Roastmasters. The worst?
 

I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues
with exhaust venting.

The seats were extremely narrow and uncomfortable; While it would
probably benefit me to lose a couple of kilos, as with many people, I am
not grossly overweight.

The promised A/C doesn't work, and fare evasion can be rife. Indeed, I
thought that one of the many reasons for being rid of Bendis was to
combat fare evasion.

I also understand that the cost of these busses came in well above what
something like a Volvo would cost.

IMHO, this has to be one of the worst passenger vehicles plying London's
roads these days, making the bendibus look good in comparison.

The design that they have now should have either gone through several
additional iterations, been a mock up as part of an exhibition called
"Transport of the Future" in some place like London's Design Museum or
simply remained a concept drawing as part of a design studio's PR action.

In any event, the fiasco that is the current Roastmaster has likely
killed off any prospect of getting a new Routemaster on London's road
any time in the foreseeable future.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 18/09/2016 15:16, wrote:
I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it is
safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues with
exhaust venting.

The seats were extremely narrow and uncomfortable; While it would probably
benefit me to lose a couple of kilos, as with many people, I am not
grossly overweight.

The promised A/C doesn't work, and fare evasion can be rife. Indeed, I
thought that one of the many reasons for being rid of Bendis was to combat
fare evasion.

I also understand that the cost of these busses came in well above what
something like a Volvo would cost.

IMHO, this has to be one of the worst passenger vehicles plying London's
roads these days, making the bendibus look good in comparison.

The design that they have now should have either gone through several
additional iterations, been a mock up as part of an exhibition called
"Transport of the Future" in some place like London's Design Museum or
simply remained a concept drawing as part of a design studio's PR action.

In any event, the fiasco that is the current Roastmaster has likely killed
off any prospect of getting a new Routemaster on London's road any time in
the foreseeable future.

Although I have been only a handful of times on a Borisbus, I too rate the
design of the passenger cabins as poor. On the lower deck, I dislike all
those backward-facing seats, and the upper deck I find claustrophobic
owing to the low roof. I have become accustomed to the much roomier and
bigger-windowed double-deckers used elsewhere, e.g., on route 263.

And yes, I agree, the seats are uncomfortable.

Patruus

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-18 14:16:41 +0000, said:

I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster
(a.k.a. Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

fare evasion can be rife.

I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Once it is legal to have remotely monitored barriers at completely
unstaffed stations the DLR can be barriered and I am sure it will be.
It is nothing more than an automated light rail version of the Tube.

As for these buses, once they give up on conductors they can easily be
reverted to the standard "on at the front, off at the back" approach.
Mark the staircases as one way to make it work even better.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 18/09/2016 21:44, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

It helps, yes, but it does not solve the issue. I dare say you have not
been on them in the hot weather over the summer. They are hotter than
other buses, even with the retro-fitted windows, no doubt.


I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Once it is legal to have remotely monitored barriers at completely
unstaffed stations the DLR can be barriered and I am sure it will be.
It is nothing more than an automated light rail version of the Tube.

As for these buses, once they give up on conductors they can easily be
reverted to the standard "on at the front, off at the back" approach.
Mark the staircases as one way to make it work even better.

Er, they have given up on conductors, and many routes that have had 'New
Routemasters' introduced on them never had conductors whatsoever. Plus
of course the conductors never checked the tickets, they were basically
just there to guard the open rear platform.

Boris made a big thing of saying 'Londoners want hop-on-hop-off open
platform buses, and that is what they shall have'... but that's not what
many people on NBfL routes ever got. But then again it was something
Boris said, so doesn't mean anything.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

Neil Williams wrote on 18 Sep 2016 at
21:44 ...
On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

Windows have not been fitted to any Roastmaster that I've used yet.
Another feature that annoys me is the rear door that hits passengers
waiting to get off as it opens. It ran over my foot the other day. It's
a terrible design.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

eastender writes:


I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

[1] I thought that they had already gone but when I was in London at the
end of last month, the only Boris Bus I travelled on had a conductor[2]
and the rear platform doors were open.

[2] I am assuming that the man, with a TfL logo on his shirt, standing
on the rear platform throughout my journey was the conductor.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

Graham Murray wrote:
eastender writes:


I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

[1] I thought that they had already gone but when I was in London at the
end of last month, the only Boris Bus I travelled on had a conductor[2]
and the rear platform doors were open.

[2] I am assuming that the man, with a TfL logo on his shirt, standing
on the rear platform throughout my journey was the conductor.

They are not conductors, of course. They're 'platform attendants'. Their
sole job is to try and persuade passenger not to jump off moving buses, or
ones stopped in the middle of traffic. Perhaps their presence persuaded
more people to touch in, but that wasn't their role, and no-one supervised
the middle doors.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 18/09/2016 21:54, Richard J. wrote:

Neil Williams wrote on 18 Sep 2016 at
21:44 ...
On 2016-09-18 19:45:54 +0000, eastender said:

I find them quiet and comfortable and haven't been on one where it was
too hot. They really aren't that bad.

Agreed. I have no problem with them now the windows have been fitted
(nice big sliding ones, too, not poxy little hopper ventilators) to
solve the aircon issue.

Windows have not been fitted to any Roastmaster that I've used yet.
Another feature that annoys me is the rear door that hits passengers
waiting to get off as it opens. It ran over my foot the other day. It's
a terrible design.


The windows started to appear this summer, I think I first saw them in
July. They are a long way from being a universal fitting so far.

I've been intending to post about this 'innovation' but afraid I never
got round to it :-(


The newest Roastmaster buses have a sliding rear door - i.e. one that
cannot function as an open platform.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 18/09/2016 21:58, Graham Murray wrote:

eastender writes:

I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

Bit difficult to do with a paper ticket!

(I recall a bendy bus driver deciding he didn't like the look of someone
who had got on at the middle door and hadn't touched in. He said
something over the PA, and the slightly befuddled passenger walked up to
the front and showed the driver his paper Travelcard.)

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 18/09/2016 22:24, Recliner wrote:

Graham Murray wrote:
[...]
I always pay my fare of course. I can't see how you can eliminate
evasion easily on these buses or the DLR.

Do not get rid of the conductors[1] and make it part of their duties to
observe that everyone boarding via the middle or rear door touches in
and the green light shows.

[1] I thought that they had already gone but when I was in London at the
end of last month, the only Boris Bus I travelled on had a conductor[2]
and the rear platform doors were open.

[2] I am assuming that the man, with a TfL logo on his shirt, standing
on the rear platform throughout my journey was the conductor.

They are not conductors, of course. They're 'platform attendants'. Their
sole job is to try and persuade passenger not to jump off moving buses, or
ones stopped in the middle of traffic. Perhaps their presence persuaded
more people to touch in, but that wasn't their role, and no-one supervised
the middle doors.


I recall one looking slightly alarmed as I ran and jumped on to an
accelerating bus, something I did that plenty of times on the old
Routemasters.

(I also learnt my lesson as a kid that jumping off a Routemaster too
early wasn't such a great idea! We used to have a bit of a competition
to see who was the most daring...)

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-18 20:53:41 +0000, Mizter T said:

It helps, yes, but it does not solve the issue. I dare say you have not
been on them in the hot weather over the summer. They are hotter than
other buses, even with the retro-fitted windows, no doubt.

I have and it was warm, but I do think the windows will solve much of
the issue.

Er, they have given up on conductors, and many routes that have had
'New Routemasters' introduced on them never had conductors whatsoever.
Plus of course the conductors never checked the tickets, they were
basically just there to guard the open rear platform.

They haven't all been withdrawn yet, I believe. Once they are, and
only then, you can convert back to front boarding, as really it needs
to be consistent. I think it would work particularly well on a bus
with a true rear door (so no disbenefit to moving all the way down),
with the middle really being for wheelchair use.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-18 20:54:50 +0000, Richard J. said:

Windows have not been fitted to any Roastmaster that I've used yet.
Another feature that annoys me is the rear door that hits passengers
waiting to get off as it opens. It ran over my foot the other day.
It's a terrible design.

I believe newer OPO-only versions have a plug door, I'd imagine this
can be retrofitted, again once conductor operation ceases permanently.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-18 22:33:37 +0000, Mizter T said:

Bit difficult to do with a paper ticket!

You're meant to board at the front if you have a paper ticket, but
experience suggests the London bus driver mentality continues to be not
to give a monkey's about revenue, so nothing is done about it.

(I recall a bendy bus driver deciding he didn't like the look of
someone who had got on at the middle door and hadn't touched in. He
said something over the PA, and the slightly befuddled passenger walked
up to the front and showed the driver his paper Travelcard.)

Unusual :)

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 19/09/2016 08:41, Neil Williams wrote:

On 2016-09-18 22:33:37 +0000, Mizter T said:

Bit difficult to do with a paper ticket!

You're meant to board at the front if you have a paper ticket, but
experience suggests the London bus driver mentality continues to be not
to give a monkey's about revenue, so nothing is done about it.

No you're not.

Only those with Saver tickets (no longer sold) need to board at the
front, and present the tear-off half to the driver.

See the sign on the door he
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/717/20036305714_6862073c64_o_d.jpg

New Routemaster drivers have no role in checking tickets apart from
collecting the chits from the Saver tickets that is.


(I recall a bendy bus driver deciding he didn't like the look of
someone who had got on at the middle door and hadn't touched in. He
said something over the PA, and the slightly befuddled passenger
walked up to the front and showed the driver his paper Travelcard.)

Unusual :)

Yep, I couldn't see anything objectionable about the passenger either.
Driver having a bad day perhaps.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

In another thread that I am unable to find a poster mentioned the button, once used by the second warm-bodied staff-human on the bus to open the rear doors.

On a normal bus one is definitely not meant to use the button positioned over the doors in the middle of the bus to egrete oneself from the bus in traffic, or anywhere.

But is one allowed to use the rear door button on a roastmaster? Is it "allowed", and if so, where is it?

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Sunday, 18 September 2016 15:16:44 UTC+1, wrote:
I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues
with exhaust venting.

The Roastmaster is not fantastic but I think it has some good points. I think they are quieter than normal buses and they don't lurch around as much; normal buses seem to have only an emergency brake, giving the impression that the driver is constantly rehearsing the very first part of a handbrake turn.

I also liked the internal colours of brass and deep red, and the two staircases. The idea of the three doors was very good. It made boarding and alighting much quicker.

So it was not ALL bad.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-19 09:00:28 +0000, Offramp said:

In another thread that I am unable to find a poster mentioned the
button, once used by the second warm-bodied staff-human on the bus to
open the rear doors.

On a normal bus one is definitely not meant to use the button
positioned over the doors in the middle of the bus to egrete oneself
from the bus in traffic, or anywhere.

But is one allowed to use the rear door button on a roastmaster? Is it
"allowed", and if so, where is it?

If running with a conductor, the door is left open.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT)
Offramp wrote:
The Roastmaster is not fantastic but I think it has some good points. I thi=
nk they are quieter than normal buses and they don't lurch around as much; =

I've never driven a bus but I have driven HGVs and when they're empty the
brakes require a bit of finesse unless you want to do an almost emergency
stop because they're set up to brake well at maximum load. I wonder if an
almost empty bus has the same issues even though the max load as a percentage
of the unladed weight is less.

normal buses seem to have only an emergency brake, giving the impression th=
at the driver is constantly rehearsing the very first part of a handbrake t=
urn.=20

There are seemingly a lot of **** bus drivers working in London in my
experience. A lot of them don't give a toss if people are halfway up or down
the stairs when they accelerate or brake. Probably why you never see many
elderly upstairs even if they can walk ok.

--
Spud

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:37:12 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT)
Offramp wrote:
The Roastmaster is not fantastic but I think it has some good points. I thi=
nk they are quieter than normal buses and they don't lurch around as much; =

I've never driven a bus but I have driven HGVs and when they're empty the
brakes require a bit of finesse unless you want to do an almost emergency
stop because they're set up to brake well at maximum load. I wonder if an
almost empty bus has the same issues even though the max load as a percentage
of the unladed weight is less.

normal buses seem to have only an emergency brake, giving the impression th=
at the driver is constantly rehearsing the very first part of a handbrake t=
urn.=20

There are seemingly a lot of **** bus drivers working in London in my
experience. A lot of them don't give a toss if people are halfway up or down
the stairs when they accelerate or brake. Probably why you never see many
elderly upstairs even if they can walk ok.

How do the drivers know if anyone is on the stairs?

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:43:42 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2016-09-19 09:00:28 +0000, Offramp said:

In another thread that I am unable to find a poster mentioned the
button, once used by the second warm-bodied staff-human on the bus to
open the rear doors.

On a normal bus one is definitely not meant to use the button
positioned over the doors in the middle of the bus to egrete oneself
from the bus in traffic, or anywhere.

But is one allowed to use the rear door button on a roastmaster? Is it
"allowed", and if so, where is it?

If running with a conductor, the door is left open.

Indeed, that's the whole point of the platform attendant.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:02:39 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 10:37:12 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:
There are seemingly a lot of **** bus drivers working in London in my
experience. A lot of them don't give a toss if people are halfway up or down
the stairs when they accelerate or brake. Probably why you never see many
elderly upstairs even if they can walk ok.

How do the drivers know if anyone is on the stairs?

Mirrors. They can see the top deck and so will know if someone is coming
down or hasn't yet got up there. Plus I imagine they can hear the footsteps
too since on a normal DD they're right behind the cab.

--
Spud

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Monday, 19 September 2016 15:11:33 UTC+1, wrote:

How do the drivers know if anyone is on the stairs?

Mirrors. They can see the top deck and so will know if someone is coming
down or hasn't yet got up there. Plus I imagine they can hear the footsteps
too since on a normal DD they're right behind the cab.

LOL! Is that the first thing they think about? They don't give a toss!

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 08:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
Offramp wrote:
On Monday, 19 September 2016 15:11:33 UTC+1, wrote:

How do the drivers know if anyone is on the stairs?

Mirrors. They can see the top deck and so will know if someone is coming
down or hasn't yet got up there. Plus I imagine they can hear the footsteps
too since on a normal DD they're right behind the cab.

LOL! Is that the first thing they think about? They don't give a toss!

Thats the point - they don't give a stuff. But I'm just saying they've got no
excuse not to know if anyone is on the stairs.

--
Spud

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-30 15:34:43 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Oh well nice to see I am not alone in finding Roastmasters nausea
inducing heaps. I refuse to use them so my central London travels and
bus usage have fallen off a cliff as a result. Still I am in the
position to make that choice but many people are not.

I know you don't like the physical bus, on which I differ, but I don't
get the arguments about fare evasion. The operating method of a bus is
totally separate, once you take the rear platform and conductor out,
from what the bus looks like. TfL could decide tomorrow that they will
revert them to "on at the front, off at the back", just as they could
do with bendies and rigid single deckers if they wished. Indeed, the
door all the way at the rear would make that style of operation work
better than other buses, as people will happily move down if they don't
think they'll get blocked from getting off by crowds.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

In message of Fri, 30 Sep
2016 16:34:43 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 15:16:41 +0100, "
wrote:

I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues
with exhaust venting.

The seats were extremely narrow and uncomfortable; While it would
probably benefit me to lose a couple of kilos, as with many people, I am
not grossly overweight.

The promised A/C doesn't work, and fare evasion can be rife. Indeed, I
thought that one of the many reasons for being rid of Bendis was to
combat fare evasion.

I also understand that the cost of these busses came in well above what
something like a Volvo would cost.

IMHO, this has to be one of the worst passenger vehicles plying London's
roads these days, making the bendibus look good in comparison.

The design that they have now should have either gone through several
additional iterations, been a mock up as part of an exhibition called
"Transport of the Future" in some place like London's Design Museum or
simply remained a concept drawing as part of a design studio's PR action.

In any event, the fiasco that is the current Roastmaster has likely
killed off any prospect of getting a new Routemaster on London's road
any time in the foreseeable future.

Oh well nice to see I am not alone in finding Roastmasters nausea
inducing heaps. I refuse to use them so my central London travels and
bus usage have fallen off a cliff as a result. Still I am in the
position to make that choice but many people are not.

Even though we are nearing the end of NB4L production (hooray) the
wretched things are to be inflicted on two routes, 48 and 76, that I
do use from Central London if I don't fancy a train or a tube ride. So
that's two more bus routes that I can't use come next year.


Where do you find the plans to change 48 and 76 to NB4L?
I don't like them. I find mountaineering into seats at the back of the
lower deck unreasonable. The handle bars on the front stairs have a
horizontal bar, which forces one to let go and try again.

I can find the registration numbers of approaching buses with the "Bus
Times" Android app. It is better than 90% reliable.
Do you know how to locate a particular bus?
I reported a fault, yesterday. (The registration number did not appear
on either deck's comments poster.) I trust I will get a "fixed" response
and want to check it.
--
Walter Briscoe

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

I can find the registration numbers of approaching buses with the "Bus
Times" Android app. It is better than 90% reliable.
Do you know how to locate a particular bus?
I reported a fault, yesterday. (The registration number did not appear
on either deck's comments poster.) I trust I will get a "fixed" response
and want to check it.

A minor advantage of the New Routemasters is that they are the first London
buses for many years with fleet numbers matching registration marks due to
all having Northern Ireland marks.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

One got so hot it burst into flames
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37534973
--
Bryan Morris

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

In article ,
() wrote:

On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 18:42:47 +0100, Bryan Morris
wrote:

One got so hot it burst into flames
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37534973

Before you get too excited look at the photos of the front, especially
the headlights..
That model is not what has become known as Roastmaster.

My thoughts exactly. The registration and fleet number location aren't right
for a New Routemaster either. Which other buses have that front and
staircase styling now?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 30.09.16 16:34, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 15:16:41 +0100, "
wrote:

I had the distinct ... erm ... pleasure of riding on Roastmaster (a.k.a.
Borisbus) the other day.

I am neither a designer nor an automotive engineer, but I think that it
is safe to say that this is a poorly designed vehicle pretty much by
anybody's standards and that this is also what happens when you push
through a vanity project. Where was the oversight committee on this?

I was on one bus that had openable windows on its upper deck, though I
still felt extremely nauseous. I did this after the heatwave and I don't
easily get motion sickness, thus making me wonder if there are issues
with exhaust venting.

The seats were extremely narrow and uncomfortable; While it would
probably benefit me to lose a couple of kilos, as with many people, I am
not grossly overweight.

The promised A/C doesn't work, and fare evasion can be rife. Indeed, I
thought that one of the many reasons for being rid of Bendis was to
combat fare evasion.

I also understand that the cost of these busses came in well above what
something like a Volvo would cost.

IMHO, this has to be one of the worst passenger vehicles plying London's
roads these days, making the bendibus look good in comparison.

The design that they have now should have either gone through several
additional iterations, been a mock up as part of an exhibition called
"Transport of the Future" in some place like London's Design Museum or
simply remained a concept drawing as part of a design studio's PR action.

In any event, the fiasco that is the current Roastmaster has likely
killed off any prospect of getting a new Routemaster on London's road
any time in the foreseeable future.

Oh well nice to see I am not alone in finding Roastmasters nausea
inducing heaps.

Is there an indeed an issue with exhaust venting on them? I can ride any
other bus without a problem -- upper- and lower-deck -- and not feel any
nausea.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 30.09.16 18:52, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-09-30 15:34:43 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Oh well nice to see I am not alone in finding Roastmasters nausea
inducing heaps. I refuse to use them so my central London travels and
bus usage have fallen off a cliff as a result. Still I am in the
position to make that choice but many people are not.

I know you don't like the physical bus, on which I differ,

The design is cool, I will agree, though practical use is another
matter, IMHO.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 02.10.16 19:04, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 18:42:47 +0100, Bryan Morris
wrote:

One got so hot it burst into flames
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37534973

Before you get too excited look at the photos of the front, especially
the headlights..
That model is not what has become known as Roastmaster.

G.Harman

Not a Roastmaster.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 02/10/2016 19:37, wrote:

In article ,
() wrote:

On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 18:42:47 +0100, Bryan Morris
wrote:

One got so hot it burst into flames
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37534973

Before you get too excited look at the photos of the front, especially
the headlights..
That model is not what has become known as Roastmaster.

My thoughts exactly. The registration and fleet number location aren't right
for a New Routemaster either. Which other buses have that front and
staircase styling now?


It's an Alexander Dennis Enviro400H City model, which is a hybrid:
http://www.alexander-dennis.com/prod...viro400h-city/

The windowed staircase in particular is familiar from the NBFL design,
as are the curved front windows.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 2016-09-30 15:34:43 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

Even though we are nearing the end of NB4L production (hooray) the
wretched things are to be inflicted on two routes, 48 and 76, that I
do use from Central London if I don't fancy a train or a tube ride. So
that's two more bus routes that I can't use come next year.

Well we like them. The 76 is our local bus - when is it switching?

E.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 08:58:11 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Fri, 30 Sep
2016 16:34:43 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield

Even though we are nearing the end of NB4L production (hooray) the
wretched things are to be inflicted on two routes, 48 and 76, that I
do use from Central London if I don't fancy a train or a tube ride. So
that's two more bus routes that I can't use come next year.


Where do you find the plans to change 48 and 76 to NB4L?

I participate in forums where the tender results are announced almost
as soon as the info is released inside TfL. I also usually get to see
the official award notice. That's how I know about things like
vehicle type conversions. With the 48 and 76 the operators are also
changing with Arriva taking on the 48 from Ash Grove and London
General the 76 from Northumberland Park. Bang goes decades of
accumulated operating experience with the existing operators but hey
that's the tendering system for you.

Is it like railway TOCs, where most of the staff and management stay put
when the ownership of the franchise changes? If so, most of the operational
experience shouldn't be lost.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

On 18.10.16 15:21, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 08:58:11 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Fri, 30 Sep
2016 16:34:43 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield

Even though we are nearing the end of NB4L production (hooray) the
wretched things are to be inflicted on two routes, 48 and 76, that I
do use from Central London if I don't fancy a train or a tube ride. So
that's two more bus routes that I can't use come next year.


Where do you find the plans to change 48 and 76 to NB4L?

I participate in forums where the tender results are announced almost
as soon as the info is released inside TfL. I also usually get to see
the official award notice. That's how I know about things like
vehicle type conversions. With the 48 and 76 the operators are also
changing with Arriva taking on the 48 from Ash Grove and London
General the 76 from Northumberland Park. Bang goes decades of
accumulated operating experience with the existing operators but hey
that's the tendering system for you.

Sounds like my friend at one office where he worked.

There were several people there who were quite professional, experienced
and put out a very good product. Then, for whatever reason, management
chased out all the managers and put someone in who had no experience in
the field. That individual was not properly qualified, blindly followed
upper management's orders and pushed out all the experienced people in
favour of 20-somethings.

Needless to say, the quality of that company's product sharply declined.
This also meant that earlier buyers were going elsewhere for the
product. Upper management refused to believe that they were the reason
why this happened, and instead either blamed everybody else or simply
employed doublethink when the numbers were staring right in their face.

Roastmasters. The worst?
 

In message of Tue, 18 Oct
2016 18:41:48 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes

This is not directly relevant, but is typical of mismatches between bus
services on the ground and on tfl.gov.uk/buses. https://tfl.gov.uk/mode
s/buses/?cid=buses contains a rectangle entitled "Bus service changes"
which has a link to https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/bus-
service-changes.pdf
Several routes now run between different termini. The lists of stops do
not reflect those changes.

OTOH, they eventually updated the 78 stop list to reflect the
consequences of the Tower Bridge closure.

Operators and CentreComm seem REALLY good at tracking road changes.
There seems little effort to keep service information correct on the web
site.
--
Walter Briscoe