On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 4:37:22 PM UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
07:57:51 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016, remarked:

Daily Mail now reporting:

'It happened on a sharp bend on the approach to Sandilands tram stop..'

Which is consistent with another comment:

'As we looked down on the tram it was on its right hand side'


From Sandilands the track descends steeply

Which isn't "approching Sandilands"

and splits in two, where it joins the route of the former Woodside and
South Croydon Railway. By the look of the overhead shot, it was
possibly taking the righthand track and came off.

Which would leave it rolled over on its *left* side.

The fog of war continues to waft across the scene.
--
Roland Perry

It seems to have come to rest inside the overhead line support for the righthand track, but on it's righthand side. Given that if it was going left, it would have been on the lefthand side and going right would have needed to traverse the points of what looks like a single slip at the junction, it must have derailed either at the points or been going too fast. Another possibility is it could have been coming the other way, from the lefthand track, derailed at the points and slid back down the slope, overturning when it hit the split in the track direction. Can't see that one myself though.

Neill

On 09-Nov-16 2:19 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:56:48 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016, Roland Perry remarked:
The Guardian are quoting a TfL source as saying
"the incident happened inside a tunnel" -
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ped-40-injured


Which suggests it was running north towards Sandilands Station and
something had happened inside the tunnel.

Frustrating that there's no definite reporting of its direction.

Daily Mail now reporting:

'It happened on a sharp bend on the approach to Sandilands tram stop.'

Which is consistent with another comment:

'As we looked down on the tram it was on its right hand side'


You can see the line on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhuogCAh6Pg about 14 minutes in.

From the other direction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAEOpIxckl8
About 32 minutes in.

Almost certain speed, driver or leaf fall?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2016\11\09 15:57, wrote:

I'm not familiar with braking systems on that system.

If the driver's asleep, there aren't any.

On 09.11.16 18:16, Tony Dragon wrote:
On 09-Nov-16 2:19 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:56:48 on Wed, 9 Nov
2016, Roland Perry remarked:
The Guardian are quoting a TfL source as saying
"the incident happened inside a tunnel" -
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ped-40-injured



Which suggests it was running north towards Sandilands Station and
something had happened inside the tunnel.

Frustrating that there's no definite reporting of its direction.

Daily Mail now reporting:

'It happened on a sharp bend on the approach to Sandilands tram stop.'

Which is consistent with another comment:

'As we looked down on the tram it was on its right hand side'


You can see the line on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhuogCAh6Pg about 14 minutes in.

From the other direction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAEOpIxckl8
About 32 minutes in.

Almost certain speed, driver or leaf fall?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Is there not some sort of ATP or speed control system in such an event
on the Tramlink? IIRC, there are timed signals along the line.

In message , at 18:55:42 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
" remarked:

Almost certain speed,

RAIB have dropped a huge hint about that.

driver or leaf fall?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Is there not some sort of ATP or speed control system in such an event
on the Tramlink? IIRC, there are timed signals along the line.

TPWS-for-trams, anyone?
--
Roland Perry

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 7:10:56 PM UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:55:42 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
" remarked:

Almost certain speed,

RAIB have dropped a huge hint about that.

driver or leaf fall?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Is there not some sort of ATP or speed control system in such an event
on the Tramlink? IIRC, there are timed signals along the line.

TPWS-for-trams, anyone?
--
Roland Perry

The latest from the BBC is that it was a Wimbledon-bound train that derailed after taking a 12mph corner too fast. Explains why the driver has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter. They are also investigating if he was asleep. Apparently trams aren't fitted with devices to apply the brakes if travelling too fast.

Neill

On 2016-11-09 18:17:03 +0000, Basil Jet said:

If the driver's asleep, there aren't any.

Trams are essentially road vehicles that happen to run on rails -
safety standards are by and large similar.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:53:30 +0000
" wrote:
On 09.11.16 19:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:55:42 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
" remarked:

Almost certain speed,

RAIB have dropped a huge hint about that.

driver or leaf fall?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Is there not some sort of ATP or speed control system in such an event
on the Tramlink? IIRC, there are timed signals along the line.

TPWS-for-trams, anyone?
Doesn't sound like such a bad idea, under the circumstances.

I'm surprised such systems arn't installed already on trams like croydon
that are essentially railways in all but name.

--
Spud

In message , at 13:51:45 on Thu, 10 Nov
2016, d remarked:

Is there not some sort of ATP or speed control system in such an event
on the Tramlink? IIRC, there are timed signals along the line.

TPWS-for-trams, anyone?
Doesn't sound like such a bad idea, under the circumstances.

I'm surprised such systems arn't installed already on trams like croydon
that are essentially railways in all but name.

Will these unfortunate deaths be included in the otherwise minimal stats
for "UK Rail Passenger Fatalities"?
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 16:54:07 +0000
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-11-10 13:51:45 +0000, d said:

I'm surprised such systems arn't installed already on trams like croydon
that are essentially railways in all but name.

Quite the opposite - Metrolink, for example, despite being very much a
"railway in all but name" on some sections, is in the process of (or
may have completed) converting to operate under tramway regulations,
i.e. drive on sight. So legally more like an electric bus that happens
to have rails.

That sounds like a retrograde step to me. Unlike a bus a train can't swerve out
of the way if there's an obstruction ahead the driver missed and as we have
seen, toppling over on a curve is a possibly. A bus would just skid.

Where are Health and Safety when they're actually needed?

--
Spud