow for a couple of hours?? It would probably work on one of my iPads. And maybe there's an Android equivalent or two; there usually are. But as it's of no relevance to me, I don't think I'll bother. |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
In message
-sept ember.org, at 16:17:45 on Thu, 25 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: And I still fail to understand how it will work with a graphical app. Perhaps you should try it? Got any rich friends with an iPhone you could borrow for a couple of hours?? It would probably work on one of my iPads. And maybe there's an Android equivalent or two; there usually are. But as it's of no relevance to me, I don't think I'll bother. If you are happy to fail to understand, then don't bleat about it here. -- Roland Perry |
Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 16:17:45 on Thu, 25 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked: And I still fail to understand how it will work with a graphical app. Perhaps you should try it? Got any rich friends with an iPhone you could borrow for a couple of hours?? It would probably work on one of my iPads. And maybe there's an Android equivalent or two; there usually are. But as it's of no relevance to me, I don't think I'll bother. If you are happy to fail to understand, then don't bleat about it here. Looks really easy for a blind person, doesn't it: https://help.uber.com/h/902465fa-f22...4-59940446e792 |
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